CFR: Ukraine Crisis, It's the Wests Fault

a reply to: Bassago

Ukraine's president on Monday dissolved parliament and called for early elections in October as his country continues to battle a pro-Russian insurgency in its eastern regions.

This is nothing new as he has been saying that since he was elected.

And the thing is he want's to have a fresh start in parliament where they can possibly get things done, and the only way for that to happen is to have new parliamentary elections.

So far more than 2000 civilians have been killed and most by the artillery and mortar shelling by the Junta forces.

THIS HAS TO STOP RIGHT AWAY !!

Otherwise, DPR leadership would reserve the rights to plant such items in places like Lviv, Kiev etc. where common civilians are hurt and crippled badly.

If Junta forces are not capable enough to deal with rebels via police action then they better not conduct this operation. It might be too late already as unlike before, now the rebels are also armed with heavy weapons. Do not expect them to disarm when more than 2K civilians have perished from Junta artillery attacks.

Russia is ready to send another convoy of humanitarian aid. This time Russia should declare that atmost it will wait for only 24 hours before the convoy crosses the border. Last time it were 10 days and still Ukraine did not clear the convoy and forced Russia to go ahead on its own. This shows the hatred that Junta has towards people in the East. There is no point in trying to hold on to East anymore. It's all lost for Junta idiots !!

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

This is nothing new as he has been saying that since he was elected.

True

And the thing is he want's to have a fresh start in parliament where they can possibly get things done, and the only way for that to happen is to have new parliamentary elections.

Yes again as it was obvious much of the now defunct Parliament didn't like what he was trying to do and opposed him. Guess that's one way to drive through the western agenda, eliminate all the naysayers. I bet our POTUS wishes he could do the same thing.

And if he doesn't get his way with new "elections?" Well he can just do away with them too as he's set the precedent. Give it the old "If at first you don't succeed.." method of political domination. I'm sure the IMF completely supports him in this.

a reply to: Bassago

Porky Poro can have all the elections but they would not matter in the East. Novorossiya is a new country now and there is no need to follow any orders from Kiev.

By the way, bootlickers made the farmers in Ukraine do WHAT ??..................

www.liveleak.com...

Junta Idiots should write a thesis on............how to lose a big chunk of your country within 12 months !!

originally posted by: Bassago
So why is this happening exactly?

Many members of parliament "are allies of the militants-separatists," Poroshenko said, referring to the pro-Russian rebels

OK got it.

Edit: I suggest this adds additional support that Poroshenko is a dutiful lapdog to the US/EU/NATO and more specifically the IMF who as noted before wants east Ukraine and the pro-Russian supporters brought under control.

Wonder what he'll do if the "election" doesn't get the outcome he wishes? Or more likely it will since how will anyone in the east get to vote as his army has bombed hundreds of thousands out of the homes. That won't look good.

Sounds like a great election strategy though; bomb the hell out of the opposition, then hold the election. Any survivors will be too busy, and generally unable to vote...you win by landslide.

When I saw that bit of news all I could think is "How stupid is this guy?" His army can't defeat the rebels, so he rather transparently attempts to remove any support they may have in what passes for legitimate government...unfathomable.

a reply to: victor7

Junta Idiots should write a thesis on............how to lose a big chunk of your country within 12 months !!

LMAO! I need something to brighten my day. Thanks!

Maybe the US/EU/NATO/IMF crew would like to give them a hand writing it.

I immediately got banned from Godlike Productions, again, for posting this link.

disinfo.com...

a reply to: victor7

I have made up my own mind on Ukraine.

The OP is trying to push an oped piece as something official when in fact its not. Since the thread is based on that assumption, its relevant to question it, which is whats occurring. As has been stated before this is not Russia, so both sides of the coin can post.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

The Separatists were the ones making sure the civilians got the much needed aid, not Kiev.

Wrong - Pro Russian rebels have been taking items from the civilians in those areas. Kiev has sent humanitarian aid under the Red Cross into those areas. Russia on the other hand has not. The Red Cross has nothing to do with Russian convoys. The Russian convoys sent in crossed in an area controlled by rebels, and were escorted by rebels. How much of the aid was diverted before they got to town?

My guess is a lot.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
"The West" is doing a pretty good job of demonizing themselves, no need for Russia to do it.

Again, wrong. Putin is the one who keeps lying to everyone. In fact he has told so many lies I don't think he knows whats the truth anymore., which is par for the course for Moscow.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
The more lies you tell, the more obvious it will be to many you`re lying.

I am glad we see eye to eye on Putin.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
All Russia has to do is keep bringing out the truth and most people will see what is happening.

