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CFR: Ukraine Crisis, It's the Wests Fault

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posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: tanka418




Sorry man, but, it looks to me like Putin had nothing at all t do with this...The article clearly states; "Captured" military equipment...that is as opposed to "imported"...which would make all that equipment Ukrainian in origin...NOT RUSSIAN!


Do you see the source...of course it isn't going to say any Russian military equipment was used.

Now I have been looking for more sources, and there seems to only be that one...wonder why?

Just like Putin had nothing to do with Crimea and the eastern separatists...is that the type of "had nothing to do with it" that your talking about?


Did you read the source?!?

It rather clearly indicates that the only equipment the rebels have is what they have taken from the Ukrainian Army...

Perhaps you were confused because the Russian news is referring to the "rebels" as the DPR Army...and with all that captured equipment they indeed are.




posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




They have formed big units and changed from guerrilla tactics to big operations with those captured weaponry, and they capture more and more. De Ukrainian army is not that good, if so they would have crushed the Separatists already. Motivation with most units also doesn`t seem to be that high (except maybe at the fascist units). That`s why they need to resort to the shelling of civilians.


Guerrilla tactics are good for defensive attrition like Iraqi insurgents did to US in Baghdad and around.

The problem with Ukraine Army is they are feeling betrayed by the central command, time and again. 72nd Brigade was left on its own for days to fend off artillery from Russia and frontal battery from the rebels. Same happened to 30th mechanized and 79th Brigade. Soldiers are angry of being thrown into situations where they can do little other than to take pounding or surrender. They also complain that Russians are using artillery on them and they cannot reply back.

Also, Terrorist Junta in Kiev does not want to let go of eastern part because that is where all the gas is, mining industries and most of the technology firms are. In the eastern part, lots of Russian money is also invested. That is the main reason of fighting a war over the east. It is not that Junta has any affinity for the people of that region as seen by careless artillery and mortar being used in civilian areas.

Best for Kiev would have been something similar to what Yanukovich did: join the customs unions, refuse NATO membership, get nice monetary aid and investment from Russia, keep Crimea and get annual rent plus political bonus. This could also have resulted in lots of agricultural produce imported by Russia from EU/West to be replaced by those produced in Ukraine (atleast lots of them).

Even in west Ukraine there are majority of folks who are Slavic and follow Orthodox Christianity. They should not have any issues assimilating with the Russian folks. The outer map bulge of ancient Galicia is where real fascists reside, they are not Slavic and follow non Orthodox form of Christianity. These are fascists who need to be given a new home of Galicia Republic or become the slaves of Greater Poland. Even among these, the ones who want to live as common human beings with harmony and socially responsible attitude, they can be welcome to stay and seek future in a normal human society.

End of the problem for the long term.


edit on 24-8-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: Nikola014




As we said many times before, civil war in Ukraine was started by the west so they could overthrow the pro-Russian president. Just a totally blind person can't see that. I think that at that point, sovereignty of Ukraine has been compromised by the west! Some might call that indirect invasion!


Actually it was the Parliament that started it...


Many members of Ukraine’s parliament now say that they were so exhausted with the President’s back-and-forth moves that they decided to finally get rid of him.


www.thedailybeast.com...



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
You can`t make this stuff up :

Europe needs a Ballistic Missile ‘Shield’ to protect against humanitarian aid convoys.

WTF ?

en.ria.ru...


Not really no... But what Russia needs is a distraction to their people while they continue their attacks on Ukraine while demonizing the west.

Now, lets see how much of the supplies the rebels will take from the people to use for themselves, like they have been consistently doing.
edit on 24-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:32 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
You can`t make this stuff up :

Europe needs a Ballistic Missile ‘Shield’ to protect against humanitarian aid convoys.

WTF ?

en.ria.ru...


Not really no... But what Russia needs is a distraction to their people while they continue their attacks on Ukraine while demonizing the west.

Now, lets see how much of the supplies the rebels will take from the people to use for themselves, like they have been consistently doing.


You make it sound like the DPR Army, and other rebel organizations are outsiders; people from somewhere else who traveled to the Ukraine just to fight.

