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It's over... The balance has tipped and the welfare state has won... For now...

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posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:48 PM
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a reply to: Gozer

Finally a voice for sanity in this thread. Once people begin to realize that obstruction of competition and economics is the root cause of our sufferings, the sufferings can end.




posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204
If you care to take a look around the world today you will find the fairest, happiest nations are those with high universal welfare and high taxes. The most unequal , unfair, unhappiest nations (US,UK etc) are those with lower taxes and lower welfare. Ironically those with "nominal" lower welfare have huge welfare bills due to the inequality and pathetic wages !!!!! You could not make it up.

However, in order to acknowledge this you need to dispense with tired, failed laissez-faire capitalist system. But no, the hardened capitalist blames targetted penny pinching welfare, the poor and regulation. It's not socialism that has increased these over the last 100 years but governments OF ALL COLOURS due to the necessity of tackling capitalisms failures and refusal to change the system.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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originally posted by: Mirthful Me
Perhaps that will "snap" you out of your misguided bliss...


Not likely when outsourcing has taken a lot of decent paying jobs and are using foreign workers at a fraction of the cost. AND you are equating a few TOTALLY rich individuals to a whole country's welfare system? That has been burdened by these outsourcing assholes? Do the math by person and you'll see the difference.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: Gozer



You want manufacturing jobs to come back to America? Elect politicians that lower the cost of doing business and incentivize businesses/manufacturers to stay in the US via competitive tax rates/regulations.


I agree with what you have said, but it will be impossible to get those sorts of politicians in office when the corporations can fund the campaigns of people they find suitable and lobby them for legislation that benefits the corporation.

We have to change that immediately. Corporations are not people and do not have any right to affect a government that is meant to represent the people...not big business.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Mirthful Me

I take issue with your source. It threw veteran's benefits in there. Veteran's benefits are earned through the soldier's enlistment and are owed to the person. It's not a benefit it's a damn obligation!


Obviously you didn't bother to read the entire article, because if you would have, then you would have read this:



Subtract the 3,297,000 who were receiving veterans' benefits from the total, and that leaves 150,026,000 people receiving non-veterans' benefits.

The 153,323,000 total benefit-takers at the end of 2012, said the Census Bureau, equaled 49.5 percent of the population. The 150,026,000 taking benefits other than veterans' benefits equaled about 48.5 percent of the population.


www.cnsnews.com...

Veterans were removed from the final analysis.

On a side note, I am a veteran.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: yorkshirelad


I assume you're speaking of certain Scandinavian countries which at first glance appear mostly socialistic, but in reality they are not.

Yes, they have high tax rates and also dispense large amounts of welfare, but they also enjoy a more capitalistic market than we do in the United States. Businesses are mostly free from regulation, protectionism, and nationalization. Scandinavian countries rank higher in economic, financial, and business freedom than most others in the world. That is what their success is attributed to. Another success of a free market.




edit on 20-8-2014 by Pants3204 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: xuenchen



Low wages are the result of "people" willing to work low and keep their own standards low.

And why are people willing to work low? Because there are no other jobs available or the companies refuse to pay a livable wage.


Corporations on the National and International levels are Progressive models.

Let's see some proof of progressives calling for jobs to be moved overseas.



Small independent businesses are not in the Progressive model.

The are more a progressive model than the model that the GOP supports that squeezes out the small companies.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 02:59 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204


Once people begin to realize that obstruction of competition and economics is the root cause of our sufferings, the sufferings can end.

This I can agree with.

ECONOMICS that don't work. Conglomerates prevent 'free market competition'.

MOST of the world economy is "owned" by a very few - just a handful - of major players.


Yes, they have high tax rates and also dispense large amounts of welfare, but they also enjoy a more capitalistic market than we do in the United States.

And they WILLINGLY pay those taxes, rather than avoiding them.


edit on 8/20/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me

Ok fair enough. You got me. Usually I try to at least skim a whole article, but I let my emotions get the better of me when I read the veteran's benefits thing, being a veteran myself.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204


I assume you're speaking of certain Scandinavian countries which at first glance appear mostly socialistic, but in reality they are not.

At first, middle, and LAST glance, they are doing very well - and are Social Democratic setups.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:02 PM
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AND, if you take these stats, I found some that said 4% were on welfare(maybe that's total welfare and not just a portion of them), one has to ask WHY so many QUALIFY for these benefits. That's a systemic problem. Not one of just "handing out money."



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid
Not likely when outsourcing has taken a lot of decent paying jobs and are using foreign workers at a fraction of the cost. AND you are equating a few TOTALLY rich individuals to a whole country's welfare system? That has been burdened by these outsourcing assholes? Do the math by person and you'll see the difference.


Forest...

Trees...

You're off topic, and responding to a reply that was made to demonstrate how clueless some of those participating here are. You may want to reread the original post, and my reply again... Carefully... Most of the replies in this thread are unsubstantiated drivel, devoid of credibility or sourced with progressive websites that are channeling Karl Marx...



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs

How do you figure? Besides their tax and welfare policies, they are mostly capitalistic in nature as far as economics is concerned.

Obviously if we wish to follow the model of the Scandinavians, the solution isn't to spend more. We already spend nearly as much per dollar in the United States as they do.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Mirthful Me

Ok fair enough. You got me. Usually I try to at least skim a whole article, but I let my emotions get the better of me when I read the veteran's benefits thing, being a veteran myself.


Thank you for your service and your sincere reply...



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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edit on 8/20/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: ugh. Don't argue with mods.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:06 PM
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a reply to: Gozer



You want manufacturing jobs to come back to America? Elect politicians that lower the cost of doing business and incentivize businesses/manufacturers to stay in the US via competitive tax rates/regulations.

Obama offered to lower the taxes for companies to bring jobs back but the Republicans stopped it. It is the free trade agreement that helped to kill our economy.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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originally posted by: Mirthful Me

originally posted by: intrepid
Not likely when outsourcing has taken a lot of decent paying jobs and are using foreign workers at a fraction of the cost. AND you are equating a few TOTALLY rich individuals to a whole country's welfare system? That has been burdened by these outsourcing assholes? Do the math by person and you'll see the difference.


Forest...

Trees...

You're off topic, and responding to a reply that was made to demonstrate how clueless some of those participating here are. You may want to reread the original post, and my reply again... Carefully... Most of the replies in this thread are unsubstantiated drivel, devoid of credibility or sourced with progressive websites that are channeling Karl Marx...


I'm off topic?
We're talking about welfare, right? AND I wasn't the one pointing at members and their "sources".



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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a reply to: Mirthful Me Let's not forget that even with these bloated numbers the corporate welfare dollar amount is still greater than that of the people.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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originally posted by: Mirthful Me

originally posted by: intrepid
Not likely when outsourcing has taken a lot of decent paying jobs and are using foreign workers at a fraction of the cost. AND you are equating a few TOTALLY rich individuals to a whole country's welfare system? That has been burdened by these outsourcing assholes? Do the math by person and you'll see the difference.


Forest...

Trees...

You're off topic, and responding to a reply that was made to demonstrate how clueless some of those participating here are. You may want to reread the original post, and my reply again... Carefully... Most of the replies in this thread are unsubstantiated drivel, devoid of credibility or sourced with progressive websites that are channeling Karl Marx...


How typical. When the people who kneel to the wealthy run out of replies they always pull out the Marx card.



posted on Aug, 20 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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a reply to: Pants3204


Obviously if we wish to follow the model of the Scandinavians, the solution isn't to spend more.

No, you are right, it isn't. The solution is to SHARE more.

I'm out at this point.



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