Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

the green flame

page: 1
15
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 07:10 PM
link   
Apologies that I couldn't add much more, but a post from a chemistry forum in 2004:



Diborane is the correct chemical. You're looking at the manufacture of diborane, not the combustion of it. The combustion of diborane is very exothermic and is what the government wanted to use back in the 50s and 60s. The problems with it were:

1. Diborane extremely toxic--more than HCN (hydrogen cyanide--the stuff they use to kill inmates in the gas chamber).

2. It explodes on contact with oxygen and has wide lower and upper explosive limits in air, making it very dangerous to work with.

3. It is pyrophoric--meaning it bursts into flame on contact with moisture in the air.

4. When it burns, it leaves behind solid boic acid and other oxides of boron, which clog the rocket nozzle.

To affect complete combusion the military tried adding fluorine to diborane to oxidize it all the way so no solids were formed, but this did not work well, and the project was abandoned. For many years afterword, boranes of all types were easy to get as surplus, but are no longer easy to come by.

I did a lot of work with diborane as an undergrad and have seen the beautiful (and scary) green flame that comes from the combustion of diborane. It is the second most energetic fuel by weight (after hydrogen) and was sought to be exploited by the government because of this.

As for making it, I won't detail that here because of the dangers involved and also because you probably can't get the chemicals. If you can and you really need to make this stuff for legit research purposes, then you'll know where to look up how to make it (not that hard to do).

I do like the amatuer rocket and pyro scene, but diborane is not for the faint of heart. That stuff will take you out. We used to call it 'death chemistry' only half-jokingly.

For some great stories about the government's rocket program, look up a book called "The Green Flame". It's written by a guy who used to work in the chemical industry producing boranes in the 1950's and is an incredible read. I think it's OOP, but you might still be able to find it in certain places.


www.chemicalforums.com...

Another link.

www.islandone.org...

I think it's pretty safe to say that we won't be flying diborane air to Cancun any time soon.

Or warp drive to Ceti Alpha Five.

edit on 17-8-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-8-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 07:41 PM
link   
here is a link to the author (Andrew Dequasie) of the book mentioned " The Green Flame", he worked on the research of the fuels



The project cost more than a billion dollars in 1991 dollars, and some of the fatal accidents that occurred were extremely personal to me. Yet, I was so steeped in the mind-set of secrecy that I never considered that the story could be publicly told until 1985, 25 years after it ended. And by then I felt as if it absolutely had to be told. For one thing, it is totally contrary to the scientific method to spend a major amount of time and effort on a project and never reveal the full results and conclusions. Even a paleolithic hunter would feel obliged to tell his tribe where he had been and what he had seen. And those who died in the effort had some right to have the circumstances of their death revealed.
The boron fuels had three nasty tendencies, (1) all of them were highly toxic, requiring use of a gas mask for all hands-on operations, (2) most of them were pyrophoric, igniting in a vigorous green flame on contact with air, no spark required, and (3) they formed explosive mixtures with certain other compounds. We lost two of our men and our plant at Malta, NY, discovering one of those explosive combinations. After that, we built our plants in the Niagara Falls, NY, area. The work force in the Niagara Falls area grew to something on the order of 1,000 people and our company represented about half of the manufacturing effort, the other half being conducted at Callery, PA, Lawrence, KS, and Muskogee, OK, by Callery Chemical Co. Many others were involved in research, using materials provided by the manufacturing effort.


www.dequasiebooks.com...

I don't think we are using boron fuels either
edit on 17-8-2014 by lambchop because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 08:36 PM
link   
The Green Flame. Gayest superhero ever. Makes me think of a clone of the Hulk that has fabulous hair and wears pink tights.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 08:40 PM
link   
Very interesting indeed. I don't believe the tests have stopped after a few other threads had quite the turn out with people seeing the green lights in the sky. I never heard of these tests before. I have a feeling this thread well explode with activity quote soon. When people saw the green light they felt there was rocket power involved on top of an already super fast airplane.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 09:13 PM
link   
www.news10.com/story/1874422/wright-malta-explosion-in-saratoga-county




The employees were trying to dismantle scrap metal and a steel pipe with a torch when the flame unexpectedly struck a flammable substance, possibly wood grain alcohol residue, James said. "It ignited and exploded. A plume of smoke probably went up 30 feet from the structure," James said. At least three helicopters were called in to airlift the burn victims directly to Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, where they were admitted late Monday afternoon.


www.news10.com...


These articles address the explosion which is referred to in the OP. Apparently the explosion occurred "near a heavy populated area.

