"No, Thanks" Best DHS Checkpoint Refusals EVER!

a reply to: milkyway12

I really appreciate you taking the time to tell us this from a police officer's standpoint. It will be very helpful where I live as checkpoints are popping up all over the place. I guess my question is this, why do police do this? We have checkpoints for drugs and sobriety often in Florida and I don't see how or why the police are doing this and I don't understand how this is constitutional. I'm very curious and hope you can explain.

Thanks!

For those that say this is a good thing to combat illegal immigration, how exactly does answering the question "are you a citizen" help? I could be telling the truth, I could be lying. The question by itself is utterly useless and a waste of time. If I truthfully say yes, and they don't like the look of me, they can insist I'm lying and harass me some more. If I lie and say yes, but I look and sound acceptable, then I'm on my way. It's just pulling you over to profile you, which is wrong.

I just wanted to add, I wish I could anti-star some of the "what a bunch of stupid losers in this video" responses in this thread. Small things are often the most important of all.

Well, as amusing as that video was, I imagine if you try that, your odds are pretty good of being arrested for disorderly conduct or obstructing an officer. Of course, you won't see any videos of that because it's not so funny or the police would erase the video from the camera.

While many people like to complain about the immigration problem and the expense of illegals to taxpaying citizens (not to mention the increases in medical care that hospital ERs pass on to the rest of us), I wonder how wise it is to harass the border patrol.

The courts have ruled that police checkpoints are constitutional. That same ruling would apply to border patrol checkpoints.

On the other hand, if NY City's stop and frisk law isn't legal, is it legal to stop and "frisk" your vehicle?

Just had a revelation...

ALL of the crime in the US could be stopped within a year, if we just repeal the 4th amendment!

I can't speak for all you miscreants, but I have absolutely nothing to hide from anyone, ever. Why should I care if law enforcement searches my home while I'm at work?

18th century Bostonians were just a bunch of criminal jerks. They should have thanked the British army for ensuring their safety.

And being a jerk should be a felony in and of itself!

This is the first guy in the OP's video. It's the reason he now video tapes all his police experiences.

Please do yourselves a favor and go to the actual youtube video and read the comments. 90% of the people are blaming him for not following the demands of the officers. Proof positive we live in a country full of people not smart enough to question authority at all.

I promise, no sarcasm in this reply:

The argument that these checkpoints will hinder illegal immigration is ludicrous. The border itself is left unattended, and the federal government has actively prevented Border Patrol and ICE from performing their duties.

You know I am glad we have freedom. But it seems these people are only trying to control illegal immigrants, something it seems most people want to control better. I would be more impressed if these "law students" would stand up to laws that affect Americans unfairly. NSA, Taxes for middle class. ect... still this shows some light but imagine how hard and dangerous immigration has it. might as well go home and open the borders.

To make this a little more thought provoking for some of you....

What if border patrol, instead of setting up roadway checkpoints, decides it would be much more effective to canvas entire neighborhoods door to door, ringing every bell to ask each of the occupants if they are citizens. It's just a simple yes or no question. Oh, and by the way, may we please search your home? We just want to make sure there's not an illegal hiding in your attic. We're not targeting you, everybody has to do it. It's for your own safety, rest assured.

Is that cool too? What's the difference?

a reply to: SlapMonkey

We don't need Probable Cause to ask you to provide a license, if you refuse to provide a license, then you can be taken to jail; If operating a motor vehicle.

We can ask you to provide an I.D at any point, and you must provide an I.D. If you fail to provide an I.D then we can run your social if you have a state I.D or driver's license and you'll be in the database. This is so we can check for warrants.

If you refuse a pat down, for example if you're walking in a high crime area, or you have been called in as a suspicious person, you will be placed in cuffs and searched then taken to jail for either disorderly conduct or refusing a lawful command of an officer.

We will ask you if we can do a search of your vehicle, we can't just search it and we won't, as long as we dont have a PC to search it. However, we can do a pat down of your body, not a full search of your body, at almost any point. The pat down is making sure you dont have any weapons.

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Agitating the LEO means he can charge you with some bullcrap charges if he wanted to. It saves him the paper work and you the anger of being to taken to jail for the stupidest reason. Swerving in your lane? You can be taken to jail for Reckless driving, costing you 400 bucks to bond out. Then having to go to court to fight the ticket. The officer loses nothing by taking you tocourt and losing. It's easy to lose a case if you aren't careful by mis-wording our statements or forgetting small details in our report.. However, if you win, you're still out that 3 to 400 bucks and you have an arrest on your record.


