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CFR: Ukraine Crisis, It's the Wests Fault

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posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
NATO trying to fight a war with Russia over a non-NATO nation will surely put NATO's existence in jeopardy. It will take only 1 country among the 28 to reject the idea. Germany is going to be among the early withdrawl from the 'bad project in planning.

You again failed to get the facts. Russia is the one engaged militarily in Ukraine, not NATO. Russia is the one starting the hostilities - Not NATO. Germany is doing its best to try and get Putin to take his medication and rejoin the rest of us in this reality.



originally posted by: victor7
Regarding the USSR and its reformation, there are several countries already willing to make similar entity with Russia but Moscow is not too interested.


Ukraine is not one of those nations and Russia has no business trying to force it.




originally posted by: victor7
However, any former USSR republics joining NATO will result in Russians acting in a way which might be similar to recent events. Russia can also make it difficult for NATO nations in other theaters around the world. Not worth trying to tease the bear and hoping to make a giggling dash for the trees. The bears are relentless chasers and the chase could become very bothersome !!


The Bear lost the cold war and collapsed their nation. Georgia nor Ukraine are members of NATO and Russia went for them first. I would imagine its because Russian is not the USSR and can no longer bully countries into their way of thinking. Putin is getting the very opposite of what he wanted. This is due to some form of mental deficiency in Putin since he cant see his actions are causing the very thing he did not want.




posted on Aug, 27 2014 @ 11:32 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
'Germans fed up with NATO allies & US wars' – Frmr Defense Secretary



Its RT news... Any non Russian source supporting this propaganda?
edit on 27-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 12:00 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

All these points while fascinating really have nothing to do with the thread topic. In my last two posts I asked a couple of questions that actually pertain to the OP. Those being NGO interference and their part in the overthrow of Yanukovych and NATO expansion in light of the Gorbachev days and what is happening today.

All this "after the fact" stuff is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.


edit on 251am4444am122014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 01:15 AM
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a reply to: Bassago

Then maybe you should direct your on topic comment to the pro Russian supporters whom my posts were in response to.

Secondly the op is an opinion piece and nothing more.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 02:30 AM
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a reply to: Bassago




All this "after the fact" stuff is irrelevant to the topic of this thread.



Just as these are, but that didn't stop you now did it?



Simply put this is your opinion and carries little to no weight about what citizens of Crimea believe.




Still I'm sure Crimea was under no disillusionment that Kiev would have invaded slaughtered, ballistic missile and artillery shelled them into dust as soon as possible.




Providing the Ukraine army ever gets past the freedom fighters in the east. I submit you are pulling opinions out of your.. back pocket.




So you say it was the "Russian troops" who intimidated the citizens of Crimea? Was that in a similar manner to the Iraq elections where the citizens were intimidated into voting correctly by US troops? Or does this only work one way to you, US is angels, Russia is devils? Seems naive to me.


None of the above are discussing the topic at hand, but I see it's okay when you do it just nobody else can...interesting.

People in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones now should they?

Again, the hypocrisy lives strong in the pro Russian camp.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 03:02 AM
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a reply to: Bassago

Swiss President Says Concerned With US Plan to Supply Nuclear Fuel to Ukraine

en.ria.ru...

West does not want to fight war with Russia over Ukraine but it does want to supply nuclear fuel to Junta in Kiev to make a bomb.

How can west be not blamed when repeated attempts of scheming the problem towards yet bigger mess are being made.

Btw, when Gaddafi shot the protestors then he was booked for War Crimes by the West. Ukraine killing 2000+ civilians in 100s of artillery type attacks in different cities and this does not even get a serious mention in the media.

What kind of double standard EVIL world are we living in?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 04:47 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

It doesn`t matter if it was on RT, it`s about who said it. MSM sure isn`t going to say this stuff, not even in Germany. But I bet he will say the same at other places if they gave him the change.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 05:27 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: Bassago

Swiss President Says Concerned With US Plan to Supply Nuclear Fuel to Ukraine

en.ria.ru...

