Santa Claus

What age did you start to begin not believing in Santa Clause? It hurt didnt it when we were children. Do you still believe in Santa Clause? As a kid, Santa brought me hope and joy at the thought of giving presents on Christmas Eve and coming through my chimney. I feel sad when someone really young (like 5 years old) doesnt believe in Santa anymore in todays world. We laugh now thinking how stupid it is that we ever believed in him. Do you think we should take away Santa from the children today?

Where do the origins of Santa come from? He's refered to other names as well - Father Christmas, St Nicholas etc. I dont see in any link between Santa and Jesus apart from the 3 wise men giving gifts. Santa has been passed down from generation to generation - will he ever be erased? Santa has influenced many areas now like the East. Is this right?

We say we never see Santa, so he doesnt exist. We never see Jesus or any other God so why do we believe in them.

Merry Christmas to everyone who reads this!

EDIT: edited spelling from Clause to Claus for search purposes

[edit on 6-12-2004 by Gazrok]

Merry Christmas to you too!

The evidence of God is everywhere. Trees, the sky, The Earth!

I think younger children should be able to retain Santa Claus, he is, to say. The last bit of Childhood that we all love and remember. Thinking about how when we were little, we couldn't wait for Santa to come.

We keep it, they keep it.

Santa Claus comes from the Christian St. Nicolas. Back when he was alive he would leave poor children gifts in shoes they left outside their doors at night. Actually, his Saint day was just this past week, on Dec. 2 I believe. But over the centuries his myth has been changed and edited to be what we have today.

EDIT: A second of Googling got me this: Santa Claus Facts, Origins, and fun Tidbits

[edit on 12/5/2004 by cmdrkeenkid]

Merry christmas to all at ats !

Heres a little light humor for adults (psst kids, Santa Exist and he loves bourbon!)

Some Santa Stats---
As a result of an overwhelming lack of requests, and with research assistance from that renowned scientific journal SPY magazine (Jan 90), we are pleased to present the annual scientific inquiry into Santa Claus.

1. No known species of reindeer can fly. BUT there are over 300,000 species of living organisms yet to be classified. While most of these are insects and germs, this does not COMPLETELY rule out flying reindeer of which only Santa has seen.

2. There are over 2 billion children (persons under 18) in the world. BUT since Santa doesn't appear to handle Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, etc. children, that reduces the workload down to about 15% of the total (378 million according to the Population Reference Bureau). At an average (census) rate of 3.5 children per household, that comes to 91.8 million homes.

One may presume there is at least one good child in each.

3. Assuming he travels east-to-west, Santa has 31 hours of Christmas in which to work, thanks to different time zones and the earth's rotation. This works out to 822.6 visits per second. This means that for each Christian household with good children, Santa has approximately 1/1000th of a second to park, hop out of the sleigh, jump down the chimney, fill the stockings, distribute the remaining presents under the tree, eat whatever snacks have been provided, jump back up the chimney, hop back into the sleigh, and move on to the next house.

Assuming each of these 91.8 million households are evenly distributed (which, of course, they are not, but which, for the purposes of our calculations, we will assume to be the case), the average distance between them is 0.78 miles. This results in a total trip of more than 71.6 million miles, not counting stops to (1) do what most of us must do at least once every 31 hours, (2) feed the reindeer, (3) etc.

This means Santa's sleigh must move at 640 miles per second (3,000 times the speed of sound). For the purposes of comparison, the fastest man-made vehicle, the Ulysses space probe, moves at a poky 27.4 miles per second. Furthermore, a conventionally-equipped reindeer can run, at best, 15-20 miles per hour.

4. The payload of the sleigh is another interesting factor. Assuming each child gets nothing more than a medium sized Lego set (2 pounds), the fully loaded sleigh is carrying 321,300 tons, not counting Santa, who is invariably described as overweight. On land, conventionally-equipped reindeer can pull no more than 300 pounds each. Even granting that "flying reindeer" (ref item 1) could pull TEN TIMES the normal amount, eight, or even nine (counting Rudolph) reindeer are grossly insufficient to pull the sleigh. In fact, 214,200 reindeer are needed. This increases the gross weight, not counting the weight of the sleigh itself, to 353,430 tons. Again for comparison, this is 4 times the weight of the Queen Elizabeth, or approximately half the weight of the Grand Princess! (=

5. 353,000 tons traveling at 650 miles per second creates enormous air resistance, heating up the reindeer in much the same fashion as the space shuttle re-entering Earth's atmosphere. The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy. Per second. Each. In short, they will burst into flame instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them and creating deafening sonic booms in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousandths of a second.

