Christmas Christ-Mas

Santa

.....

Something I find interesting....

a person whom you never meet, (in reality) and never really see, who gives you presents.
So you get something from someone you've never met,
much like this salvation we're supposed to be recieving from someone we've never met.

Now my arguement/"conspiracy"

Why do we teach children that this person exists... Yes yes, granted the child gets excited around christmas time and has this false joy to see an individual.

Children grow up thinking adults know everything, or mostly everything on earth or around it.

Children are NOT stupid, they understand deeply they are being lied to, but they see the excitement the adult experiences so they mentally ignore the fact they've seen Santa at a million different functions in one shopping day, or in the case of a large mall 2 Santas in the same place.
Who is wrong ?
Why teach our child about something like that? Why not explain it the way we understand it, we don't tell our children "Ummmm Bite on that rock, its bread" because we've learnt otherwise, if that kid was starving and you told them that, and they apparently never knew "rocks were bread" they'd get excited now knowing this... But the whole Christmas thing is blown up, why? for economy and for adults who get substantial time off of work, and Christmas bonuses.
Who are we really lying to? Children realize there is no Santa but ignore it because they are passers-by, they go with the flow, like yawning or laughing, they do it unwillingly.

Was Santa made to instill the thought that Jesus doesn't exist? or never existed? is this someones preconcieved game-plan?
Because thats a form of brainwashing, it makes us unwillingly, unconciously deny something under relation, because our minds tend to relate symbols when unknown symbols are presented.
Do you think its proper to outright lie to your children for your own selfish needs to see your child happy, did you ask them if they wanted to be a part of it? part of the known living lies.
Heck, everyday could be christmas if we stopped being herded...
I for one don't like being lied to, Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Matthew 18:5-6 And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.

What are your thoughts?

Edit:Spelling

[edit on 5/12/04 by dnero6911]

Well I, for one, think ALL holidays are a bunch of hooie. I'm no scrooge, and I still enjoy the Christmas season, even though I'm not even Christian. Christmas, itself, is supposedly to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and we supposedly give gifts to people to represent the gifts of Frankinsence and Myrrh (sp?) and whatnot given to the baby Jesus. Santa Claus apparently represents Saint Nick, who I believe was a Catholic saint who was famous for being very giving or something.

No doubt the holiday season is a HUGE business opportunity for all those tyrannical businesses out there, but I don't know about it being a conspiracy thing. Like I said, holidays to me are an invention of society, if not for a way to make money, maybe they were just invented to get employers to give their employees days off. Or maybe kids invented holidays to get out of school more. I don't think it has anything to do with convincing people Jesus didn't exist. Why we teach kids Santa really exists? I'm not really sure. Humans seem to like to make things fantastical and mystical and...well, FUN! I dunno. I think your theory is interesting. But I think ultimately it just comes down to the fact that it makes Christmas a little more fun.

Study humans though, the concepts and symbols, human nature, human reason.
Because its fun doesn't work for me. Everydays fun.

EDIT: and yes I know all the history behind it, but thats not my point.

[edit on 5/12/04 by dnero6911]

im no religious person

in my family, christmas is just a time when family gathers to spend some time together, and exchange gifts, and have a great feast.

To me, its just one of those holidays that are there just for a reason to partaaay

no offense to any religious people intended....

I love Yule time (Christmas) It's funny how many of you started or mentioned in your post that you aren't Christian...well Christmas really isn't all that Christian anyway...no where doe it tell you to celebrate his birth...aaaaanyway..I like the giving attitude of the season and wish it was more that way all year long. I really get a big thrill out of giving gifts to others...it's fun! I love to see a surprised look on their face! Plus it comes in the winter time....my favorite season as I hate hot weather.

There are 3 reasons...

