"I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me."

a reply to: Dingo80


That basically sums it up.

We are being conditioned to follow what Sunil Dutta says in his article obey right or wrong failure to obey its your fault if The ENFORCERS kill you. You didn't follow orders .

God this country is sounding more and more like what we fought against in WW2 or the 40years of cold war and Red China. We are becoming what we despised in the rest of the world.

If the cops violate your rights, get a lawyer and become a rich guy or gal.
In a true police state, there is no recourse except nursing your wounds.

Act like an a**, be treated like one.

Nothing further need be said.

a reply to: TinfoilTP

One problem with that answer: I've seen someone who reported an attempted rape by an LEO run out of town- if she'd stayed she would have died. She was being stalked, receiving beeper messages that read 187, and when her neighbor chased a couple of guys out of her backyard at gunpoint that was it, U-haul the very next day.

It was brought to her attention during the matter that a few years prior, someone who was narcing on the cops committed suicide, and the suicide weapon was found wiped clean of prints and hidden in the cushions of the victims couch.

originally posted by: The Vagabond
a reply to: TinfoilTP

One problem with that answer: I've seen someone who reported an attempted rape by an LEO run out of town- if she'd stayed she would have died. She was being stalked, receiving beeper messages that read 187, and when her neighbor chased a couple of guys out of her backyard at gunpoint that was it, U-haul the very next day.

It was brought to her attention during the matter that a few years prior, someone who was narcing on the cops committed suicide, and the suicide weapon was found wiped clean of prints and hidden in the cushions of the victims couch.

Are you sure you weren't stoned watching an episode of TJ Hooker?

That is deeply entrenched corruption, happens everywhere especially cities. At least she got to move away, in a true police state she would have been found wherever she went, just like the mafia does. Cronyism can happen anywhere but it is not legal.

Let's look at it this way.

A police officer deals with the negative aspects of life every day. They are called to domestic disputes, robberies, fights, etc. This builds a negative attitude in them. I get that. My father was a cop for 26 years. I could tell his view of the world was negative due to all of the things he dealt with on a daily basis. Yes, police do put their lives on the line BECAUSE they have to deal with all of the negative aspects of the world. I think we can all agree with that. BUT. This job was a choice. They chose to accept that risk by working for the police. It is an occupational hazard that "comes with the job". This is not some new phenomenon.

So yes.. cops deal with crap daily and that puts them in a bad mood. And yes, the people they deal with on a daily basis can be royal pricks. Not all. Some. Just as not all cops are bad, not all citizens that police deal with are bad.

This "Police Officer" who wrote this op-ed, seems to take the stance that, because he deals with pressure on a daily basis, and because, by the nature of his job, he can get harmed, he DEMANDS to be obeyed. Don't question him, don't give him an attitude, don't walk towards him aggressively, don't make a fist, don't use a hostile tone, etc. Again.. remember.. he chose this job.

Let's look at a different profession for a second. Let's say.. a cashier at a store. They too deal with the public. They too have to deal with nasty people on a daily basis. Customers are rude. Customers are idiots. Customers are pushy. Now, does this give the cashier the right to be a jerk? Does this give the cashier the right to give EVERY customer an attitude? No. Of course not. You would expect the cashier to be fired. Now obviously I am not comparing the job of a cashier to the job of a police officer. I am just trying to make a connection between the expectations of dealing with "customers". We as citizens are no different than "customers" to police.

One time I was pulled over for making a U-turn in front of a school. I didn't realize at the time that it was illegal. No big deal right? Well.. when the cop caught up with me and put his lights on, I pulled over. He jumped out of the car, with this gun drawn. Why? What gave him the reason to feel that I was enough of a threat that he had to pull a firearm on me? Why, especially lately, does it seem cops always expect to have a lethal altercation?