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I am just warning you, if you come up to a road block, in Mississippi any way, dont try apply your knowledge. By not providing a license, not rolling your window all the way down, not speaking, asking for a probable cause on why we are asking your for your license. You'll end up in jail.

Me, i dont do road blocks, i get bored quickly. I like to patrol, so i patrol. I am not saying this to be mean, or assert any kind of authority i have. It's simply to tell you exactly how things works, at least in my state.

a reply to: milkyway12
You have a very clear understanding of the limits of your power as a peace officer. If only you understood the US Constitution so thoroughly.

To be clear, I blame the training not the cops.

a reply to: milkyway12

I am just warning you, if you come up to a road block, in Mississippi any way, dont try apply your knowledge. By not providing a license, not rolling your window all the way down, not speaking, asking for a probable cause on why we are asking your for your license. You'll end up in jail.

I don't doubt what your saying considering where you hail from. I don't think I would test a LEO's knowledge of the law anywhere unless I had a camera or several running. LEO's on power trips are common in most states.

Know your rights at checkpoints.What are my rights at various “checkpoints”?

Also

When can police ask for ID?

originally posted by: milkyway12
a reply to: SlapMonkey

We don't need Probable Cause to ask you to provide a license, if you refuse to provide a license, then you can be taken to jail; If operating a motor vehicle.

We can ask you to provide an I.D at any point, and you must provide an I.D. If you fail to provide an I.D then we can run your social if you have a state I.D or driver's license and you'll be in the database. This is so we can check for warrants.

If you refuse a pat down, for example if you're walking in a high crime area, or you have been called in as a suspicious person, you will be placed in cuffs and searched then taken to jail for either disorderly conduct or refusing a lawful command of an officer.

We will ask you if we can do a search of your vehicle, we can't just search it and we won't, as long as we dont have a PC to search it. However, we can do a pat down of your body, not a full search of your body, at almost any point. The pat down is making sure you dont have any weapons.

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Agitating the LEO means he can charge you with some bullcrap charges if he wanted to. It saves him the paper work and you the anger of being to taken to jail for the stupidest reason. Swerving in your lane? You can be taken to jail for Reckless driving, costing you 400 bucks to bond out. Then having to go to court to fight the ticket. The officer loses nothing by taking you tocourt and losing. It's easy to lose a case if you aren't careful by mis-wording our statements or forgetting small details in our report.. However, if you win, you're still out that 3 to 400 bucks and you have an arrest on your record.


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I am just warning you, if you come up to a road block, in Mississippi any way, dont try apply your knowledge. By not providing a license, not rolling your window all the way down, not speaking, asking for a probable cause on why we are asking your for your license. You'll end up in jail.

Me, i dont do road blocks, i get bored quickly. I like to patrol, so i patrol. I am not saying this to be mean, or assert any kind of authority i have. It's simply to tell you exactly how things works, at least in my state.

Absolutely you can ask for ID, of drivers. But you are getting ahead of yourself. You need a reasonable suspicion to detain someone in the first place, in order to move on to that next step, requiring identification. I.E. pulling someone over for X driving violation.

Cute intimidation tactics you've provided in this thread though. "Don't you dare agitate that LEO!" And LEO's wonder why so many citizens can't stand them.

originally posted by: Thejaybird

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: ElOmen

Because human trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because drug trafficking doesn't exist, right?
Because arms trafficking doesn't exist, right?

Because people don't drink or drive under dangerous intoxicants, correct?

Because everyone who steps foot in this Country has Her best interests at heart, correct?

Because no one would ever do anything illegal in this Great Nation, am I reading this clearly?

Therefore, there should be no checkpoints.....yeah.....wow....ok....gotcha.

Whatever water supply you're drinking from, I would really appreciate a bottle.

You are missing the point entirely.

Do people do illegal things? Absolutely. And, law enforcement officers have every right to stop and impede such behavior.

However, there's this pesky thing called the 4th amendment, and it protects me (and you) from illegal search and seizure. A person driving down the road does not give the police probable cause to stop them and interrogate them.

Does the officer has reasonable suspicion that there is drug/human/arms trafficking happening? By all means, make the stop. No reasonable suspicion? They do not have the right to impede progress. Period. End of story.

Here are the best two questions to be armed with:

"Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to go?"

Just because people engage in bad behavior doesn't mean that the rest of us have to give up our liberty. The fact that you are so quick to do so is a bit disconcerting.

