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Santa Claus

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posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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Can christmas go on without Santa? I dont think so anymore. Santa is idolised as a nice old man who gives gifts. Christmas today is all about greed, business etc. Where else would people get the idea of giving gifts? Its silly to say, the three wise men gave gifts to Jesus - doesnt any newborn receive a gift? Ever sillier to say, the gifts (gold, frankincese and myth) were expensive which means up the bloody prices for christmas. this is my thought though, and i do enjoy the christmas etc. because of the people who just follow the crowd and like enjoyment no one is ever going to attack christmas is wrong. christmas just keeps the economies going. economies only do good when something big is happening doesnt it? why not stick christmas as a period to oust all other big events to boost economy, money and greed. Christmas is a conspiracy, lol
(i just had to argue something)




posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 03:42 PM
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My theory, Santa's workshop on the North Pole is really Atlantis (sunk under the ice). Santa is there alone as a caretaker (the rest of the atlantians are in stasis) and being dreadfully lonely finds solstice by creating toys and then distributing them to children. He accomplishes this in a single night using complex technologies based on worm hole physics and time dialation which allow him to distribute all the toys in one night. He then uses advanced mind control through an array like HAARP that convinces them that they bought the toys themselves. Instead through the mind control the money is funnelled into charities that work towards world peace and keep close lists as to which kids are naughty or nice. The agents of these organizations are the santas you see everywhere on street corners and in shopping malls. They are being controlled by the array and once they give their reports they have no recollection of anything except their employment by the store / charity / etc.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 03:53 PM
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For all intents and purposes, children worship Santa Claus as a god. They ask him for presents just as humans throughout history have praryed to their deity/deities for blessings. They are also encouraged to behave morally in order to receive their coveted gifts from the jolly old saint. Moreover, the expectant hope and ecstatic joy experienced by children on Christmas Eve and morning can certainly be equated with a religious experience.

Parents know that Santa isn't real, yet they help convince their children that he is so. One day their sons and daughters will learn that Mr. Claus ia fantasy and that their parents (the people whom they most likely love and trust more than anyone else in the entire world) have lied to them. Anyone who believes this is not psychologically damaging to children is living in a dream world.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 04:00 PM
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"ho ho ho, merry christmas"

did santa really say those words? were santa's laughs ho hoes? how did santa know about christmas? does that mean christmas came before santa? why not 25th december = santa day?



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 04:04 PM
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December 25th was set as Christmas in order to reign in paganism in the Roman Empire. Before Christianity became the official religion a very prevelant cult / religion was that of Sol Invictus. There have been several posts on this and I believe people traced it back to Egypt and all sorts of things. In fact I have a ring in my possession that one would wear denoting that they were a member of said cult. Anyway December 25th was when the cult held very popular games that were heavily attended. The Church took over the date so that they could direct the attention of the people away from pagan activities and focus them on Church holidays.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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What's important is the "spirit" that Santa Claus embodies... The idea of getting just as much joy out of giving, as receiving, as well as a feeling of brotherhood to your fellow men, women and children. I'll NEVER stop having faith in that, so in my heart, Santa is and always will be very real.

Others have pointed out the various legends leading up to the modern Claus. I'd highly recommend two very different films for holiday viewing as well as interesting studies on the nature of Santa Claus.

Santa Claus the Movie: (with Dudley Moore). While it eventually goes into some really weird plot ideas...the basic beginnings of Santa as portrayed in the movie are damn good.

The Santa Clause: (Tim Allen) A little cheesy, but an excellent movie for explaining pretty much every question your kid would have about Santa. And if you don't tear up when that dude gets his weenie whistle and she gets her mystery date game, then your heart has to rival the Grinch's, hehe...

As another tidbit, some may not know of this, but on Christmas Eve, NORAD actually tracks Santa's sleigh! Pretty fun to show the kiddies, hehe...



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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where did santas big list come from? do you think some children post real letters to the north pole about what ehy want for christmas? why is santa situated in the north pole? why not south? sleighs are for wintery conditions, why did it ever fly? why did santa claus be old, fat, have a moustache, beard and grey/white hair? was santa a whiteman? (like saying was jesus a blackman?) how did santa keep up the trend of changing toys?



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 05:16 PM
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Originally posted by Ischyros
For all intents and purposes, children worship Santa Claus as a god. They ask him for presents just as humans throughout history have praryed to their deity/deities for blessings. They are also encouraged to behave morally in order to receive their coveted gifts from the jolly old saint. Moreover, the expectant hope and ecstatic joy experienced by children on Christmas Eve and morning can certainly be equated with a religious experience.

Parents know that Santa isn't real, yet they help convince their children that he is so. One day their sons and daughters will learn that Mr. Claus ia fantasy and that their parents (the people whom they most likely love and trust more than anyone else in the entire world) have lied to them. Anyone who believes this is not psychologically damaging to children is living in a dream world.


My exact centiments. Great minds think alike!


If you take this one step further, it is a false representation of God. It gets people into the mindset that if they are good, if they do good works, then God will bless them and will only bless them on these conditions.



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Channy
Where do the origins of Santa come from?