Yet here we are, Putin still giving conflicting statements as to who and why and what. The only thing Russia is bringing out is their incompetence an inability to tell the same lie twice.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
The last elections to the European Parliament showed that all European citizens are not fooled by the false pro-American, anti-Russian propaganda...and by the constant stream of lies.

Try again

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
The more we speak the truth and the more persistent we are the greater will be the reaction.

Uhm not in Russias case.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
Why not point out to the far worse thing which has been going on right now ?

We have been... We have pointed out the Russian lies, the pro Russian war crimes, the pro Russians looting the trapped civilians. The pro Russians forcing residents to stay to drive up body count, the use of Soviet Law dating back to the 1940's. etc etc etc. Things pro Russians ignore.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
“Crimes against humanity” include any of the following acts committed as part of a widespread or systematic attack directed against any civilian population, with knowledge of the attack:

murder;
extermination;
enslavement;
deportation or forcible transfer of population;
imprisonment;
torture;
rape, sexual slavery, enforced prostitution, forced pregnancy, enforced sterilization, or any other form of sexual violence of comparable gravity;
persecution against an identifiable group on political, racial, national, ethnic, cultural, religious or gender grounds;
enforced disappearance of persons;
the crime of apartheid;
other inhumane acts of a similar character intentionally causing great suffering or serious bodily or mental injury.

www.icc-cpi.int...

Yup - Several items on the list the Pro Russians and Russia have violated several times now.

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
At least they get a trail, the civilians dying now of the constant shelling by the Ukrainian Army are not even getting a trail, they have been sentenced to death without it.

So its ok for the Russian leaders of the rebellion to flee because they are going to lose and let the civilians bear the brunt? That is exactly what Hitler did in the end.

Russia made a mess, killed a lot of people and ae now fleeing.

Again Putins vanity and Ego will get the best of him.

a reply to: tanka418

Yes you missed the point. The article is not a CFR article and does not represent a CFR position. Its an oped piece and nothing more.

a reply to: Bassago

The article is not by the CFR and is not endorsed by the CFR. You used an article title from the Washington Post and are trying to pass it off as CFR.

Nothing in your op is accurate. Its an attempt to deceive, just like Russia does. Just like Russia, you also got called out and are desperately trying to shift focus off of you and onto something else. That is evident in your responses, trying to spin, trying to rephrase comments you made, ignoring areas you cannot counter.

If you want to discuss your oped piece as such, an independent oped that is not based on the CFR, lets go for it. If you wish to continue to try and mislead and argue its officially a CFR piece, then you are on your own and we will call out your posts and remind you and others its not a CFR piece.

a reply to: Bassago

So getting back to the points you wrongly believe represent the official position of the Council on Foreign Relations, which is wrongly characterized as both "mainstream and hawkish, let us have a look at them:

The Ukraine crisis is being blamed almost entirely on Russian aggression.

In support of this, you cite a NYT "backgrounder"from 2009. In fact, most responsible analysts see Russian aggression as one among many causes. There was already internal strife due to uneven distribution of the new revenues pouring in since the collapse of the Soviet Union, and different geo-political orientations on different sides of the Dniester. Some of the violence was certainly due to Yanukovych's police, some may have been due to elements of the Far Right, and some may well be due to Russian agents provocateurs. There has been sufficient documentation of criminal activity in the "DPR" to lay some of the blame there, as well.

The United States and its European allies actually share most of the responsibility for the crisis.

They were not the ones who annexed Crimea and encouraged Russian carpetbggers to set up shop in the East.

The taproot of the trouble is NATO enlargement, the central element of a larger strategy to move Ukraine out of Russia’s orbit and integrate it into the West.

Seeking positive, mutually beneficial relations with a neighboring nation is not a crime. Russia should have courted Ukraine by spending 50 billion rubles on public work projects and positive ads on Ukrainian TV, instead of demanding that Ukraine obey Russia's will.

The U.S. State Department spent more than $5 billion dollars in pushing Ukraine towards the West.

"Pushing," or "enticing?" There is a reason why so many of the former Warsaw Pact countries sought out membership in NATO and the EU. They were not "pushed," they were not "forced," they were drawn because after their experience with the brutal, self centered Soviet Union, becoming part of the Western European community seemed to hold the most promise for peace and prosperity. I know Russians hate to hear that, but it's true. (cf: Katyn Massacre, Hungarian Uprising, Prague Spring....)

The U.S. ambassador to Ukraine (Geoffrey Pyatt) and assistant Secretary of State (Victoria Nuland) were also recorded plotting the downfall of the former Ukraine government in a leaked conversation.