Police have firearms, because they need to protect themselves. If they feel threatened by you, they will use whatever force they have available to protect themselves. As citizens, why are we not afforded the same rights? If I have done nothing wrong, and a police officer approaches me with a drawn firearm, aiming at me.. don't "I" now feel as if my life is threatened? This is the problem. Police can beat you, taze you, pepper spray you, and shoot you if they feel threatened. And they will get away with it. If you so much as brush up against a police officer, you will be arrested for assault. Where am I going with this? I'm not sure. But you can see the f%$#ed up nature of things here can you not?

Police officers... you want to be treated with respect? You want to not feel threatened? Stop this behavior then. Your job is supposed to be to protect & serve the people. (Even though we all know that isn't true, and that there is a difference between a "police officer" and a "police man").

Try treating others with respect. Try not tasing, beating and killing everyone you see. Try not murdering our family pets because it looked at you funny. Police have been militarized. I'm sorry to say this, but they are no longer here to help us. They are here to make us obey, to fine us, and to increase the funds of the private, corporate prison system. Yes. There are some damn good officers out there. And I respect them completely. For example, Suffolk County Police (where I live in NY). These are some of the nicest, most caring police that I personally have ever encountered. I know there are bad ones. I've seen them and I've seen videos. But the ones I've dealt with were nothing but nice. Now, the Suffolk County Sheriffs on the other hand are some of the biggest as#holes on the planet.

Anyway, long story short. The "cop" who posted this op-ed represents EVERYTHING wrong with law enforcement today. No. I DON'T have to be nice to you. No.. I DON'T have to be polite. If you pull a gun on me, kill my dog or threaten my family I WILL defend them. Your badge is not a magic shield. Treat ME with respect and I will do the same to you. If I am doing nothing wrong, you don't have a reason to treat me as a criminal just because that is what you deal with. Too f'ing bad. You chose this job.

Sorry for the rant.. but there are too many jerk off power trip ego maniac cops today such as the guy who made this op-ed. He makes ALL good cops look bad, and lets be honest.. a vast majority no longer trust the police.

rolleyes

People need to grow up.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

If all of us could step back and see what is being programmed in our minds right now, we would see the division between rich and poor, white and non white, police and citizen, and so on. This is the plan to divide and conquer this great nation from within. And it it working perfectly. As long as the spark of hatred continues to be fanned by instances that are sensitive to our deepest feelings, and we are willing to be like the fuel that keeps the fire ever growing by lashing out first instead of trying to understand how to solve the underlying problem, then this great nation will fall like a ton of bricks.
This has been the work of the media, Hollywood, and now through social media where it is only too easy to hate, bash, rage, and vent our feeling without any recourse. In a way it becomes second nature to quickly judge without knowing all the facts as we see all to often. This is a recipe for disaster, and we are all the victims. If only we could return to the days where respect, courage, dignity and respect determined our words and actions, this nation might have a chance to survive. As I see things deteriorate day by day though, my hopes for that diminish even more. We need to start thinking about ways to build each other and this nation back up, not burn it all down.

originally posted by: Restricted
rolleyes

People need to grow up.

Most definitely the ones with guns do. Look at this outcry. If this isn't handled well there will be plenty more places the police won't be willing to go.

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
If the cops violate your rights, get a lawyer and become a rich guy or gal.
In a true police state, there is no recourse except nursing your wounds.

Wow get a lawyer, the answer to everything...not, well maybe, if you have the plentys.
Do you not know that the air in every courtroom is blue?

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
If the cops violate your rights, get a lawyer and become a rich guy or gal.
In a true police state, there is no recourse except nursing your wounds.

Pretty hard to lawyer up if your DEAD@@@@


We need to nip the problem in the bud not ignore it and or try to get rich at the expense of the tax payers.

Jaden

a reply to: TinfoilTP

I'm sure my friend. Same department that mysteriously stopped the investigation of my grandfather's death after telling us they had found his wedding ring in a pawn shop, then calling back and saying, "no, couldn't be his, that ring was pawned by a respected citizen"- wouldn't even show us photos to ID after that. Corrupt as I'll get out.

