Quantum communication for SETI?

I preface this by stating that I am in no way an expert in this subject.

That out of the way, I believe that we are looking for intelligent life in the galaxy in the wrong way. Using radio waves is far to inefficient of a method for interstellar communication.

FTL communication can be achieved with quantum entangled particles. A species with sufficient knowledge could possibly send out packets of entangled particles to be picked up by a quantum computer and translated.

Yes there is the problem of sending entangled particles to distant points in space efficiently, but theories exist for sending matter faster than light already, and I imagine that packets of particles would take less energy to accelerate than a full sized craft.

Could it be possible to capture and detect entangled particles sent by a species and understand the entangled state that the particles are in?

Just an idea. What do you think?

My guess is that any advanced civilisation would either communicate using quantum-entangled semi-conductor crystals, where a laser could be fired into a crystal and communication would be received at the other paired crystal.

Alternatively, infra-red lasers would be used for communication from any vehicle on Earth. There have been UFO sightings where witnesses say they saw a red or purplish beam of light going up or across the sky. Purplish because they sky was bright blue at the time.

a reply to: stormcell

I only discount lasers because of the limitations on the speed of light. Infrared is a good idea because I understand the wavelengths are sufficient to penetrate galactic dust and gas.

And I have never heard of large amounts of matter being quantumly entangled before, certainly nothing as large as a crystal.

My truthful opinion on this is that sort of research exists and more than likely there is communication. I have heard things from researchers in various fields though have also heard that it is denied and that heads of research facilities have orders in preventing those other than 'above top secret' access to such things.

originally posted by: stormcell
My guess is that any advanced civilisation would either communicate using quantum-entangled semi-conductor crystals, where a laser could be fired into a crystal and communication would be received at the other paired crystal.

Alternatively, infra-red lasers would be used for communication from any vehicle on Earth. There have been UFO sightings where witnesses say they saw a red or purplish beam of light going up or across the sky. Purplish because they sky was bright blue at the time.

physicists say FTL communication is not possible via entanglement despite the FTL nature of the entanglement phenomenon. in fact they pretty much claim it is impossible via any method. never the less there are candidates for FTL communication such as wormholes or the mach effect. wormholes so *P* off mainstream scientists that they are reduced to saying even though current physics does not rule it out via any violation of known laws but that future laws will probably rule it out. how is that for being dogmatic bastiges? they hate the untidiness of FTL so much they are willing to go all religious on it. they see FTL as an abomination even though FTL has so many benefits too.

probably the easiest would be a mach effect communicator. you could try entanglement comms using a weak measurement principle so that you do not decohere the entanglement the moment you take a measurement.

but with the mach effect i think you should be able to simply modulate the energy of a mach effect device to encode data. the first question is how can you make a ME receiver that can pick out your signal among an almost infinite amount of background signals. and perhaps a worse question is how do you keep anyone else with a ME system from intercepting your transmissions. range of ME communications is infinite by definition so everyone anywhere in the universe can pick up your signal.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

See, I don't understand that, because experiments have shown that entangled particles over a distance do communicate.

Is it signal degradation? Entropy? Do the particles themselves destabilize?

originally posted by: HauntWok
I preface this by stating that I am in no way an expert in this subject.

That out of the way, I believe that we are looking for intelligent life in the galaxy in the wrong way. Using radio waves is far to inefficient of a method for interstellar communication.

That is true, but it's logical to assume that at some point advanced species did use radio waves.

FTL communication can be achieved with quantum entangled particles. A species with sufficient knowledge could possibly send out packets of entangled particles to be picked up by a quantum computer and translated.

Actually as far as we currently understand it, it can not be used for FTL communication. If they can be used for communication, they can not be "sent out" to be captured and translated, that is not how it works. Nothing is sent out, that's the problem. The other is nothing can be translated from the signal, that's why it can't be used for communication. It requires a regular method to "decode".

Yes there is the problem of sending entangled particles to distant points in space efficiently, but theories exist for sending matter faster than light already, and I imagine that packets of particles would take less energy to accelerate than a full sized craft.

Well you would have to send spacecraft to get people there anyways.

Could it be possible to capture and detect entangled particles sent by a species and understand the entangled state that the particles are in?

Just an idea. What do you think?

Nothing is being sent using entanglement, nothing can be captured as far as we understand it.

originally posted by: HauntWok
a reply to: stormbringer1701

See, I don't understand that, because experiments have shown that entangled particles over a distance do communicate.

Is it signal degradation? Entropy? Do the particles themselves destabilize?

No, you can see the changes, but the person on the receiving end has no idea what those changes mean, it's random. It requires a decoder sent via normal methods to take that random information and turn it into a message.

So it's useful to prevent an enemy codebreaker, but not for FTL communication.

ETA: Just to be more specific, communication with QE requires 2 pieces for communication to occur.

