Michael Brown: my opinion

C'mon?

If you guys can't see that it is those who administer policy are at fault, there is no hope.

The only way to change people and how well of a citizen he may become is entirely on the shoulders of those making policies, and just how they are instilled into the general public.

"Let's keep a certain social group in constant turmoil with the other social groups" verses;
"Let's create an avenue where all social groups are treated equally."

Demonize the demons for once for Christ's sake!

originally posted by: HomerinNC

INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY

The same can be said for Officer Wilson, correct?

Absolutely! I am firmly on the fence here. I can be pretty certain that NONE if us knows what happened. But people are trying to find Brown guilty of something. Same as with Trayvon Martin.

But Michael Brown is NOT on trial here. If anyone is going to trial, it's Wilson. And he, too, is innocent until proven guilty.

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Secondary to that....what kind of person goes looking for physical altercation while wearing sandals?

dunno what difference his footware actually makes but :

if you are waering sandles when you encounter the police - then however its resolved - you are going to do it wearing sandles

Have you ever done much in the way of scuffling and fighting? Not my favorite past time....but in the alpha charged part of the world I live in, it was just another way of talking things out.

I can promise you 2 footwear options are inferior: sandals and cowboy boots.

a reply to: cloudsstar

Quite a few inaccuracies in your assessments.

Other than that,

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

as I said - if you meet a police officer when you are wearing sandles - then however that encounter is resolved - you are going to have to do it in sandles - its not rocket science

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Secondary to that....what kind of person goes looking for physical altercation while wearing sandals?

dunno what difference his footware actually makes but :

if you are waering sandles when you encounter the police - then however its resolved - you are going to do it wearing sandles

Have you ever done much in the way of scuffling and fighting? Not my favorite past time....but in the alpha charged part of the world I live in, it was just another way of talking things out.

I can promise you 2 footwear options are inferior: sandals and cowboy boots.

Lol. Sandals are the worst thing for fighting. I got into a bit of a scuffle years ago at an outdoor venue and literally shoved myself out of my own sandals.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

As a police officer I have been attacked or dealt with people that have attacked another while wearing sandals, slides, flip flops, sneakers, work boots, cowboy boots, Vans, Nikes, Top Siders, Crocs, bare feet and even naked.

The fact that he was wearing sandals really has zero evidentiary value.

a reply to: HomerinNC

So, now that we find out he shove the store clerk, maybe we should find the body and shoot it again?

Just what ever comes from demonizing a dead man?

a reply to: teamcommander

I am not demonizing him, I am pointing out things I feel need to be said to the people edifying him.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: chiefsmom

That has been mentioned several times in threads I've read. But it doesn't really mean anything. It's possible Brown reacted because of that. It's possible he ran and turned around and got filled with lead. It's possible He "bum-rushed" the cop. It's possible that just about anything happened.

I'd like to approach each of the two main issues with a level of logic that it appears MANY people are not.

A. Brown bum-rushed the cop
1. Not likely
2. He was bound for college, this would severely hurt his chances of attending
3. Ferguson apparently has issues with white police violence toward black civilians
4. Growing up there I highly doubt Michael Brown would have acted in a manner that would willingly put him in the cross hairs of police violence

B. Brown tried to run
1. Most likely
2. He was bound for college, he didn't want to be arrested for stealing cigars
3. He would also run because he didn't want to be a victim of police violence
4. Cop didn't know he stole cigars

Among each of these scenarios I believe option B. However, option B has actions/reactions that would lead to the running and being pursued and shot. Brown's friend told the story as the cop grabbing Brown through the window of the police cruiser and Brown trying to break free and run (which got him pursued and shot).

If Brown thought the cop already knew about the cigars he would be fearful of two things - 1. college 2. police brutality. These two factors would make this young man make a decision to try to break free from the LEO and run. Because of these two factors the story of Brown grabbing the gun of the officer or even fighting the officer diminishes as the likelihood of attending college goes down and the chance for police brutality goes up.

The question remains why did the officer choose to pursue and shoot?