1. Marketing, most santa promotion is done by business wanting your money.

2. We don't have many cultural festivals that are "non religious" this one is innocent and painless.

3. Because people don't want to think about the REAL signifigence of christmas, as it threatens their belief structure.

1. Because all parents raise their children like that

2. Because they were raised the same way.

3. Because it is another very good way to "marazmatize-discipline" the kids - be good or Santa won't come.

4. Because grown-ups who spent all their life like one 9-5 work day, sometimes want to feel this special Christmas-spirit. And want to mock this feeling onto their children, not understanding that they feel like it every day.

5. And, of course, for companies to sell all the presents.

Ok, a little joke on the subject
There is time when you believe in Santa.
Then comes the time when you do not believe in Santa.
Then comes the time when you are Santa.

By the way, what does make one a Christian and what does not?

Good Luck!

[edit on 7-12-2004 by bratok]

Originally posted by bratok
1. Because all parents raise their children like that

2. Because they were raised the same way.

3. Because it is another very good way to "marazmatize-discipline" the kids - be good or Santa won't come.

4. Because grown-ups who spent all their life like one 9-5 work day, sometimes want to feel this special Christmas-spirit. And want to mock this feeling onto their children, not understanding that they feel like it every day.

5. And, of course, for companies to sell all the presents.

Ok, a little joke on the subject
There is time when you believe in Santa.
Then comes the time when you do not believe in Santa.
Then comes the time when you are Santa.

By the way, what does make one a Christian and what does not?

Good Luck!

[edit on 7-12-2004 by bratok]

Claiming you are.. lol Goes to show you some people sure think highly of themselves.. hahaha humble people? .. lol haha

But on the Santa thing. . I mean was this idea of Santa a revision of something older, something meant to destablize our mindset and deeper seed doubt? Why lie? ... its a ridiculus subject.. Things have to change someday, I hope its soon.

O brother its so funny how we look at these thing from our moderen point of view . Lets go back in time 200 years now in the larger citys life is very much like our own mostly because these plently withing walking distance.
(ps citys meaning any place with over 20,000 people back then only a few citys had over a million most larger citys were 100,000.
now most of us lived in the country back then the world revolved around the farms not the citys as farming was much more primitive it took ten times the amount of farms to suport the citys.
Now because we are now farmer joe most of us live miles from the nearest town ten even twenty to you this means NOTHING to them a trip to town was a major outing . twenty miles = two days travel by horse and buggy .
try going on a two day trip in your car everday and you will understand there problem.And still it would be easer for you as theres a gas station at ever off ramp.
so your now for all intents Stuck there for months at a time only going into town for supplys and during harvest to sell your produce.
and to top it off once winter comes and theres three feet of snow your not going anyware for the rest of the winter .(I do hope you stocked up)
No boats no radios not a singial luxery no new paper dilvered by the local boys No bikes . no tv no electricty . well now at this point any thing you can come up with to brake the montine would be good ha? all of a sudden your taking the smallest excauses to have fun and christmass easter spring planting the fall fairs become the MAJOR events in your life .Heck the only events in your life .Poor wife cant even gossipe with nebiers living a mile away.
The companies dident creat this we did the companies just modernised it.Now with all our moderen conviences the holidays are no longer as important and people have started moving away from them more.
but if you were once again stuck in the same room for months at a time looking at the same people with no out side contact christmass would suddenly take on more meaning once again even if it was another name.
the morel to the story we have the luxery of over anlizing these things .thoes people only had time to work and work hard so the play time was much more important to them . 200 years agaio none of us would have sat around for hours a day just playing like we are doing here. we would have been working. Even in the citys there was no such thing as an 8 hour work day. 10 or 12 was averge 6 days a week and farm life was even more labor.And if you refused to do this you starved or if you couldent do it you starved . This my friends is what science has done for you.

Santa or not, the children will be excited about Christmas if you choose to celebrate it and dissociate your practices from either religion and the idiocy that is Santa Claus.
It doesn't matter.