1. The data from the Entangled particles.
2. The decoder to translate the data.

Without both, there is no message, no communication. An enemy can never intercept the entangled data, so they can only get the 2nd part, the decoder. The decoder alone is useless.

So this is great from preventing messages getting intercepted, but can not be used for FTL communication.

a reply to: HauntWok

the moment you take a measurement (look at the receiving particles) it destroys the entanglement and scrambles the information.

however...

recently; methods of measuring quantum states without effecting the subject have been developed. it might be possible to develop that discovery into a way to take advantage of entangled particles without disturbing them.

BTW the weak measurment effect does not violate the uncertainty principle it just bends the heck out of it so that for practical intents and purposes it is effectively negated.

ok, but can we detect that a particle is entangled?

We may not know that a signal exists, but it's there a way to detect that the particle packet is quantumly linked?

I understand that even funding a purposefully entangled particle would be like finding an infintecibly small needle in a galactic haystack.

But what if we detected a stream of particles?

A flow of unusual atoms coming from a point in space?

originally posted by: HauntWok
ok, but can we detect that a particle is entangled?

We may not know that a signal exists, but it's there a way to detect that the particle packet is quantumly linked?

There is nothing to detect. It goes from point A to point B instantaneously. So if ET is using QE for communication there is nothing we can intercept. There is no traveling.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What if they were able to send a packet of particles here from their home? Is there a way at all we could capture those particles and observe them?

I'm asking because I don't understand.

Could a civilization send entangled particles and those particles be picked up and observed?

Watched a documentary decades ago about Sea Stars communicating remotely.

Sea Stars can be cut in half and both sides can regenerate into complete Starfish again. Essentially 'clones'.

If these cloned Sea Stars are separated by barriers and distance, one can be manipulated physically and the other will do the same contortion of it's own accord.

Is it telepathic communication?

originally posted by: HauntWok
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What if they were able to send a packet of particles here from their home? Is there a way at all we could capture those particles and observe them?

I'm asking because I don't understand.

Could a civilization send entangled particles and those particles be picked up and observed?

That might be possible. But the particles would have to be sent using regular transportation methods.

Then, once we had the particles, they can NEVER be used for communication. As I said above, there are two things needed to use QE for communication, and one requires communication using standard methods. QE, as we understand it now, can't be used for communication, it can only be used to encrypt messages sent normally.

originally posted by: Psynic
Watched a documentary decades ago about Sea Stars communicating remotely.

Sea Stars can be cut in half and both sides can regenerate into complete Starfish again. Essentially 'clones'.

If these cloned Sea Stars are separated by barriers and distance, one can be manipulated physically and the other will do the same contortion of it's own accord.

Is it telepathic communication?

I don't buy it. Can you show me?

I wrote a small piece in April of 2011 covering this very same subject. You can read it on my website HERE

a reply to: HauntWok

Nothing can be believed unless it is first understood; and that for any one to preach to others that which either he has not understood nor they have understood is absurd.


— Peter Abelard

First... a new theory is attacked as absurd; then it is admitted to be true, but obvious and insignificant; finally it is seen to be so important that its adversaries claim that they themselves discovered it.


— William James

"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers." -- Thomas Watson, chairman of IBM, 1943.

"But what...is it good for?" -- Engineer at the Advanced Computing Systems Division of IBM, 1968, commenting on the microchip.

"This 'telephone' has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us." -- Western Union internal memo, 1876.

• "While theoretically and technically television may be feasible, commercially and financially it is an impossibility." -- Lee DeForest, inventor.


Anything is possible...

Those who say it is impossible don't have the imagination to find a way around it.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Psynic
Watched a documentary decades ago about Sea Stars communicating remotely.

Sea Stars can be cut in half and both sides can regenerate into complete Starfish again. Essentially 'clones'.

If these cloned Sea Stars are separated by barriers and distance, one can be manipulated physically and the other will do the same contortion of it's own accord.

Is it telepathic communication?

I don't buy it. Can you show me?

Wish I could.

I've searched extensively for a copy of the film, to no avail.

It was part of a science based TV series in the 1980's.

The part about Sea Stars being able to regenerate is true. Fisherman used to chop them up and throw them overboard when they found them in their nets until they realized it was producing twice as many Sea Stars.

In my efforts to locate the film I found a related story about Sea Stars being used in WWII in the Pacific as some sort of covert communication method.

The original TV production recreated an experiment, in detail, which clearly showed the phenomenon happening between a pair of Sea Star clones that were separated in two different rooms many yards apart.

a reply to: Psynic

Calling BS on that one.

As someone with a degree in marine biology and who has been to a lab where sea-star (in science circles, they're called "sea-stars" rather than "starfish", since they're not fish) regeneration investigations were conducted, I can tell you authoritatively that the "phenomenon" which you describe does not exist.

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