When the reality is that these evil rebels are in fat the people of Eastern Ukraine. These "rebels" were once shop owners, factory workers, students, retired people, normal folk. Just like the people who fought the American Revolution. They aren't some force from somewhere else making the lives of the "civilians" of Eastern Ukraine miserable; they are the civilians of Eastern Ukraine (or at least were...civilians)

Although, I think what I find the most remarkable here is TPTB throwing their "dog" (us/west) under the bus. Is truly funny as hell!



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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It's sure a good thing those residents of Donetsk know that this is all Russia's fault for starting this war right? Oh wait perhaps they actually know better (being there and all.)

'On Sunday, the rebels force-marched Ukrainians soldiers through the centre of Donetsk.

Crowds lined the streets chanting "fascists" as the dishevelled-looking prisoners walked by. Some people threw bottles at the captives, Reuters news agency reports.

BBC - Donetsk rebels parade captured soldiers

Here's Congressman Dana Rohrabacher questioning Victoria Nuland pointing out that Yanukovych was democratically elected as President of Ukraine among other interesting things like Neo-Nazis and just how much money we spent on Ukraine. His skepticism of Nuland's answers and the sarcasm of some of his answers answer a lot of questions.


edit on 943pm1818pm42014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: tanka418

They are.. In case you missed it they are Russian. The "Leadership" of the DPR fled back to Russia and are Russian citizens.


edit on 24-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:56 PM
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a reply to: Bassago

Parading prisoners is a violation of international law and the rules of warfare. Another consistent disregard by the Russian rebels in Ukraine. As for the people they will chant for anyone when they are threatened. All we have to do is look at the Soviet Union and current day Russian for examples of that.

Even more so since we have proven examples of the Russian leadership in the rebel areas who were holding drumheads and holding summary judgment / executions for petty crimes. Those people executed were done so under Soviet Law going back to the late 1940's.


edit on 24-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: victor7




Also, Terrorist Junta in Kiev does not want to let go of eastern part because that is where all the gas is, mining industries and most of the technology firms are.


And how is that a problem, as it is in Ukraine?



Even in west Ukraine there are majority of folks who are Slavic and follow Orthodox Christianity. They should not have any issues assimilating with the Russian folks.


So you think RUssia is going to formerly invade Ukraine and make it out to west Ukraine, because that would be a very poor decision on Putin's part.



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:04 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: tanka418

They are.. In case you missed it they are Russian. The "Leadership" of the DPR fled back to Russia and are Russian citizens.



Perhaps I did...you have any evidence?



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:09 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



Parading prisoners is a violation of international law and the rules of warfare.


If Ukrainian conscript troops would have shelled my house they would probably get a lot worse provided that I survived. Anyway International law went out the window with the western orchestrated overthrow of Ukraine's previous elected leader. At this point to paraphrase Hilary Clinton:
    What difference does it make?



As for the people they will chant for anyone when they are threatened.


They didn't look threatened to me, they looked angry. Threatened people would chant, angry people throw stuff. Probably because the Ukraine army was shelling their homes, apartments and businesses. Not to mention all those innocent civilians that have been killed.



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:17 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra




Parading prisoners is a violation of international law and the rules of warfare. Another consistent disregard by the Russian rebels in Ukraine. As for the people they will chant for anyone when they are threatened. All we have to do is look at the Soviet Union and current day Russian for examples of that.


These are war criminals, fascists from volunteer brigades who have Nazi type oaths and openly flaunt Nazi symbols. They bring small children to sick Nazi events and delay the humanitarian aid for upto 10 days or more until the supplier decides to do what is needful for the welfare of the human beings. No harm parading these types and more so when they shelled the civilian people repeatedly.

People will chant when threatened is similar to people will sit in Maidan and shout slogans when paid for by the Western NGOs. Heck, they can make whole months of wages in couple of days at most so why not sit around and have some chit chatting fun.

West needs to be taught a very severe lesson in not poking its nose in vulnerable countries and provoke civil wars and have common folks suffer.




posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:18 PM
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a reply to: tanka418

Aug 14th - Ukraine fighting: Rebel official resigns; shells fall on Donetsk


In the contested city of Luhansk, the self-declared governor of the rebels there resigned in a video posted Thursday on social media, saying that the region was "at the edge of a human catastrophe" and that injuries he'd suffered have kept him from focusing sufficiently on the job.