On a side note: the first person in the video is a Pastor who was actually assaulted by police for exercising his rights. He won the case against them, and now, they do not push his buttons.

I was going to argue point to point, but what's the use. I'll just say this.

We're talking hear, not about law enforcement in general, but the Border Patrol within the border zone, with boundaries 100 miles from the Mexican border. (or the Canadian border) These checkpoints are roughly 30-50 miles from the border.

Do people do illegal things? Absolutely. Including drug and human smuggling, or illegal entry into this country. How do you propose the Border Patrol catch these people? The method they've chosen is to set up these checkpoints, as these people come across the border in places other than an approved crossing. They put up these checkpoints to put eyes on EVERYONE that comes through, for the purpose of spotting those that are engaged in those illegal activities.

Your 4th amendment rights ARE NOT being infringed upon by them asking 1 simple question. Interrogation? Come on. What would happen to you if a police officer pulled you over on the suspicion that you were driving drunk and refused a roadside sobriety test. He'd place you under arrest, based on, shocker, probable cause. The Border Patrol needs these checkpoints to spot illegals. Answer the 1 question and you're on your way. Argue, and you could be pulled to the side for further scrutiny. Guess what, YOU gave them probable cause, and your 4th amendment rights go out the window. window

Along our southern border, EVERY officer has reasonable suspicion that something illegal is going on. They are doing the job that WE DEMAND THEY DO. Why then go out of your way to fight what you demand they do.

You think I give up my liderty by answering 1 question? Hardly.

Edit. This has happened twice now. Why does this site have a problem with the word 'window'.

Check points, nah, they just need one big brick wall where you have to stand up against and then they can say those infamous words..."Up against the wall....(well, ya'll know the rest to that one). Most folks know that one anyhow...wasn't it part of a song or something.

a reply to: EyeKyu'

You are not being detained by me asking you to identify yourself. I have had several people try the " Why " thing. Which is perfectly fine, i dont mind at all i really dont, when i tell them the state law, everyone has always complied. It's just in the state of Mississippi, if you are asked for a driver's license / I.D by an LEO, you must provide it, or a social, or a name / dob. If you refuse, it's automatic jail.

We do not need Probable Cause or suspicion to ask for you to identify yourself or to check if you are operating a vehicle legally.

If we CHARGE you with something, then when needed to have probable cause to stop you or the judge will possibly throw out the case, or give us a scolding. However, we mainly only check for warrants if you are not doing something wrong. Field contacts are 100% legal.

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Technically, you can be walking out of the mall and i can stop you, randomly and ask you to identify yourself, according to state law, you must do so. However, IF i charge you with something, then i must come up with probable cause on why i stopped you. Mall, i can prove recent crime has taken place at the mall, and i was doing random checks on pedestrians as a deterrent to crime.

Just because i CAN do something doesnt mean i should or would not have shift command chewing me out. The State entrusts us with certain laws that may favor law enforcement, trusting we will not abuse that power and most of us do not.

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Feel free to agitate the LEO, i dont care. It's your head ache, not mine. The more pissed you make em the more tickets, PCs, and possible jail time they are going to look for. They'll give you a reason to be pissed.

I dont care when people question me, or yell. It just doesnt bother me, but you dont get cops who dont care about being cursed or yelled at often.

This must be a older video because now thanks to Obama they can`t detain you even if you`re in this country illegally.Matter in fact he`s welcoming illegals here with open arms and a monthly check, and when we have so many Americans in need this is criminal.He wants his way with our country and with the left and right basically splitting the vote 50/50,he figures a few million liberal illegals on the dole are solidly behind the demos and they'll win every election from now on.

a reply to: milkyway12all I'm gonna say to you is stop following orders from a corrupt source and follow your heart my friend.
Make your own decisions.

I have to say, sort of off topic, these border patrol agents deal with people respectfully. Can anyone imagine if these border patrol were operating like city cops? Each person refusing would be dragged out of their vehicle, back-up would be called, and the occupant of the vehicle would spend the night in jail after a quick trip to the hospital to clean up the wounds they receive from "resisting arrest."

originally posted by: milkyway12
a reply to: SlapMonkey
We don't need Probable Cause to ask you to provide a license, ...

Re-read my comment...I never said anything about needing probable cause to ask for my license. I'm not ignorant--I know driving is a privilege and a licensed thing, as is selling liquor or fishing. In both of those cases, you must produce a license when asked.

originally posted by: milkyway12
If you refuse a pat down, for example if you're walking in a high crime area, or you have been called in as a suspicious person, you will be placed in cuffs and searched then taken to jail for either disorderly conduct or refusing a lawful command of an officer.

