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the green flame

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posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Sammamishman

Hypothetically I'd say they are related if either existed.




posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

Theoretically it's hypothetical.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 01:29 PM
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a reply to: Sammamishman

Yeah, definitely putatively contingent



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 04:53 PM
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originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: darksidius

Theoretically, I think the green lady is somewhere between a fighter and a B-1. Closer in size to the SR-71. It's size will most likely be dictated by the amount of fuel it has to carry and how large the engines can't be so large it takes too much energy to get it to and keep it at ludicrous speed for when it counts.

Theoretically, the SR-72 project and the green lady may not be that far apart.


I think the SR-72 could a version of the same thing which doesn't need green go 'n' glow juice* and hence EPA waivers and so much secrecy to prevent environmental lawsuits.

*presuming the hypothetical

edit on 6-6-2015 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 08:23 PM
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originally posted by: mbkennel

originally posted by: Sammamishman
a reply to: darksidius

Theoretically, I think the green lady is somewhere between a fighter and a B-1. Closer in size to the SR-71. It's size will most likely be dictated by the amount of fuel it has to carry and how large the engines can't be so large it takes too much energy to get it to and keep it at ludicrous speed for when it counts.

Theoretically, the SR-72 project and the green lady may not be that far apart.


I think the SR-72 could a version of the same thing which doesn't need green go 'n' glow juice* and hence EPA waivers and so much secrecy to prevent environmental lawsuits.

*presuming the hypothetical


Hypothecticaly speaking,
if the green lady is fueled with the green go n glow juice, that stuff is so energetic, your fuel load should be smaller, or your range should be greatly extrended. I beleive the blackbird only carried a couple of quarts of the stuff to light the engine.

And you know ive just had an interesting thought,
way back in the mid nineties, when the russians were extremely hard up for money, one thing they did was sell us a bunch of desings, patents and rights to manufacture several different systems and technologies. Thinks like, the blueprints and mfg rights to the proton rocket, another was a space based "turbo laser" chemical laser system.
The soviet enginners had come up with a chemical laser that "burned" the lasing chems in a rocket like "engine", and the exhaust gave off coherent light. They couldnt get it to work the way they wanted and shelved it, but we thought it was interesting enough to buy, along with the aluminum/seawater fueled steam tubine. That one was very prominent until around 1999-2000 when it dropped off the face of the earth.

But think about it, the green lady is said to have an almost light beam like exhaust, and the "UFO" that commercial pilots reported in the nineties was said to have a laser like exhaust.



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 08:42 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

You know what you posted is pretty interesting. Some stuff to research into. Maybe figured where some of it panned into.

As for its exhaust can confirm that when it's doing it's green thing it does appear laser like in how concise it is along with the color. It does fade away though after a few seconds.
edit on 6-6-2015 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 6 2015 @ 08:56 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR


. It does fade away though after a few seconds.


Exactly , it fades
I think that is why the Soviets gave up on it, to scale it where it was effective a a laser it would be monstrous, and then there is that pesky Newton, for every action an opposite and equal reaction, kind of makes it hard to stabilize a satellite when rocket motor is pushing on it.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: punkinworks10

..... As for its exhaust can confirm that when it's doing it's green thing it does appear laser like in how concise it is along with the color. It does fade away though after a few seconds.


I think what you're saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the green exhaust stream behind the vehicle is relatively long and narrow, compared to other exhaust streams you might have seen.

I think that's for two reasons. One is that the exhaust velocity of the boron fuels is higher than that of straight hydrocarbons. The second is that the vehicle is flying twice as fast as an SR-71. When the combustion products exit the exhaust nozzle, they are still energetically excited and will glow for a period of time with a short half life. Because they are moving faster backward and the vehicle is moving faster forward, the exhaust products will move probably more than twice as far during their lifetime (relative to the exhaust nozzle) than if they were regular hydrocarbons. This produces the long thin exhaust plume.

In fact, I would go so far as to suggest that this long thin green exhaust trail is a pretty reliable indicator that you are seeing the real McCoy.



posted on Jun, 7 2015 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: 1947boomer

Excellent post.