Valeriy Bolotov didn't specify his injuries, but rebels previously said he'd been wounded in a firefight with Ukrainian forces in May.

"The aftermath (of my) injury does not let me fully work on the post to the benefit of the Luhansk people in this difficult war time," said Bolotov, who said he was offering his position to the Luhansk rebels' "defense minister," Igor Plotnitskiy.




The defense minister of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People's Republic resigned, according to a statement released online by the republic Thursday. The Cabinet accepted Igor Strelkov's resignation, saying he had transferred to another position, according to the statement, which did not provide further details.


ATS Topic here - www.abovetopsecret.com...

Russian citizen Alexander Borodai said he was stepping down in favour of a local field commander, Alexander Zakharchenko, after finishing his work as a "start-upper".


Documents Show Rebel Justice In East Ukraine Was Bureaucratic, Swift, And Merciless


SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — The men with guns came for Alexei Pichko in mid-afternoon, before the usual evening barrage of shells flew over this decrepit suburb of dilapidated shacks and half-burnt houses. When his mother went to look for him at the rebel headquarters in the security services building, they told her he was under arrest, but alive and well.

One month later, the men who took him have fled their stronghold in this sleepy east Ukrainian town, unable to sustain the Ukrainian army’s barrage of mortar fire, and retreated to Donetsk, the provincial capital. The building where he was held captive is now half-destroyed, lined with mulch and detritus. The only evidence of what has happened to him is on files found lying on the floor, coated in a thick film of dust, signed and stamped by the separatists’ feared commander.

“By order of the military-field tribunal of the [Donetsk People’s Republic] militia on 17.06.2014,” it reads, “I hereby proclaim that Aleksey Borisovich Pichko, resident of the city of Slovyansk, is sentenced for looting to an exceptional measure of punishment — execution by firing squad — on the basis of the Decree of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR ‘on martial law’ from June 22nd, 1941.”

“The sentence has been carried out.”


The three-month struggle for Slovyansk — which became the stronghold of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic when armed men seized it in April — has made the once-nondescript town of 119,000 all but unrecognizable. Buildings are smashed across town. Half the population fled. Those without the means to do so turned on each other, deprived of electricity, running water, and contact with the outside world.

Detailed transcripts from Pichko’s case and two other tribunals, however, appear to show how the militia’s enigmatic commander, a former Russian intelligence officer known by the nom de guerre of Igor Strelkov, kept order in the city through summary wartime justice. Theft was prosecuted under a decree devised by Stalin at the start of World War II. Trials were held summarily under the jurisdiction of men known by nicknames like Nose, Gray-Hair, and Baloo. Punishments were carried out “ruthlessly and decisively.”



Ukraine: Russian Rebel Leader Quits


Ukraine’s Russian rebel leader called it quits yesterday, and named his own replacement. Alexander Borodai is the self-proclaimed prime minister of the so-called Donetsk Republic. In a news conference, Borodai announced his resignation and appointed an ethnic Ukrainian as the new prime minister.

Borodai is a former Russian military commander who served alongside Igor Girkin, known in eastern Ukraine as Igor Strelkov and whose name translates as “the shooter.” It was Strelkov who allegedly used Russian social media to take credit for shooting down Malaysian flight 17 last month, until rebels realized that the plane was a civilian passenger aircraft.

Borodai and Strelkov led pro-Russian separatists fighters in Transnistria, the breakaway province of Moldova. Both men have lamented the collapse of the Soviet Union and spoken of reconstituting some form of Russian supremacy in the former Soviet republics across the region. Borodai has run several newspapers as an editor in Moscow, and several Russian media reports say that he purportedly served as a former deputy director with the rank of major-general in the FSB (KGB). Borodai has consistently denied any connection to the FSB.

The Kyiv Post has reported that Borodai recently returned from Moscow where he was supposedly conducting business related to the Donetsk Republic. Borodai introduced his replacement, Alexander Zakharchenko, by saying, “I am a Muscovite.” Borodai then explained that it was time for the movement to be led by a Donetsk native.”

Read more at guardianlv.com...




edit on 24-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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originally posted by: victor7

West needs to be taught a very severe lesson in not poking its nose in vulnerable countries and provoke civil wars and have common folks suffer.