There is a book and theory out there (haven't read the book) that researches the various santa and santa like myths. The author is able to get some information on a very old and probably extremely ancient 'play' that supposedly still went on in the balkans until recently. It featured a few player, that would rollick thru the town and go from house to house, one of them dressed in a red goat fur coat. Its something of a celebration. Supposedly in other variations of the theme at different times and places they'd actually enter a person's house and more or less force/gode them to participate in some 'good time fun'. Anyway the idea is that the tradition can be traced back to one of its oldest forms. The Ainu of japan apparently have this ceremony wherein a bear is hunted out of a cave in the mountains, brought back, and (eventually) eaten, and there is this whole story that is very similar to the associated Balkans street festival (again, part of the background of myths out of which that author created 'santa claus' around the 1900s). Eventually the bear skulls are ritually arranged. Supposedly there are also bear skulls similarly arrainged in what are thought to be neanderthal caves/habitats. And, finally, most perversly and ironically, neanderthal skulls are found in sapiens caves, similiarly ritually arranged. Santa Claus was a cave man.



I dont see in any link between Santa and Jesus apart from the 3 wise men giving gifts.

The two really have absolutely nothing to do with one another. Bringing gifts to a baby's birth perhaps need not be connected with the european tradition of exchanging gifts in that season. Gift giving is of course a tradition that was extremely important to primitive tribes and societies. Tho, ironically like I said above, -if- santa is the bear/neanderthal, then he -too- is ritually consumed by his patrons, just like jesus.


Santa has been passed down from generation to generation - will he ever be erased?

Probably, but the myth will continue in one form or another probably too. Don't forget that santa claus 'proper' was a recent american invention, I don't remember the author, but I am sure that someone else on this board either does or has even already noted it.


Santa has influenced many areas now like the East. Is this right?

Since when is cultural exchange wrong?

edit to add

We light christmas trees because they used to be burned.

Can't stack them all together and set them on fire, so we put nice little lights on them but don't quie know why. I -think- this pine tree fire setting is an old pagan german tradition, and, as some have noted, christmas -time- was probably co-opted by christians to assimilate pagans, similar to how christian churches are built on pagan temples, or how patron saints rule over the same areas of life as pagan cult gods. Also, think about it, when jesus is born in the manger, I think there are other baby animals in there too no? But December is not birthing time for farm animals (more or less anyway, not entirely sure here)

I think that the St. Nicholas think might be overstated. St. Nicholas (or something liek that) was an orthodox preist who more or less gave out gifts or somesuch, but the overall tradition does seem to be older.

[edit on 6-12-2004 by Nygdan]



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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santa gave "toys" to children, why do adults take part and not every present or gift is a toy?



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 02:20 PM
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I never believed in the old guy, nor the tooth fairy or easter bunny..lol

My mother sorta tried to get me to think he was real when I was 4 or 5. But that didnt last long when I stared asking questions she couldnt answer. So to me christmas became just a day where family comes to hang together like thanksgiving. We celebrate Family on this day really not the birth of jesus.

Merry christmas ATS
Gala



posted on Dec, 7 2004 @ 04:55 PM
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thinking about where santa originates in my life, it was probably tv, school and my sister more than my parents. my parents were busy in life and i couldnt really talk to them due to language difference. surprisingly this language difference linked in with a different culture and so when they were young they probably had no santa. how i viewed santa was still the same usual he will come down on christmas eve and crap. i think as i grew older, i assumed he did not exist, no one really told me, but then again i cant remember if anyone did. i think the usual common final thought is that there was never ever any proof. my parents did celebrate christmas when i young, but i was more into the presents and stuff. i also realised "santa is just there" at christmas and nothing special, lol



posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 11:52 AM
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www.ananova.com...



'Santa-Free Zones' created

A group of Germans are wanting to get rid of Santa saying he has become a symbol of the commercialisation of Christmas.



Thousands of stickers have been printed declaring whole areas in Germany and Austria "Santa Free Zones" and pamphlets have been handed out on street corners reminding people that the traditional bringer of presents is St Nicholas and not the red-suited, white-bearded immigrant from the English-speaking world.

In some towns like the east Austrian town of St Wolfgang, Santa has even been banned from the local Christmas market - and shop keepers are restricted to offering traditional Austrian products and gifts as well as typical Austrian culinary delights.

Spokesman Bettina Schade from the Frankfurter Nicholas Initiative said: "We object to the material things, the hectic rush to buy gifts, and the ubiquity of the bearded man in the red suit that are taking away from the core meaning of Christmas.

"The Christian origins of Christmas, like the birth of Jesus, have receded into the background. It's becoming more and more a festival that is reduced to simply worldly gifts and commerce."

Local tourism manager in St Wolfgang Hans Wieser said: "Santa Claus is not a typical Christmas tradition neither in Germany nor Austria - this red-suited man only turned up over the last decade or so.

"We want to return to our roots and therefore we won't give Santa a chance,"

he added.

The anti-Santa campaign stickers that show Santa dressed in red with a bar across the image have become very popular among the increasing number of "Santa Free Zones".


what do you think? are they right or are they ruining santa for the children of the world? look at the kids face in the background!