In my opinion, what's more important is realising just how much corporations profit off that one day. It's important to realise how it's made to seem that you're obligated to buy things for family, friends, etc.
While I don't celebrate Christmas per se (I'm not religiour, nor do I perpetuate the Santa Calus myth to my child), I do give gifts on or around that day. For the most part, they're handmade thoughtful presents or presents that are genuinely useful (or conducive to learning in the case of my daughter) to a select few. I also do the same thing randomly throughout the year for the same people to show I don't just love ya and care about you on the one prescribed day, but all year long.

That's just me, tho.

I've thought about your opening statement over and over...and can find only one flaw. If I'm reading your statement right, every kid lied to about Santa, The Easter Bunny, Ground Hog Day, The first Thanksgiving of 1650, And Paul Revere's ride, should by rights be a full-blown atheist well before he/she is out of High School. Here's the shocker. According to everything I've read and experienced...you're right!

BUT...talk to those same kids in about five years, and ask what they think of when you mention Christmas and odds are, the birth of our savior falls right in there with gifts and family.

Don't you find it odd that these kids invariably hold on to the notion that there was, indeed, a Jesus and he was indeed the son of God??

I say to these kids, (heck, at my age, EVERYONE'S a kid), whatever their religion, Bravo! In the face of lies...to still have faith in the BIGGER reasons for Christmas...is quite an accomplishment.

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Toelint]

Originally posted by an3rkist
Well I, for one, think ALL holidays are a bunch of hooie. I'm no scrooge, and I still enjoy the Christmas season, even though I'm not even Christian. Christmas, itself, is supposedly to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and we supposedly give gifts to people to represent the gifts of Frankinsence and Myrrh (sp?) and whatnot given to the baby Jesus. Santa Claus apparently represents Saint Nick, who I believe was a Catholic saint who was famous for being very giving or something.

No doubt the holiday season is a HUGE business opportunity for all those tyrannical businesses out there, but I don't know about it being a conspiracy thing. Like I said, holidays to me are an invention of society, if not for a way to make money, maybe they were just invented to get employers to give their employees days off. Or maybe kids invented holidays to get out of school more. I don't think it has anything to do with convincing people Jesus didn't exist. Why we teach kids Santa really exists? I'm not really sure. Humans seem to like to make things fantastical and mystical and...well, FUN! I dunno. I think your theory is interesting. But I think ultimately it just comes down to the fact that it makes Christmas a little more fun.

Actually, I think that the celebration of Christmas is really the celebration of the conception by Mary of the God-clone, Jesus and not really his birth. I read somewhere that Yashua (Jesus) was really born under the sign of the virgin and not in December...do the math and it comes out to being concieved in December.

and the Frankinsence and Myrrh, according to the Lost Books of the Bible, were promised to come back to the hebrews at the birth of christ. The Frankinsence and Myrrh, along with gold, were originally given to Adam and Eve after being expelled from Eden to help ease thier suffering from being kicked out of paradise. They were reminders of Eden, of the smell of the trees and the Gold gave them light in the Cave of Treasures, where they were led to and lived after being kicked out. These same objects, along with the body of Adam, was taken along in the Ark during the flood and reburied with his body after settling on Mt. Arafat. It was told to Noah that the tomb would be robbed but that the items would be brought back at the birth of Christ.

I guess, if you believe in Christ, then you are a Christian???

Why is Christmas taught...maybe to instill hope?

>> I guess, if you believe in Christ, then you are a Christian???

But what if I believe in Christ, as well as Muhammad, Buddah and all the other folks?

Call me the party-pooper if you'd like, but I never played the Santa crap. Of course, my wife had a calf over the topic, so I agreed not to tell my son there was no Santa unless he asked me, but I would not do or say anything to perpetuate the lie, either.
One day the kid finally asked me, and I asked him, "Son do you really think some fat dude rides a sleight all night long and hits every kids house where he slides down the chimney and delivers presents? Before you answer, you might want to take note of the fact that we have no chimney!"