I call BS on both examples, but especially the first. You have zero authority--ZERO--to search my person just for walking down the street, ESPECIALLY if I'm doing nothing wrong. Here, this may help you out. Honestly, I don't care if you think patting me down is for your own safety or what you think may justify it, and it may end up getting me cuffed or detained in MS, but so be it if I choose that route--you do not have the legal authority to pat me down on a whim.

A recent Supreme Court case, Arizona v. Johnson, made clear that an officer who stops someone for a crime is not automatically entitled to pat them down ... [If] the officer has no reason to suspect you are armed or dangerous ... he is not legally entitled to pat you down.

Just sayin'

originally posted by: milkyway12
We will ask you if we can do a search of your vehicle, we can't just search it and we won't, as long as we dont have a PC to search it. However, we can do a pat down of your body, not a full search of your body, at almost any point. The pat down is making sure you dont have any weapons.

See above...unless you have a reason to suspect I have a weapon, such as I just commited an armed robbery, then you don't have the authority to pat me down using the just-in-case probable cause. That's exactly what the 4th Amendment guards against.

originally posted by: milkyway12
Agitating the LEO means he can charge you with some bullcrap charges if he wanted to. It saves him the paper work and you the anger of being to taken to jail for the stupidest reason. Swerving in your lane? You can be taken to jail for Reckless driving, costing you 400 bucks to bond out. Then having to go to court to fight the ticket. The officer loses nothing by taking you tocourt and losing. It's easy to lose a case if you aren't careful by mis-wording our statements or forgetting small details in our report.. However, if you win, you're still out that 3 to 400 bucks and you have an arrest on your record.

So, to sum up what you're saying: Do what we say or we'll act in a pety manner just to get back at you for asserting your rights as a citizen. What a bulls**t statement--I'm glad you're not an LEO in my area, although I'm sure some of them think the same way. Seriously, that's just childish and unprofessional. To some of us, our individual rights trump some petty $400 payment and some arrest record due to some immature officer.

originally posted by: milkyway12
I am just warning you, if you come up to a road block, in Mississippi any way, dont try apply your knowledge. By not providing a license, not rolling your window all the way down, not speaking, asking for a probable cause on why we are asking your for your license. You'll end up in jail.

Again, I don't disagree with anything you said--some of that comes down to professional courtesy (like rolling down my window "all the way," which I don't have to do)--and some of it should be common sense that you must supply an operator's license to an LEO if asked while operating a motor vehicle.

originally posted by: milkyway12
Me, i dont do road blocks, i get bored quickly. I like to patrol, so i patrol. I am not saying this to be mean, or assert any kind of authority i have. It's simply to tell you exactly how things works, at least in my state.

Look, I'm not rebutting you to be mean, either, but the fact of the matter is that during my years as a military paralegal, working very closely with Military Police and agents in the Criminal Investigation Division, LEOs know procedure, but don't always know the law or what is legal to do or not do. I have full confidence that you are knowledgable as to how things happen in your state, but how things happen don't always equate to things that are constitutional or legal. Hopefully you never encounter one of these jackasses making the jobs of LEOs or BP agents unnecessarily difficult, but if/when you do, hopefully you have a complete, working knowledge of whether or not your procedures are actually legal and constitutional.

But, like you noted, not all states work the same with obstruction laws and whatnot, but the constitution supercedes any state law that conflicts with it. I know that searches are a touchy subject and that court rulings go back and forth, but keep in mind that the "stop and frisk" law of New York was ruled unconstitutional for a reason...you can't just pat down and search someone just because you have a badge and you want to.

Best Regards.

originally posted by: milkyway12
a reply to: SlapMonkey
We can ask you to provide an I.D at any point, and you must provide an I.D. If you fail to provide an I.D then we can run your social if you have a state I.D or driver's license and you'll be in the database. This is so we can check for warrants.

Again, laws vary state by state, but apparently MS does NOT have a "stop and I.D." law on the books, so technically, you can not do what you just said unless you are detaining a person or have reasonable suspicion that he/she has committed or is in the process of committing a crime.

Like I said, everyday practice and procedure does not always equate to legal procedure. Not all LEOs, including the head guy/gal in each department, are lawyers and know the laws. Also, not all lawyers are constitutional scholars. But then again, our president claims to be one, and see how that's going?

Anyhoo, my point is that just because your training officer or chief says you can does not always mean you legally can. And like you say, just because you can, doesn't always mean you should/would.