It is interesting, the media spin of course utterly lying and disinforming, despite the fact that in reality, one of the world most deadly explosive materials got out of hand in Malta NY. It would make me wonder, if I did not already wonder.
edit on 17-8-2014 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)
edit on 17-8-2014 by ecapsretuo because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 10:41 PM
link   
I've seen this green flame high in the night sky in Las Vegas 3 times over about 5 years and I always wondered what it could be since it was too short lived to be a meteor and not bright enough. It seemed like maybe a nozzle igniting that fuel quickly in bursts. Another strange thing about the sightings were that I never saw a craft or navigation lights/indicator lights, the red and green or strobes normally on planes. I also saw it always in the same direction in the sky, towards where the air force base and Area 51 are. It's been about 2 years since the last time I noticed it. That would be pretty cool if I was actually seeing top secret aircraft. Does anyone have an image or video of the ignition of diborane? I remember the color very clearly.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 02:33 AM
link   
From the bottom of the Green Flame page:

"Fluorinated Oxidizers (Page 194) - Okay, if boron fuels were burned with fluorine instead of oxygen, the boric oxide would be replaced with boron trifluoride or something similar. This would make a huge difference in jet and rocket engines because boron fluorides would be gases, adding to the thrust; not solid boric oxide, which was highly undesireable as an exhaust component. However, I thought that fluorine was far too dangerous and toxic to use as an oxidizer. The thing I discovered many years later, was that one of my boron fuels friends later worked for another company that was actively working on a government project to develop fluorinated oxidizers that might be suitable for use with boron fuels. Okay, I should have known that there would be one or more efforts along that line, even if I hadn't heard it from the horse's mouth."


'Hey Mistah Test Pilot! If rocketing around the globe with a tank full of Diborane isn't exciting enough for you, we gots a model that comes with a tank of fluorine too!'

Yeah, let's hope we found a different fuel lol.
edit on 18-8-2014 by framedragged because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 09:06 AM
link   
a reply to: NiZZiM

Here are a couple videos of boron compound flames;






posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 11:17 AM
link   
a reply to: mbkennel

Borane compounds were used successfully in aeronautics. They were used in SR-71s to light the fuel for the engines (Triethylborane). There's a bunch of SR-71 media that shows off the same green flames that you see here, but in a more jet-enginey environment. The plane doesn't run on the stuff, as far as I know it was only for engine start-up. (Edit: apparently it was used to light afterburners as well. With 600 ccs of TEB on board and 50 required for start up (probably something similar for afterburners) this would probably have imposed some very real restrictions on engine management)
edit on 8/18/2014 by Darkpr0 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 06:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Sammamishman

That's it! That's the same burst of green that I saw in the sky. The first video looks just like it, that dull kind of green color. Wow I wonder if it is an aircraft I've been seeing up there around Nellis AFB.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 06:17 PM
link   
a reply to: NiZZiM

It's a new platform that's approaching operational status.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 07:46 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

hey Zaph can you tell if this new platform is using Triethylborane or Diborane as either for ignition or a fuel?



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:01 PM
link   
a reply to: lambchop

It's a fuel mix. It needs the mix because of the altitude.
edit on 8/18/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58


So, it has a tank of literal Go Fast Juice?!

speculation about the mission profile.

It flies out towards the target, a denied intelligence target with air defences. It cruises pretty nice & high but still on good ol kerosene & air.

When it gets close it points its nose upwards and lights up the can of GFJ, maybe with some onboard oxidizer as well (i.e. a rocket).

Pilot presses the "Yee Haw!" button and gets smashed back into the seat for three awesome minutes. Then as she goes over the target, all engines out, falling ballistically---extremely high and suborbital. Why? Low infrared and optical signature, and it's so high and fast no SAM will possibly catch it. Snaps clear pictures as the ride is very smooth, everything quiet, nothing running. Then on the way back, restart the normal jets, meet up with the gas station, and relax for the cruise home.
edit on 18-8-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)
edit on 18-8-2014 by mbkennel because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:30 PM
link   
a reply to: mbkennel

No, that's a different craft. This one is powered the entire time.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:34 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58


I'll score that one as a two-fer.




posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:42 PM
link   
a reply to: mbkennel

You can score that as me feeling generous tonight.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 08:57 PM
link   
Ok so one could basically need Diborane mixed with some Fluorine to fly high. So high it lacks the oxygen that makes a typical engine work i guess. It's light too so you can carry a lot and high enough it stays liquid? with the low temp.

I would be interested in using it too


I guess its a B%#ch to work with though.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 09:53 PM
link   
a reply to: Zaphod58

If your feeling generous, are we seeing the green flame only at the start of the mission or through out the mission (if you could see that high)?

We seeing two or one flame?

does March 6 sound right?



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 09:57 PM
link   
a reply to: lambchop

I'm not feeling THAT generous.

You will see it the entire time it's within range. It could be, and has been mistaken for a meteorite when seen.
edit on 8/18/2014 by Zaphod58 because: (no reason given)






top topics



 
15
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join