6. Santa, meanwhile, will be subjected to g-forces 17,500.06 times greater than gravity. A 250-pound Santa (which seems ludicrously slim) would be pinned to the back of his sleigh by 4,315,015 pounds of force.

IN CONCLUSION...

If Santa ever DID deliver presents on Christmas Eve, he's dead now.

So us parents do it instead! Dont tell the kids, let them be kids, please!

Thats not to mention the terminal effect of eating 2.3 billion cookies and drinking 1.7 billion litresof milk in 30 hrs! lol

[edit on 5-12-2004 by instar]

i had a great laugh with this, nice one instar

instar I got that audio file as well read by my fav performer Alice Cooper. Anyone who's not heard it should search and check it out the delivery is hilarious!
Surely no one on here is seriouly saying santa is a sodding conspiracy??? LOLOLOLOL I hope this is a festive joke, if not some people seriously need to get a grip of reality.
Merry Xmas to all on ATS - and watch out for those flaming raindeer!

Wayne...

Lol, no, no conspiracy, just sharing humour ! Anyone have the sound file of Elma Fudd reads porn? hilarious.......

[edit on 5-12-2004 by instar]

My answer to the dillema is that of the office supplies guy on television, worm hole physics.

We all know the old guy doesn't exist, and is just a bizarre composite of various superstitions.

Annual Gift Man, however, is very real. And if you wish to receive presents this Annual Gift Season, you had better observe all the laws of your prefecture and perform well at work or school.

If you are found satisfactory in your duties, you will receive gifts made in his many factories where currency exchange rates are favorable for export. But should you fail to make the cut, much shame and dishonor will be brought upon your family.

So work hard and don't be a slacker, because Annual Gift Man is watching everything you do from his surveillance facility on the moon, and has access to everyone's permanent records and report cards.

I'm going to be mighty ticked off if your thread has more replies then mine.. I covered this in Education and Media... lol

EDIT: heres my link

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I kinda go into detail about the whole Santa Clause thing..

[edit on 5/12/04 by dnero6911]

Heh, I was one of those kids that stopped believing in Santa Clause at an early age (around age 8). My parents used to have to make up all sorts of excuses to keep me quiet before then... Clause's factory is in Alaska, he really uses a jet, he only delivers to Christian children, etc.

Amanita Muscaria, that's your red and white Santa Clause, Reindeer, and christmas tree all in one fungus.

www.cannabisculture.com...
Although most people see Christmas as a Christian holiday, most of the symbols and icons we associate with Christmas celebrations are actually derived from the shamanistic traditions of the tribal peoples of pre-Christian Northern Europe.
The sacred mushroom of these people was the red and white amanita muscaria mushroom, also known as "fly agaric." These mushrooms are now commonly seen in books of fairy tales, and are usually associated with magic and fairies. This is because they contain potent hallucinogenic compounds, and were used by ancient peoples for insight and transcendental experiences.
Most of the major elements of the modern Christmas celebration, such as Santa Claus, Christmas trees, magical reindeer and the giving of gifts, are originally based upon the traditions surrounding the harvest and consumption of these most sacred mushrooms.

www.arkive.org...
The fly agaric is found from August to November in Europe, and from June to October in North America (3). It grows solitarily or in scattered groups (2). Fly agaric is eaten by reindeers, and is associated with Christmas in many parts of Europe. It has even been suggested that the use of fly agaric in midwinter festivals in Siberia may have been the inspiration for some of the features of Santa Clause, including his red and white robes, use of chimneys and his association with flying reindeer (5).

santa is ment to be in green clothing anyway isnt he? its only coke cola that changed what colour santa is today. arent his little elves green? maybe in a few years time something like nike will make santa snowboard skating or whatever, lol

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
Santa Claus comes from the Christian St. Nicolas.

Yep. He was a Catholic Bishop in modern day Turkey.
That's where he gets the red outfit - the red Bishop's robes.

I never believed in Santa Claus. BUT ...
I definately did believe in the Easter Bunny.

Well I did not grow up with santa we celebrate the three kings, and we did not have christmas three either after all we are in the tropics.

I am from Puerto Rico.

Our presents were due on the 7 and hidden under our beds.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
I never believed in Santa Claus. BUT ...
I definately did believe in the Easter Bunny.

lol, any proof on that? what colour was the easter bunny? easter is the time when jesus resurrects etc so what has it got do with a bunny? bunny's do not reproduce with eggs either?