Plotting? Or discussing? The candidates they allegedly were plotting to install did not win the election. Oops, looks like they weren't plotting after all, just "handicapping."

Top-level U.S. officials involvement/interference during the protests.

But it was okay for Sergei Lavrov to share his 2 kopecks worth with his puppet Yanukovych.

There. It seems we have covered all of these points in countless other threads countless number of times. Where does the Council on Foreign Relations fit in?

a reply to: Bassago

Yet you don't tire of stating how evil Ukraine is, calling them Nazis and fascists. As has been stated before, this is not a Russian website. You don't get to voice just your opinion and silence everyone who doesn't agree with you.

a reply to: Bassago

Maybe the US/EU/NATO/IMF crew would like to give them a hand writing it.

They are the main culprits behind the planning so might as well give Idiot Junta further help in presenting the thesis.

Btw, tomorrow's meeting with Putin, is Porky Poro's LAST CHANCE to salvage something out of the mess that Idiots Junta and himself made out of the situation in the East.

LAST CHANCE before Eastern regions breaks away for good.

a reply to: Bassago

* - Russia is in fact to blame for the crisis when they invaded Ukraine after providing lies to justify their invasion. The justifications the Russians provided have never been backed up by evidence. The UN has asked repeatedly for Russia to provide said evidence and it has not. Its just like the Russian UN ambassador stating they received a letter from Yanukovych asking for military intervention. The letter was never provided to the UN.

* - Yanukovych went on the record stating Crimea was a part of Ukraine and will always be a part of Ukraine and called for Russia to respect Ukraine's territorial integrity. Shortly after that media interview we have not heard from Yanukovych since.


* - The US/EU offered Ukraine options. Russia offered Ukraine options. They went with the EU/US because they people of Ukraine did not want to be under Russian occupation for another 50 years.

* - NATO enlargement is not the issue and as I have already proven you wrong before, NATO never promised not to enlarge / head east.


* - The money given to Ukraine was not used to destabilize or overthrow. Anyone reading the ICH, which is where the false story came from, and subsequently seized on by individuals who cannot think for themselves, decide to repeat it without ever researching it.

By the way Russia also provided aid to Ukraine yet I notice how you guys intentionally ignore that info. Not to mention the blatant lies about US officials being involved in what occurred. Ironically enough we have evidence of Russian involvement, something again you and others ignore.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Yet you don't tire of stating how evil Ukraine is, calling them Nazis and fascists. As has been stated before, this is not a Russian website. You don't get to voice just your opinion and silence everyone who doesn't agree with you.

Actually I like the country of Ukraine and I really like my Ukrainian neighbors as well. As far as name calling the Nazis and fascists I just call them as I see them.

Russian website?? Ha pretty funny, I never wanted to silence anyone. Simply discuss the points made in the OP. Rant away, just stick to the topic.

originally posted by: victor7
They are the main culprits behind the planning so might as well give Idiot Junta further help in presenting the thesis.

Btw, tomorrow's meeting with Putin, is Porky Poro's LAST CHANCE to salvage something out of the mess that Idiots Junta and himself made out of the situation in the East.

LAST CHANCE before Eastern regions breaks away for good.

Prove it. Step by step with sources.

You guys keep stating it but never support it. Bear in mind the moment you invoke the phone call released on youtube then you must accept the youtube footage of discussion between rebels on shooting down MH17 as well as the Russian cooperation int hat action.

a reply to: Bassago

And you failed to address my post and its content. Stop deflecting.. You made the claims, support them.

originally posted by: DJW001
They were not the ones who annexed Crimea and encouraged Russian carpetbggers to set up shop in the East.

Excuse me...but; Crimea seceded from the Ukraine. They were already an autonomous state, and that was their right. They held an election, the idea passed, apparently by a large margin. The Crimeans were probably ecstatic;. since they have been wanting to be part of Russia for nearly 100 years.

It was several days before Russia actually agreed to accept them...

I can't speak to their motivation, but, I have to wonder; "What was the EU deal that Ukraine rejected?"

a reply to: tanka418

No Crimea did not. As has been stated time and time again the vote held was illegal, BOTH under Ukraine's Constitution AND Crimea's constitution. Pro Russian / Russians seized Crimea's government and arrested the elected Prime Minister, appointing, not electing but appointing, a new one who answered to Russia.

Secondly you have Putin's Presidential council on the Crimean elections stating they were false.

What you had was Russian troops with no insignias seizing control of Crimea before the illegal vote.

That is an invasion.

Russia is illegally occupying Crimea. Something I notice the false CFR op post failed to consider.