West does not want to fight war with Russia over Ukraine but it does want to supply nuclear fuel to Junta in Kiev to make a bomb.

How can west be not blamed when repeated attempts of scheming the problem towards yet bigger mess are being made.

Btw, when Gaddafi shot the protestors then he was booked for War Crimes by the West. Ukraine killing 2000+ civilians in 100s of artillery type attacks in different cities and this does not even get a serious mention in the media.

What kind of double standard EVIL world are we living in?


One where the elite actually thinks the majority of common people are idiots.

They think the majority isn`t capable of seeing what is really going on, there are some, but not in huge numbers as they think there are.

The NATO remarks now seem to make them realize they may have to resort to even more disinformation, as if that`s possible. I wonder how long before they will figure out they have to shut down alternative media on the internet or even the internet it self.
edit on 28-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 06:00 AM
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a reply to: victor7


West does not want to fight war with Russia over Ukraine but it does want to supply nuclear fuel to Junta in Kiev to make a bomb.


The nuclear material is for power plants, to relieve some of the suffering caused by Putin's use of natural gas as a weapon. (Wasn't he the one who said that the use of energy as a weapon was criminal?) The concern is that Ukraine is a war zone, and there is the possibility of a nuclear accident which could contaminate Europe.


Btw, when Gaddafi shot the protestors then he was booked for War Crimes by the West. Ukraine killing 2000+ civilians in 100s of artillery type attacks in different cities and this does not even get a serious mention in the media.


Gadaffi shot unarmed protesters. Ukraine is shooting at heavily armed Russian mercenaries.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 06:41 AM
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Another sign things aren`t going to well for Kiev :

Poroshenko cancels visit to Turkey, calls urgent Security Council meeting




KIEV, August 28./ITAR-TASS/.Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko has cancelled a visit to Turkey and convened an urgent national security council meeting over the situation in the Donetsk region, the presidential press service said on Thursday. "I have decided to cancel the working visit to Turkey in connection with the sharp deterioration of the situation in the Donetsk region, in particular in the Amvrosiyevka and Starobeshevo," he said.


en.itar-tass.com...

Ukrainian MP considers situation in eastern Ukraine very complicated




KIEV, August 28. /ITAR-TASS/. The situation in eastern Ukraine is very complicated, leader of Ukraine’s Radical Party, parliamentarian Oleg Lyashko said on Thursday. “President [Petro] Poroshenko is indulging in wishful thinking. Several units have been encircled in the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. They cannot break out of the blockade if no measures are being taken,” Lyashko wrote on Facebook.

Lyashko said a serious threat was posed to the south of Rostov Region where militias opened the second front. “I can say the defense minister and the chief of General Staff do not adequately react to the situation. No aviation support was provided either to defenders in Mariupol or to volunteers encircled in Ilovaisk,” Lyashko said.

He called on the Ukrainian president to appoint a new defense minister and a new chief of General Staff. “The economy should be rebuilt for the war needs. The army does not have enough heavy hardware, artillery, aviation, communications and transport,” Lyashko added.


en.itar-tass.com...
edit on 28-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:30 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Ukrainian MP considers situation in eastern Ukraine very complicated


This is the MP who wants a shakeup at the Defense Ministry. Oleg Lyashko is one of the genuine sociopaths in the Kyiv government. His statements may or may not be accurate, as he seems to be making a bid for power.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Ukrainian MP considers situation in eastern Ukraine very complicated


This is the MP who wants a shakeup at the Defense Ministry. Oleg Lyashko is one of the genuine sociopaths in the Kyiv government. His statements may or may not be accurate, as he seems to be making a bid for power.



Uhm...have you switched sides ?

You`re now posting links to proof Kiev has fascists in their government, keep it up.

edit on 28-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:47 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Ukrainian MP considers situation in eastern Ukraine very complicated


This is the MP who wants a shakeup at the Defense Ministry. Oleg Lyashko is one of the genuine sociopaths in the Kyiv government. His statements may or may not be accurate, as he seems to be making a bid for power.