Edit to add: it was also interdepartmental. They eventually did get rid of the rapist- he was moved to a neighboring city and given a public affairs job handing out free turkeys to the poor on thanksgiving and stuff like that. A few years later somebody ran him over while he was out biking. I guess karma's like that.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

And here we see the difference between a cop and a pig.

originally posted by: Masterjaden

originally posted by: TinfoilTP
If the cops violate your rights, get a lawyer and become a rich guy or gal.
In a true police state, there is no recourse except nursing your wounds.

Pretty hard to lawyer up if your DEAD@@@@
We need to nip the problem in the bud not ignore it and or try to get rich at the expense of the tax payers.

Jaden

Brilliant, although Quantum Mechanics might solve that 'dead' problem someday at some stage in the order of 'consciousness' ..for about five minutes. Just maybe somewhere in the brain can really see and preserve what the eyes give it, but destroy the whole brain and what's left?
So head shot, or heart shot in that scenario, which one might become illegal someday?

As I'm reading this thread and after talking to a number of friends who have recounted their own experiences and thoughts, I would say that the most prevalent issue at work here quite simply comes down to trust.

The police departments would understandably prefer that those whom they are giving citations or arresting trust their actions and decision making so that they may, also understandably, perform their jobs without risk of injury to themselves, other officers or the person whom they are dealing with.

The public, however, because of the presentation of incidences where the use of force or legal authority has been abused, do not necessarily trust the police departments and may, also understandably, be concerned or even afraid should the police have their attention drawn to them. This is not true for every member of the public but it seems to be true for a good number of friends that I have spoken with over the last week. Currently, out of those that I have spoken with on the subject of police officers, the number of those who trust the police implicitly and without fear is roughly 1 out of 4.

I am one of those ones. I have had ample experiences with police officers in my lifetime. I've been pulled over for speeding when I was younger (who hasn't?). I can honestly say that I have had three occasions in my experience where my local police department has saved my life.

The first was through their quick wits in realizing that what seemed like a simple case of telephonic harassment was actually far worse and pulling in homicide detectives to work the case. The two other occasions were for domestic violence calls. In both cases, the phone was ripped out of the jack at the time of my 911 call and the police came quickly enough to save me from even more grievous injury that I had experienced (I no longer have issues with abusive significant others for the record, lol). I have also been cited for jaywalking as a young woman walking alone on a dark street who chose to cross illegally then pass through the crowd of gang members at the corner. In that case, I did tell the officer writing the citation, after explaining why I chose to jaywalk and asking why he was not doing anything about the gang members that he, in my opinion, was a *beeping* idiot. That police officer finished writing the citation, handed it to me and went on his way. The judge, btw, ruled that in the court's opinion, the police officer was a "bleeping" idiot and threw out the charge of jaywalking. Yes, the judge really said that.

I can also honestly say that I have raised my children, because of my experiences while traveling in the USSR, to have some trust in police officers and to not hesitate in calling them if there is an issue that seems to warrant their attention. My children know that they would not exist if it hadn't been for the police. However, a circumstance occurred where a county sheriff's department acted totally inappropriately to the extent that all trust in the police--despite years of my talking positively about police officers--was seemingly irrevocably destroyed. When that situation occurred, I spoke bluntly and calmly to the police officers and they were quite honestly horror struck at what they had done. They apologized profusely to my youngest who had been screaming and was still crying. They gave her a sticker and they apologized to me, admitting that all of their actions had been flawed and skewed by their own biases. No amount of stickers and remorse worked for my children though. No matter how much I try to tell both of my children that the police made their lives possible (and that is absolutely true), they have never forgotten that day. They fear the police.

Any police officers reading this, I want you to consider what I have just said for a moment and take it to heart. Trust isn't freely given. Trust is earned. In the case of the police departments, many of you are most likely overworked and dealing with an increasingly hostile and distrusting public. Most of my friends will not call you, even if they experience a crime, because they fear you. I have a friend who makes well over 6 figures a year, who has never even so much received a police ticket, and because he lives and works in the San Francisco area, he fears you. Ask yourselves why your citizens fear you across ethnic, racial and economic barriers.