My mother never let us believe in Santa. WHen I met my husband he was appalled by that fact (we were remembering childhood and somehow it came up).
But yes, Santa is based off of Saint Nicholas, who would leave poor children gifts if they left there shoes out.


*Zerinity*

Francis P. Church's editorial was an immediate sensation, and became the most famous editorial ever written.

It first appeared in the The New York Sun in 1897, more than a hundred years ago, and was reprinted annually until 1949 when the paper went out of business.

Thirty-six years after her letter was printed, Virginia O'Hanlon recalled the events that prompted her letter:

"Quite naturally I believed in Santa Claus, for he had never disappointed me. But when less fortunate little boys and girls said there wasn't any Santa Claus, I was filled with doubts. I asked my father, and he was a little evasive on the subject.

"It was a habit in our family that whenever any doubts came up as to how to pronounce a word or some question of historical fact was in doubt, we wrote to the Question and Answer column in The Sun. Father would always say, 'If you see it in the The Sun, it's so,' and that settled the matter.

" 'Well, I'm just going to write The Sun and find out the real truth,' I said to father.

"He said, 'Go ahead, Virginia. I'm sure The Sun will give you the right answer, as it always does.' "

And so Virginia sat down and wrote her parents' favorite newspaper.

Her letter found its way into the hands of a veteran editor, Francis P. Church. Son of a Baptist minister, Church had covered the Civil War for The New York Times and had worked on the The New York Sun for 20 years, more recently as an anonymous editorial writer. Church, a sardonic man, had for his personal motto, "Endeavour to clear your mind of cant." When controversial subjects had to be tackled on the editorial page, especially those dealing with theology, the assignments were usually given to Church.

Now, he had in his hands a little girl's letter on a most controversial matter, and he was burdened with the responsibility of answering it.

"Is there a Santa Claus?" the childish scrawl in the letter asked. At once, Church knew that there was no avoiding the question. He must answer, and he must answer truthfully. And so he turned to his desk, and he began his reply which was to become the most memorable editorials in newspaper history.

Editorial Page, New York Sun, 1897

We take pleasure in answering thus prominently the communication below, expressing at the same time our great gratification that its faithful author is numbered among the friends of The Sun:

I am 8 years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in The Sun, it's so." Please tell me the truth, is there a Santa Claus?
Virginia O'Hanlon

Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a sceptical age. They do not believe except what they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours, man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus.

He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus! It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The external light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in chemtrails! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if you did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus?Thank God he lives and lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!!

[edit on 6-12-2004 by Off_The_Street]

I'm sure I'll catch some kind of flame for this but...

Originally posted by Channy
What age did you start to begin not believing in Santa Clause?

8. I asked my dad candidly: "Does Santa Exists?" Dad: "No" Me: "Okay, I didn't think so."

Originally posted by Channy
It hurt didnt it when we were children. Do you still believe in Santa Clause?

No.

Originally posted by Channy
As a kid, Santa brought me hope and joy at the thought of giving presents on Christmas Eve and coming through my chimney. I feel sad when someone really young (like 5 years old) doesnt believe in Santa anymore in todays world. We laugh now thinking how stupid it is that we ever believed in him. Do you think we should take away Santa from the children today?

Yes, in the sense he drops down chimneys and give gifts. I've told my daughter who St. Nicholas was and what he used to do so we carry on that tradition. We still hide the gifts until Christmas and put them under the tree before she wakes up in the morning. The problem I have is I cannot lie. It makes me ill.

Originally posted by Channy
We say we never see Santa, so he doesnt exist. We never see Jesus or any other God so why do we believe in them.

Because God and Jesus are real. It's that simple. The reason why so many of us have a hard time believing is because of the Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy deceptions. In order to find out if they are real though, you have to experience for yourself. Pray for the truth, you'll get the answer. Maybe not through an interruption during your favorite TV show but you'll get an answer. It's that simple.

Originally posted by Channy
Merry Christmas to everyone who reads this!

Merry CHRISTmas!

As much as I like the Satan/Santa theory, I did want to add something to the discussion on his image. Modern Santa is really a creation of one man, an illustrator named Haddon Sundblom who did work for the Coke company. Haddon standardized the red suit (Santa was as often seen in other colors before Haddon put Santa in a suit with Coke's marketing color - red). The fat guy is also Haddon's creation. He often used himself as a model for his Santa illustration work and he was a large guy.



[edit on 6-12-2004 by niv]