Switched sides? The only "side" I am on is the "side" of truth, a concept you and your cronies can't seem to understand. That is why I have never denied that there are ultra-nationalists, fascists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine. Pointing out that they are not the majority in the government does not make me an apologist for them. Now, why can't you admit that the Donetsk "government" was composed almost entirely of neo-Nazis, fascists, Russian skinheads and mercenaries? (I say "was" because they finally have a Ukrainian born intellectual as their figurehead. I expect he will either resign shortly or be "disappeared" for suggesting they surrender.)


Uhm...have you switched sides ?

You`re now posting links to proof Kiev has fascist in their government, keep it up.

edit on 28-8-2014 by DJW001 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 07:56 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


Ukrainian MP considers situation in eastern Ukraine very complicated


This is the MP who wants a shakeup at the Defense Ministry. Oleg Lyashko is one of the genuine sociopaths in the Kyiv government. His statements may or may not be accurate, as he seems to be making a bid for power.



Switched sides? The only "side" I am on is the "side" of truth, a concept you and your cronies can't seem to understand. That is why I have never denied that there are ultra-nationalists, fascists and neo-Nazis in Ukraine. Pointing out that they are not the majority in the government does not make me an apologist for them. Now, why can't you admit that the Donetsk "government" was composed almost entirely of neo-Nazis, fascists, Russian skinheads and mercenaries? (I say "was" because they finally have a Ukrainian born intellectual as their figurehead. I expect he will either resign shortly or be "disappeared" for suggesting they surrender.)


Uhm...have you switched sides ?

You`re now posting links to proof Kiev has fascist in their government, keep it up.


They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right.

Proof your claims from unbiased sources, if you claim to be on the "side" of truth, you would have no difficultly in doing that.




Donetsk "government" was composed almost entirely of neo-Nazis, fascists, Russian skinheads and mercenaries


If you can`t you`re full of crap !
edit on 28-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 08:29 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right.

Proof your claims from an unbiased sources, if you claim to be on the "side" of truth, you would have no difficultly in doing that.


Apply your own standards: If these people are in the government, the government is Fascist:



Pavel Gubarev



Oleg Tsarev, giving a Nazi salute.

Does this look like a happy populace?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 08:42 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right.

Proof your claims from an unbiased sources, if you claim to be on the "side" of truth, you would have no difficultly in doing that.


Apply your own standards: If these people are in the government, the government is Fascist:



Pavel Gubarev



Oleg Tsarev, giving a Nazi salute.

Does this look like a happy populace?


You said they were almost entirely, so I`m waiting for more evidence of your claim !



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 09:05 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


You said they were almost entirely, so I`m waiting for more evidence of your claim !


And you said: "They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right." Why do you keep changing your standards?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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Quite (or not) surprising to see how much information BBC all of sudden has regarding to Ukraine. They all of sudden seem to have all kinds of information, but didn`t had it before.

The desperate statements/reports/actions may indicate Kiev`s army has been giving huge blows.

It makes you wonder if Kiev officials are really starting to sweat...?

I wonder what would happen if the Ukrainian army really crumbles (if it has not happen partially already) ?



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


You said they were almost entirely, so I`m waiting for more evidence of your claim !


And you said: "They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right." Why do you keep changing your standards?



You`re now dodging the bullet, so you won`t have to come up with the proof. I have seen you do that before.

First affirm your claims, then we can talk about it.



posted on Aug, 28 2014 @ 09:13 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


You said they were almost entirely, so I`m waiting for more evidence of your claim !


And you said: "They are in the government aren`t they, so it is the government, no way to try and talk that right." Why do you keep changing your standards?



You`re now dodging the bullet, so you won`t have to come up with the proof. I have seen you do that before.

First affirm your claims, then we can talk about it.


Only when you can prove that the Kyiv government is Fascist.



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