When he gave the proper response, I replied, "Good. Now don't tell your mother. She still hasn't figured it out, yet."

Any surprise that I'm dicvorced? Twice?

Originally posted by bratok
ROIGINALLY POSTED BY ME!!!
>> I guess, if you believe in Christ, then you are a Christian???

But what if I believe in Christ, as well as Muhammad, Buddah and all the other folks?

Then you are poly-addicted??? (just kidding)

Why teach our child about something like that? Why not explain it the way we understand it,

Maybe because it's nice to keep the magic that is childhood alive for as long as we can?

Eventually, they'll grow to figure out what is real and what isn't. Until such cruel realities of the world hit them, isn't it nice to just be a kid and live in as much of a fantasy land as possible for a while? It's the same reasons we try and shelter them from violence, crime, etc. We want to give them the time and opportunity to just be kids.

Has there EVER been one kid who resented their parents for perpatuating the Santa myth? Do you resent your parents for doing so? Well then, there you go....

I assume the thread author is a grown up. Say do you still believe in Santa Claus?

I didn't think so.

It is not like everyone is going to believe in Santa Claus after they grow up.
So why not give the child the fun of Santa.

Surf

Santa is Satan. Pure and simple.

Here's the proof:

- I mean come on, the spelling is just too close. Satan/Santa changed his name so that we wouldn't figure it out.

- Santa-Satan has usurped the day that is supposed to be the celebration of the birth of Jesus. He has made it so that we are more concerned about consuming and buying gifts than worship. Santa-Satan makes a 15% commission off all gifts sold at Christmas.

- Santa has a diabolical laugh, just like Satan: "MUHOHOHOHOHO!!" and "MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!" are just too similar to deny.

- Santa wears black and red just like Satan does, because these colors provide super resistance to the fires of hell. Black and red give you a +5 bonus to resisting hellfire.

- Santa-Satan rings a bell to symbolize the same bell used to call people to bring out their dead during the years of the Black Plague.

- Santa was once called St Nicklaus in Europe. Satan is sometimes referred to as "Old Nick". Connection?...Hmmm, I think so.

- "Christmas" comes from the words "Christ" and "Mass" and it symbolizes us eating the body of Christ, because Satan wants to eat Christ with some ketchup or some barbecue sauce because they never really got along very well.

- Only a being of demonic, supernatural power could survive on milk and cookies alone. Milk and cookies give Satan-Santa extra demonic strength and power, just like Popeye eating spinach.

- Only a being of supernatural power, able to transcend dimensions of time-space could deliver that many presents in one night. God granted this power to Satan when Satan beat God at a game of Monopoly.

- Santa is a big fat dude and there is no way he could fit down your chimney. In order to do so, Satan/Santa shape-shifts into serpent form. If you don't have a chimney, he turns into ethereal demon-ghost form and phases in through your back door. If you put tinfoil over your back door you can prevent Santa-Satan from entering your house, but you won't get any presents.

- Satan's greatest achievement was to make the world believe he doesn't exist. Santa did the same. Statistics show that only 14 adults actually believe in Santa.

- Santa-Satan's sled is pulled by horned flying creatures. Everybody knows that deer can't fly, so they must be demons.

- Santa-Satan has little creatures with pointy ears that help him make presents. These are actually evil imps that help him make his plans for the destruction of the world. These imps helped Santa-Satan create evil things like Britney Spears and Mondays.

- Because of his demonic powers Santa-Satan knows telepathically who is naughty and nice, and he makes a list and checks it twice of all the people who will burn in hell forever and ever. Forever and ever is a very long time. If you lived ten times as long as Ronald Reagan, you would still not have lived forever and ever. That is how long it is.

- Santa-Satan is the oldest dude in the world, which means he has been around since creation. He can't be Adam because he doesn't wear a fig leaf in front of his John Thomas, so he must be the serpent from the Bible.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Seriously though. Merry Christmas to all!!