LOLOLOLOL... Even when im having a low day you always find the right thing to make me laugh and brighten it up.

Thanks



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h




So you think RUssia is going to formerly invade Ukraine and make it out to west Ukraine, because that would be a very poor decision on Putin's part.


Wait and watch, NovoRossiya will be little bit beyond Kiev bordering at that bulge near Poland. Galicia Republic will be a small patch or might as well join into Poland or Hungary in parts.

So much for licking the boots of the west and aspiring to tounge wipe the boots of the Nazi SS......again !!




posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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a reply to: Bassago

No one looks unhappy in pro Russian regions.. I would not appear unhappy either if I am going to be killed if I don't smile and support the terrorist Russians who occupy Ukrainian land.

Documents Show Rebel Justice In East Ukraine Was Bureaucratic, Swift, And Merciless


SLOVYANSK, Ukraine — The men with guns came for Alexei Pichko in mid-afternoon, before the usual evening barrage of shells flew over this decrepit suburb of dilapidated shacks and half-burnt houses. When his mother went to look for him at the rebel headquarters in the security services building, they told her he was under arrest, but alive and well.

One month later, the men who took him have fled their stronghold in this sleepy east Ukrainian town, unable to sustain the Ukrainian army’s barrage of mortar fire, and retreated to Donetsk, the provincial capital. The building where he was held captive is now half-destroyed, lined with mulch and detritus. The only evidence of what has happened to him is on files found lying on the floor, coated in a thick film of dust, signed and stamped by the separatists’ feared commander.

“By order of the military-field tribunal of the [Donetsk People’s Republic] militia on 17.06.2014,” it reads, “I hereby proclaim that Aleksey Borisovich Pichko, resident of the city of Slovyansk, is sentenced for looting to an exceptional measure of punishment — execution by firing squad — on the basis of the Decree of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR ‘on martial law’ from June 22nd, 1941.”

“The sentence has been carried out.”


The three-month struggle for Slovyansk — which became the stronghold of the self-proclaimed Donetsk People’s Republic when armed men seized it in April — has made the once-nondescript town of 119,000 all but unrecognizable. Buildings are smashed across town. Half the population fled. Those without the means to do so turned on each other, deprived of electricity, running water, and contact with the outside world.

Detailed transcripts from Pichko’s case and two other tribunals, however, appear to show how the militia’s enigmatic commander, a former Russian intelligence officer known by the nom de guerre of Igor Strelkov, kept order in the city through summary wartime justice. Theft was prosecuted under a decree devised by Stalin at the start of World War II. Trials were held summarily under the jurisdiction of men known by nicknames like Nose, Gray-Hair, and Baloo. Punishments were carried out “ruthlessly and decisively.”



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
So much for licking the boots of the west and aspiring to tounge wipe the boots of the Nazi SS......again !!



Yeah.. now they can do it to the Russian SS and Adolph Putin.
edit on 24-8-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:35 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


Aleksey Borisovich Pichko, resident of the city of Slovyansk, is sentenced for looting to an exceptional measure of punishment — execution by firing squad — on the basis of the Decree of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR ‘on martial law’ from June 22nd, 1941.”


So what? They executed looters in a war zone. At least they had a trial, during Hurricane Katrina people were just shot forget the trial.

Or are you pointing out that these are evil Stalinists? The US does the same, we just pretend that we're holy. Nobody believes it though. Well mostly nobody.



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:36 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

In last 23 years Russia has given $200B of various subsidies and aid to Ukraine. Nazi attitude does not confirm with that gesture and kindness. Sorry but your argument is pretty low graded..........as most of the times.

Btw, in all fairness to POWs, parading only the officer core would have been preferable as they have more authority to take decisions and throw in humane judgement. Mere privates are very vulnerable to harsh treatment if they disobey the orders and more so in the ex-commie part of the world.



posted on Aug, 24 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Wow...in all of that all that was really said, at least by anybody that has any real credibility, is that a wounded leader resigned. There was absolutely nothing about anybody "returning" to Russia, nor that any of the leadership was in fact a Russian national. Russian descent, Russian speaking, yes, but still Ukrainian; not Russian.

Your own sources belie you...



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