Having said all of this, as you all know, I was not there and did not witness any of it. However, it's important to examine the opportunity costs that Michael Brown would have been facing as he made choices leading up to his shooting.

a reply to: WCmutant

I think Brown was headed for a trade school.

The absence of the "college" name is visibly noticed.

I doubt it was Yale or Princeton.

a reply to: WCmutant

2. He was bound for college, this would severely hurt his chances of attending

The 'college' he was bound for, if in fact he was really planning to attend, would most likely accept him anyway.... as long as he had the tuition fee to give them.
Even if not....

He was bound for college, he didn't want to be arrested for stealing cigars

okay..... So if he didn't want to be arrested for stealing cigars.....

Why the HELL did he STEAL CIGARS?

a reply to: caladonea

There are just as many or more witnesses that say Michael Brown "rushed toward" the officer before he was shot. The question becomes which witnesses are truthful and which ones are lying. And if this video exists that shows MB shot while he was surrendering don't you think that would be all over the news days ago. I don't think that any such video exists.

a reply to: TorqueyThePig

Obviously, and since we aren't conducting any legal proceedings, evidentiary value does little for the discussion in a thread entitled with the word "Opinion".

Were I to never have had a police record and decided that today was the day I was to attack a police officer, I like my chances of survival far less in sandals than in sneakers. It is a statement that I am surprised anyone has taken exception with, as it seemed to go without saying.

Im saying nothing about guilt or innocence. Just commenting on what I see as something else out of the ordinary and that makes me wonder what happened.

Having never been a cop, I can only assume that it isn't normal for someone with no criminal background to try to kill a cop in broad daylight while standing in the middle of a residential street. But maybe I am wrong, and what he did was totally normal (and I just live in an abnormal part of the world).

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

So here we go:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

He has some felony arrest action from his adult life, and a sealed juvenile record. Presuming the news is accurate, that solves that mystery.

ETA; it looks like that is incorrect, as well. Not the same dude:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

We are back to "Michael Brown, the Angel".

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

You gave your opinion and I gave mine. Simple as that.

a reply to: butcherguy

I think you miss the point...

1. Someone that has the intention to do more than be a "gangster" and attend a college (traditional or trade) is showing intent to do something more with their life.

2. Intent to do something more with your life doesn't explain why he would rush a cop that has a gun.

Again, opportunity costs and motivations.

Why would he steal cigars? Because he thought he could get away with it. One last ditch effort with that friend to prove he's tough before he goes off to college?

I knew a guy that was attending a Division 1 university on a football scholarship that returned home during the summer of his first year and stole a case of beer from a grocery store, just walked out with it. When clerks came into the parking lot to confront him and possibly get his information he told them to get back in the store before he beat their arses. He was obviously a big guy, definitely as tall as Michael Brown, not sure about weight but prob. more muscular from training.

I'm sure that sort of thing never happens anymore... hah!

So, why does it happen? Does it matter more that this was a black guy stealing cigars? If an athlete does it he's just being a jock!?

Our society is a double edge sword when it comes to race and attitude towards similar offenses.

Side thought:
What if Eric Holder going to Ferguson, MO is like John McCain to Libya, Syria, and Ukraine before SHTF in those countries?

a reply to: WCmutant

Just because one wants to or attends college does not make them a good person immune from committing crimes.

Just like being in the military or in law enforcemet does not make you a good person.

Matter of fact the military has been having issues with gang members in the ranks.

usmilitary.about.com...

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
He was only 18 for 2 or 3 months. I would hope that he didn't generate a big rap sheet in that amount of time.
Previous to that, he was a minor, so we really don't know about that.

a reply to: WCmutant
I think that you miss my point.
You say that logic dictates that the most likely scenario would involve Mr. Brown doing what he could to avoid trouble.

The fact that he was stealing cigars blows a big hole in that theory.

'Oh, but he thought he could get away with it.'
What else did he think he could get away with?

Does anyone have a photocopy of his college admission forms? I know that Vatterott Educational Centers will not provide anything, but the family surely has his acceptance letter?