It's because of those within your forces whose decision making and responses have been called into question. It is the seemingly lack of accountability of case after case of questionable action. It is due to those officers who chose to smudge your positions. Even I, who have had nothing but largely very good experiences with police officers, would question a police officer's actions if I knew I had not done anything and was suddenly under arrest due to cases like these:
www.wftv.com...
abcnews.go.com...
www.mercurynews.com...

Would you prefer me to not question or challenge an officer's authority if I thought that their motives were suspect? That is part of the problem, isn't it? Articles like the one in the Washington Post are not going to fix this but only make it worse when juxtaposed against the above articles. Every police officer who is accused of wrongdoing and placed on paid administrative leave isn't going to fix it. Trust requires faith and accountability and we are all in a terrible situation where an unknown number of the public no longer trusts you. That creates a dangerous situation for both the public and for the police. It cannot continue.

I appreciate all the work that you do. I really do. However, the police departments in this country need radical changes from the training of better interpersonal skills, crisis management and cleaning house of those whose actions are likely to becomes more smears on all those good officers out in the field that do absolutely exist. Understand that the situation that exists is not going to be fixed by Twitter PR schemes but by actively working in better ways within the community so that the collective experience is of positive ones as opposed to negative. Trust, when blown, is the hardest to earn back. Please work hard at it for all of us. We need you.

If a person is blatantly breaking the law, a criminal, someone that has disobeyed the law or more than one law,...I could envision where a LEO would/should perhaps say such...tell the offender that he is in danger and may be hurt or even killed, depending on the situation and the severity of the crime and the set of circumstances relevant to the perp being a danger to the police, to other citizens or to themselves. However, to threaten harm to someone simply on the basis that they must not challenge an officer in anyway...especially if that citizen has done nothing wrong...well, that is another story.

The old saying, "All men are created equal, but some are more equal than others" comes to mind.

Mr. Dutta has clearly forgotten about a little thing called the Constitution.

a reply to: alienjuggalo

I think those two articles demonstrated the issue perfectly. When two idiots have a confrontation nothing good comes from it.

Law enforcements training procedures need to be looked into if not overhauled and the general public needs to use common sense more often.

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

I rmeber the results for the migram experiment and the stanford one, where they had a group act as prison C.O.'s and the other as prisoners.

Th results were the same, but that is not indicative of humans in general. There are too many cultural, social, economic, heck, even pop culture, factors to consider, which were not.

Even back in highschool when we read of this experiment in psychology class, i always thought that this was a little too narrow a conclusion; that people in general will become corrupted from power. Wrong. It is the society, it's level of moral adhesion and conformity, it's reason, form and extent of adjudication (if any) for breaking these moral adhesion's and conformity, the laws the society must follow, the information everyone has access to, and more.

I bet if you tried this experiment somewhere else more rural, strict with moral law and it's punishments for breaking them, a more prioritized, higher standard of laws and punishments for breaking them, this experiment will feature chill C.O.'s that bark only when a prisoner wants to act up.

a reply to: Hijinx

Don't make an individual who puts their life in possible harms way every single day make them think you might be the guy to harm them.

I posted this in another OP about law enforcement and it seems just as applicable here: I was an underground coal miner. E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. under there will kill you and it is a dirty, dangerous job. HOW does choosing a career that puts my life on the line on a daily basis, excuse me having a belligerent, aggressive attitude to others? How does that excuse my behavior if I've had a bad day and people are just pissin' me off? If it does, electrical workers, construction workers, firefighters etc, etc.. are going to be hell to be around, because their jobs are higher on the list of most dangerous jobs than law enforcement. They rank 10th. Having a dangerous job is your own decision, no one forced you in to it and it's no excuse to be a d**k.