Lots to think about. I remember as a kid watching the sr71 do a mach 3 flyby at an Edwards afb air show. It would release smoke for every other mile it travelled, on, off, on so you could see just how fast it was covering the sky.

The evening I saw the green lady she appeared to be at similar altitude and travelling a similar speed or a little faster.

Absolutely beautiful color green. Like a deep jade or emerald laserlike streak. Soft obtuse yellow/amberish glow in the front about the size of what I presumed was the aircraft. Amazing piece of technology. Would add more details to what i noticed and observed that im leaving out but I don't want to ruin one of her many secrets.



posted on Jun, 8 2015 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: 1947boomer

....."Soft obtuse yellow/amberish glow in the front about the size of what I presumed was the aircraft." ....

Aerothermodynamic heating.

Many people have the mistaken idea that aerodynamic heating is the result of "air friction" by which they mean the air flowing parallel to the skin. That calls to mind an idea like brake pads rubbing against a brake rotor. In that model, the heating is the result of the coefficient of friction, which describes how much energy is transferred from the moving object to the stationary object. In air, "viscosity" is the parameter equivalent to coefficient of friction.

However, viscous drag contributes very little to total airframe heating due to high speed flight.

Airframe heating is dominated by compression heating of the ram air, as it is decelerated to zero relative velocity at the stagnation points on the airframe. When the ram air is brought to a standstill, it compresses; when it compresses, its temperature increases (exactly like the air in a diesel engine on its compression stroke--that's why they call it a compression ignition engine). The amount of temperature increase in the air at the stagnation point is predicted by the laws of thermodynamics, that's why airframe heating is referred to as "aerothermodynamic" heating.

The thing is, aerothermodynamic heating is quite nonlinear; the contribution due to flight speed scales up like the Mach number, squared. See, for example:

Stagnation Point Temperature

The stagnation point air temperature for flight at Mach 3 and 80,000 ft (SR-71) is about 650 degrees, F. That's hot enough to soften aluminum but OK for titanium. For flight at Mach 6 and 110,000 ft, the stagnation point air temperature is about 2,978 degrees, F (1910 degrees, Kelvin). Air is a black body emitter. A black body with a color temperature of 1910 Kelvin gives the appearance of a candle flame:

Color Temperature

Would you say that the glow that you saw attached to the leading edges of the aircraft was about the color of a candle flame?

If so, yet one more indication that you saw the real thing.



posted on Jun, 8 2015 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: 1947boomer

I don't know how my last post on aerothermodynamic heating showed up looking like it's a reply TO me when it's actually a reply FROM me. Oh well.....



posted on Jun, 8 2015 @ 05:29 PM
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a reply to: 1947boomer

Uh, yeah actually that's exactly the color I would describe it. Soft fuzzy candle flame colored lozenge or obtuse elliptoid. Laser like streak out the back.

Where would stagnation points be on an airframe? like where the wings meet the fuselage, etc? Because this thing seemed to be either enveloped in the glow or the whole fuselage was aglowfrom the searing heat. From my perspective, although I was focusing more on the green trail, it appeared to be enveloped by the glow.

As always your posts are always excellent and worth the read.



posted on Jun, 8 2015 @ 09:48 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

My money would be on the latter, that the whole fuselage is aglow from the heat.

My longtime hunch was that all those exotic technologies in the Shuttle's TPS had relatively littleI to do with the Shuttle's development and everything to do with all of those explorations into post-blackbird and post-X-15 fastmovers in the late 60's and early 70's. It's just too coincidental that all these exotic materials popped out of the blue (quantum leaps beyond anything developed for Apollo or the X-20) just as the Shuttle's design materialized around that high-stress crossrange reentry fairly late in the design game. It's fairly well-known that most of the early explorations into the Isinglass/Rheinberry project revolved around heat management, and likely any developments of the X-24 or the FDL's would have done the same.

They more or less had the passive thermal management stuff down pat in the 70's between RCC and advanced porous ceramics, it's just that in all likelihood, it took decades longer for powerplant technology to catch up.

It's funny that that flattened ellipse/lozenge shape you mention looks (or sounds like it looks) exactly like the DARPA HTV-3X/HCV designs, designs which also, by all likelihood, would have used some sort of Shuttle-style TPS that would glow the color of a candle when it was doing its thing.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:21 AM
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a reply to: Barnalby

Another excellent post!!! You guys are giving me lots to ponder. I'll figure out this mystery bird one day.

