originally posted by: Kandinsky
The problem with affording these guys the omnipotence of puppetmasters is the disconnect between real world events and the creative speculation.
Waterboarding for example? If a prisoner was thought to have valuable information, why waterboard them? Why not use the technology of MC?
That would be God-complex not omnipotent, Kandinsky.
There's little doubt that the business of gathering intelligence continues to be a murky business and ethics are something for other people to
worry about. At the same time, I can appreciate the mind-set that deems ethics a luxury when they have a focus on serious threats to national
That's been one of the personally more fascinating aspects when looking at MK. That is getting glimpses here and there of the moral decline of some of
the players and the arguments that were internally adopted to justify their cold brutality. A real life Picture of Dorian Gray! Some "good," even
great, men, slowly warped, some already sociopaths who've just been given the ultimate get out of jail free card and gifted with some hi-tech
sadomasochistic toys. Much scholarly work has been done on the "cult of intelligence."
Sure MK found out '___' was generally strategically useless. But the umbrella projects were much
further-ranging and encompass an impressively
wide-range of disciplines, no? There are other techniques, btw, more conducive to and known to be enhanced by certain drugs. You don't suppose they
didn't learn nuthin' at all and just abandoned the search do ya?
The kind of techniques I'm pondering probably aren't suited for, nor aimed at, simple interrogation. More to do with the behavioral aspects of the
human mind both separately and in groups. Maybe even no general need for drugs. I'd be giving guys like Bergdahl the eye, not the shell-shocked Desert
Porn naked guy in cell 9---if I have to use war as an example. Or, some of the prisoners we sent back in exchange, ahem. That would be harder, though,
I imagine. I think the evidence suggests "doable" though.
No need to think so big, however, as it's easy to imagine the operational usefulness of a group of human-use subjects--say the Remote Viewrs--being
subjected to a mix of deep hypnosis both self and external, sensory isolation, Technology aided OBEs, initiation techniques, Scientology derived
remote viewing sometimes aided by Dr. Michael Persinger's "God-Helmet" technology and possibly some laser shenanigans from Hal Puthoff and the
recurrent subject of "alternate history" themes, etc.
So, when more intelligence cadre like Vance Davis & Beason come along fully believing they are tied into the "force" and making Dames-style
predictions UFOs included, in addition to also allegedly being taught alternate history then, yeah, I'm taking a look at that.
Agreed that one aspect of the RV programs was most likely an attempt to fool/intimidate the Russians. Which makes it even more remarkable as a case
for mind-control research.
Because whether aforethought, or after, the RVers unquestionably became test subjects in depth psychology and human
consciousness issues, and many of them continue to exhibit some kind of new age PTSD that we've seen more than a few times when intelligence cadre,
phenomenology, and the scientific intel community meet.
Dr. Jolyon West & Tusko
What kind of goals are still being pursued? For a quick and possibly pertinent example, Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green with direct lineage to Sydney
Gottlieb to later include Gottlieb's comparable position in the CIA, the Early RV programs (partially funded by MK-honcho Gottlieb) and cutting-edge
brain-zapping neuroscience; Dr. Green also being a colleague and friend of Dr. Jolyon West (Gawrsh yes, poor Tusko the elephant, Kandinsky, I
shudder!) is active to this day in a multi-disciplinary panel that includes the study of…well…they themselves say mind control, not me, jus'
saying'! (bolding mine):
Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green
...Other questions raised by controlling the mind: How can we make people trust us more? What if we could help the brain to remove fear or
pain? Is there a way to make the enemy obey our commands?
...There is little doubt that great progress has been made over the last quarter century, particularly the last 10 to 15 years, in understanding the
physiological and neural bases for psychological processes and behavior. Furthermore, there is a high likelihood that more progress will be made as
more sophisticated theoretical models are developed and tested using ever more sophisticated assessment technology.
And a hint of just how complex ,advanced, interrelated, inclusive, and comprehensive the "cognitive arts" are:
The label “cognitive” in the title and elsewhere in this report is used in the broad sense. Unless otherwise noted, it refers to the cognitive
sciences in general and comprises psychological and physiological processes underlying human information processing, emotion, motivation, social
influence, and development. It includes contributions from all directly related disciplines, including the behavioral and social sciences,
neurogenetics, proteomics, philosophy, mathematics, computer science, and linguistics.
Did someone mention abductions? Past lives/alternate history type stuff?
Excerpts from TIGER Study - Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green - Chair
True and False Memories as an Illustrative Case of the Difficulty of Developing
Accurate and Practical Neurophysiological Indexes of Psychological States
An important issue for cognitive neuroscientists concerns efforts to determine whether a person is reporting a true experience or one that is false
but believed. In the last decade, there have been innumerable research efforts designed to distinguish true from false memories. Earlier work
examining behavioral differences between true and false memories revealed that group differences were sometimes found (for example, more sensory
details in true-memory reports) (Schooler et al., 1986). However, the statistical group differences did not enable reliable classification of any
particular memory report as to its authenticity...
edit on 1-9-2014 by The GUT because: (no reason given)