[edit on 20/12/2004 by Channy]



posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Watch out kids, Santa claws is coming to town!





posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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Some Santa Stats---
As a result of an overwhelming lack of requests, and with research assistance from that renowned scientific journal SPY magazine (Jan 90), we are pleased to present the annual scientific inquiry into Santa Claus.


Well, Santa has one thing that refutes the scientific inquiries...the magic of Christmas.

Who's to say that he (like the aliens so often discussed on this site) hasn't found a way to bypass space/time to allow for his deliveries.

Wouldn't this same mastery over space/time allow for the multi-dimensional dimensions of his gift bag?

BTW:

People do, indeed write letters to Santa Claus. Also, any letters addressed to him are dutifully picked up by the Postal Service. They will NOT come back as Return to Sender (go ahead, try it...
)

As for why the north pole...simple. More people (especially those who practice the ritual for Santa) live in the Northern Hemisphere of course, so it's all about a central location...and logistics.

You can see NORAD's tracking of Santa on their website. (though they have problems with the time distortion, they do their best).

www.noradsanta.org...

(50th anniversary of doing so even!!!)

A simple look into the origins of Santa (such as that provided on the first page of this thread), will explain his national origins, if curious about the skin color, etc.



posted on Dec, 20 2004 @ 09:40 PM
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I posted this in dnero6911's thread, but I thought I should post it here as well to awaken you all to the truth:

Santa is Satan. Pure and simple.

Here's the proof:

- The spelling is just too close. Satan/Santa changed his name so that we wouldn't figure it out.

- Santa-Satan has usurped the day that is supposed to be the celebration of the birth of Jesus. He has made it so that we are more concerned about consuming and buying gifts than worship. Santa-Satan makes a 15% commission off all gifts sold at Christmas.

- Santa has a diabolical laugh, just like Satan: "MUHOHOHOHOHO!!" and "MUAHAHAHAHAHA!!" are just too similar to deny.

- Santa wears black and red just like Satan does, because these colors provide super resistance to the fires of hell. Black and red give you a +5 bonus to resisting hellfire.

- Santa-Satan rings a bell to symbolize the same bell used to call people to bring out their dead during the years of the Black Plague.

- Santa was once called St Nicklaus in Europe. Satan is sometimes referred to as "Old Nick". Connection?...Hmmm, I think so.

- "Christmas" comes from the words "Christ" and "Mass" and it symbolizes us eating the body of Christ, because Satan wants to eat Christ with some ketchup or some barbecue sauce because they never really got along very well.

- Only a being of demonic, supernatural power could survive on milk and cookies alone. Milk and cookies give Satan-Santa extra demonic strength and power, just like Popeye eating spinach.

- Only a being of supernatural power, able to transcend dimensions of time-space could deliver that many presents in one night. God granted this power to Satan when Satan beat God at a game of Monopoly.

- Santa is a big fat dude and there is no way he could fit down your chimney. In order to do so, Satan/Santa shape-shifts into serpent form. If you don't have a chimney, he turns into ethereal demon-ghost form and phases in through your back door. If you put tinfoil over your back door you can prevent Santa-Satan from entering your house, but you won't get any presents.

- Satan's greatest achievement was to make the world believe he doesn't exist. Santa did the same. Statistics show that only 14 adults actually believe in Santa.

- Santa-Satan's sled is pulled by horned flying creatures. Everybody knows that deer can't fly, so they must be demons.

- Santa-Satan has little creatures with pointy ears that help him make presents. These are actually evil imps that help him make his plans for the destruction of the world. These imps helped Santa-Satan create evil things like Britney Spears and Mondays.

- Because of his demonic powers Santa-Satan knows telepathically who is naughty and nice, and he makes a list and checks it twice of all the people who will burn in hell forever and ever. Forever and ever is a very long time. If you lived ten times as long as Ronald Reagan, you would still not have lived forever and ever. That is how long it is.

- Santa-Satan is the oldest dude in the world, which means he has been around since creation. He can't be Adam because he doesn't wear a fig leaf in front of his John Thomas, so he must be the serpent from the Bible.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Seriously though. Merry Christmas to all!!



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 12:40 AM
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Has anyone ever read in the book of Rev., where God finally allows the Anti-Christ to kill the two witnesses/prophets and everyone starts to rejoice and give each other gifts. If not, it is Revalation 11:10, thats something very interesting to think about.



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 11:21 AM
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People sing christmas carols during the festive season. What is a christmas carol? Some say it is hymns for christmas, so why do we sing about santa?



posted on Dec, 21 2004 @ 06:25 PM
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Call me a Scrooge, but I can't stand most Xmas carols. I always thought the best carols were the one's that AREN'T about Santa and his reindeer.
O' Come All Ye Faithful
The First Noel
We Three Kings
and so on...

Most of these are quite stirring.

I also hate that dang "fa-la-la-la-la la-la-laaa-laaa" one. Drives me nuts!



posted on Dec, 22 2004 @ 05:35 PM
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soon we will be seeing santa give out money because its money that buys presents and since you dont know what the present is, why no symbolise presents with money? his bag will also take on the $ sign as well, like hes just robbed a bank.



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