As for the planform. There was no way to tell from what I could see other than what I've described. I would think the green lady's planform would be crucial in more ways than one to her mission.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: NiZZiM

I saw a fiery green streak in the sky over New York City 3 summers ago. Momentary, but very bright.
edit on 6 9 15 by CynicalSinningSaint because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:10 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR

“...Where would stagnation points be on an airframe? like where the wings meet the fuselage, etc? “

When a solid body is moving through the air, the flow will separate in order to flow around it on all sides. Wherever the flow separates, that is a stagnation point. For simple shapes, like a cone or a sphere, there may be only one stagnation point i.e., right at the nose.

For a lifting shape, such as a wing, it is necessary to create an airflow around it such that the flow over the top is lower in pressure than the flow on the bottom. Ultimately, this pressure differential generates lift. On a wing, there is a solid line of stagnation points on the leading edge. Ditto for any empennage or any other structure that is facing directly into the ram air.

You described the shape as: “.... lozenge or obtuse elliptoid “... which seems to make this a lifting body; i.e., no distinct separation between the wing and fuselage. (As an aside, a good friend and colleague of mine who used to design one of a kind aircraft for Three Letter Agencies used to say that you couldn’t really refer to these as “wings”, so he called them “things”. He would calculate the “thing” loading, for example, in order to estimate the landing and takeoff speed. ) However, for a “thing” to generate lift, the airflow still has to separate at the leading edge and this is where the stagnation line would be.

“....Because this thing seemed to be either enveloped in the glow or the whole fuselage was aglow from the searing heat. From my perspective ... it appeared to be enveloped by the glow.”

Probably all of the above. As I mentioned, at the stagnation point, the oncoming air comes to a complete although momentary stop. All the kinetic energy of that little parcel of air is momentarily turned into heat. That is, by definition, as hot as the oncoming air can get. If you get a little bit to one side or other of the stagnation point, the compression will be a little bit weaker and the temperature will be a little bit cooler. However, it’s still pretty hot.

When a solid body is moving at supersonic speeds, it will form a system of shock waves. For reasons I won’t go into, it turns out that the shock system right at the front of a symmetric aircraft (and most of them are) merges into a single, continuous, shock front, that sweeps back and envelopes the body. See, for example:

www.google.com... 3Bvz-cjFOvR9g2xM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fhistory.nasa.gov%25252FSP-440%25252Fch7-4.htm&source=iu&pf=m&fir=NNlZzsUyywxiKM%253A%252Cvz-cjFOvR9g2xM% 252C_&usg=__LkN4QjLsKLbYysUCXQ-YNimm1a0%3D&ved=0CDUQyjc&ei=vi13Vfi2I8rEogTtvYOoCA#imgrc=NNlZzsUyywxiKM%253A%3Bvz-cjFOvR9g2xM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhist ory.nasa.gov%252FSP-440%252Fp121.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fhistory.nasa.gov%252FSP-440%252Fch7-4.htm%3B350%3B350

Although it can be difficult to see, it turns out that the shock wave actually stands off a little bit from the front surface (i.e., the nose). So the point where peak temperature occurs is actually the stagnation point on the shock front. What happens is that the airflow behind this strong shock expands, cools a bit, and then forms another stagnation point right on the physical surface. The gas temperature on the physical surface is lower than the temperature on the shock front. When the nose is more blunt than sharp, this shock front stands further away from the physical surface and reduces the heat flow into the aircraft. It is this standoff of the shock from the physical surface that was the great breakthrough discovery of Harvey Allen in the early 1950s that made re-entry vehicles practical.

Anyway, at steady state cruise, the aircraft will be closely surrounded by a continuous shock front, which is another name for a sheath of gas that is so hot that it is incandescent. It will be hottest right at the nose, but it is still hot enough half way back on the vehicle that it will be glowing. And, of course, the outer surface of the vehicle will eventually have to come into thermal equilibrium with the shock front, which means that it too will become hot enough to glow.

I am curious, however, about the shape. Did it look like it had blunt, rounded leading edges or did it look more like this:

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: 1947boomer

Everything you are saying absolutely lines up with what I saw. The yellowish/ white glow was brighter right at the very tip now that I think about it. Duller at the rear and then the brilliant green laser like streak behind it that faded after a few seconds but remained very bright and consistent up until it fades out.

For a few hours I wasn't sure if the thing was simply hauling butt at high altitude going west bound outwards over the pacific or if it was making re entry or something (due to the glow) and also because of the perspective i had (it was travelling towards the horizon and so as an optical illusion almost seemed like it was falling. ) After running it back in my head for a few hours I realized it was simply hauling ass out over the Pacific just having gone feet wet. Looked like it was coming from Edwards direction.

Thank you sir. Not that it bears repeating but you really do have some of the best posts here in the aviation forum.

I don't really want to go into its planform. I've probably posted too much of my suspicions already regarding it. But I wonder (due to some relevant details I'm ommiting) what exactly its planform is because im positive it has some neat tricks, and I am convinced they are planform related.

Either way like with another incident regarding sightings of a different and unique craft over the same skies I was elated after witnessing it.
literalky whooped and skipped home practically i was so boyant. I think because every kid growing up who's into aviation wants to believe that the USA has the most advanced exotic aircraft out there period. That some legends are real. Then you grow up go on with life not knowing what to think. Then, if youre lucky you see confirmation one day that its all really true and you realize that the USA hasnt dropped the ball, infact they are kicking so much ass that there really is no comparison to the tech. its just gotta all stay on the down low. Those good folks havent let me down at all in fact i felt very safe after witnessing all i had knowing that somewhere out there right now is astounding stuff watching all of our backs. Unbelievable stuff even sometimes.

Thank you again sir for your inciteful and most welcomed posts.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: BASSPLYR & 1947boomer

Ive been following along, and something caught my eye,

You described the shape as: “.... lozenge or obtuse elliptoid “... which seems to make this a lifting body; i.e., no distinct separation between the wing and fuselage.

BASSPLYR, do you remeber my thread,

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Im still of the opinion that what i saw was not the x47b being shipped cross country, and what better way to move something you dont want people to notice, than move it near the same time an acknowledged craft is being moved.

A lozenge or obtuse ellipsoid is a perfect description for what i saw on the trailer.



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 02:57 PM
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a reply to: 1947boomer

Regarding the leading edge. Couldnt tell if it was blunt or not. I want to say it was more focused and tighter at the front and more washed out at the rear just before the concise green started. (maybe because it was brighter at the front end) but that the overall shape was sorta elliptical. I think the shape of the aircraft was obscured by the shape of the glowing gas. but it looked longer than wide. But again it was really high up and i was focusing on the green trail more. Would help if I simply drew a picture cause its hard to describe the shape of the yellow part. I should consider doing that. And posting it.
edit on 9-6-2015 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 9 2015 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: punkinworks10

I don't think what i saw was the pumpkin seed. That being said ive seen a few times maybe most recently 8 months ago a yellow candle flame colored lozenge shape travelling from horizon to horizon in 15 seconds or so. Looked very high up but large. I grabbed my binoculars since I keep them next to my front door and have a habit of standing on my sidewalk (ten feet from front door ) at 3am watching the north west section if the sky (where I've seen most of my sightings. ) under binocs it could tell it was definutly some sort of aircraft. The color and shape was similar to the yellow part of the green lady sighting but it had no green light show. I figured it was probably some derivative of the htv3x or something that flies way higher than the greenlady. Glowing from plasma around the craft. Either intentionally or from friction and heat. Was taking a similar (although not the same) flight path as the green lady. Reported it to someone here at ATS.

Pumpkin seed. Interesting, I think I remember- don't quote me here, that it dumped sone sorta boron mix out of it and ignited it too. Could have crossed it up with other stuff though. I dont think the green lady is the pumpkin seed though.

Hey at least you got to see the lrs-b flying overhead, and in broad daylight. I woulda loved to have been there watching it fly overhead too. it sounded like itvwas an awesome sight to see.



edit on 9-6-2015 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-6-2015 by BASSPLYR because: (no reason given)



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