Do ANY Christians still believe in "Purgatory" ?

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posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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I pose that question because it is rarely talked about anymore.

PURGATORY

With my family when they were Catholic (I never was) they used to relate abusive stories of the priests demanding money to pray to get there dead relatives to heaven. A doctrine that has no basis in the bible, but really good at being used to extort money via fear and control on the ignorant masses, many of who were sincere.

Now I see the same being used on people with "Hell" and even the rapture there is 2 movies coming out this year on this.

And here is something to ponder; if you understand that the Clergy invented "Purgatory" did they also invent "Hell" too ?
That is is to say Hell as taught by Catholicism and adopted by Protestantism, not Sheol and Hades which is just the common grave or non-existence. It's the domino effect of dogma that is wrong, one wrong ideology leads to another.
edit on 16-8-2014 by Blue_Jay33 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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Whatever religion once was. It has long since become a means of controlling the masses.

Personal religion is my choice. Although congressional religion has been proven benefital. I was really surprised by that one. Most churches get very cliquish and very gossipy.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 02:58 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33
It's still in the Catholic reference works, but they may be less inclined now to base it on 1 Corinthians ch3 vv12-15. I think Catholic scholars now appreciate that this passage is about something else.


edit on 16-8-2014 by DISRAELI because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Christians have never believed in Purgatory... Catholics believe in Purgatory. Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics. Purgatory is NO WHERE in the Bible, so the apostate, false Gospel teaching Catholic Church had to go to the uninspired books of the Apocrypha in order to justify it. You see, the Catholic religion falls apart without the belief in Purgatory, because they believe in a false, works based salvation. Without Purgatory, no Catholic could ever make it to Heaven, because Purgatory is their "safety net". Purgatory allows a Catholic to live as the world lives, without having to live a life of faith based repentance. Living a life of faith based repentance DOES NOT save, because that is works. Only faith in Jesus Christ saves, and the life of faith based repentance is a result of that salvation.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Christians have never believed in Purgatory... Catholics believe in Purgatory. Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics. Purgatory is NO WHERE in the Bible, so the apostate, false Gospel teaching Catholic Church had to go to the uninspired books of the Apocrypha in order to justify it. You see, the Catholic religion falls apart without the belief in Purgatory, because they believe in a false, works based salvation. Without Purgatory, no Catholic could ever make it to Heaven, because Purgatory is their "safety net". Purgatory allows a Catholic to live as the world lives, without having to live a life of faith based repentance. Living a life of faith based repentance DOES NOT save, because that is works. Only faith in Jesus Christ saves, and the life of faith based repentance is a result of that salvation.


This is the point I made in another thread. I have a better explanation. To all the heathens out there, Catholic or otherwise, if you are trying to justify yourself to God by your "good works" without faith in Jesus Christ, then your works will be seen by God as nothing more than filthy rags. Without Jesus Christ, no amount of works or righteous deeds will ever measure up to the perfect and holy nature of God. You can only be saved if your good works is justified by your faith in Jesus Christ.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: OptimusSubprime

I understand what you are saying, but what religion were most people who believed in Jesus between the 4th century and the 15 century and tried to apply bible principle in there lives ?

Yes there were sincere Catholics, who tried to live good lives, and there wasn't really a choice back then either. Finally once the bible could be read by the common man it caused the Catholicism to be questioned. Doctrines like purgatory were discovered to be false.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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originally posted by: BlackManINC

originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Christians have never believed in Purgatory... Catholics believe in Purgatory. Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics. Purgatory is NO WHERE in the Bible, so the apostate, false Gospel teaching Catholic Church had to go to the uninspired books of the Apocrypha in order to justify it. You see, the Catholic religion falls apart without the belief in Purgatory, because they believe in a false, works based salvation. Without Purgatory, no Catholic could ever make it to Heaven, because Purgatory is their "safety net". Purgatory allows a Catholic to live as the world lives, without having to live a life of faith based repentance. Living a life of faith based repentance DOES NOT save, because that is works. Only faith in Jesus Christ saves, and the life of faith based repentance is a result of that salvation.



This is the point I made in another thread. I have a better explanation. To all the heathens out there, Catholic or otherwise, if you are trying to justify yourself to God by your "good works" without faith in Jesus Christ, then your works will be seen by God as nothing more than filthy rags. Without Jesus Christ, no amount of works or righteous deeds will ever measure up to the perfect and holy nature of God. You can only be saved if your good works is justified by your faith in Jesus Christ.



Both you and OptimusSubprime have said it all and it could not have been better explained.




posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 03:47 PM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
I pose that question because it is rarely talked about anymore.

PURGATORY

-------------------------------------------
And here is something to ponder; if you understand that the Clergy invented "Purgatory" did they also invent "Hell" too ?
That is is to say Hell as taught by Catholicism and adopted by Protestantism, not Sheol and Hades which is just the common grave or non-existence. It's the domino effect of dogma that is wrong, one wrong ideology leads to another.


You are correct.Purgatory is not in the scriptures however immensely more important neither is the doctrine of the eternal punishment of hell.Billions of Catholics were incorrect in their false belief of purgatory and even more in their false belief of the eternal punishment of hell.

You are correct again Sheol or Hades means .....the grave,the realm of death and imperception.It is "what" happens to ALL that die.Everyone that has died or will died is in Hades and they are dead.There is no "place heaven no or especially a place "hell".The material/physical realm is the valley of the "shadow" of death".All "life" in the physical realm WILL die and "will be dead"(the definition of death).What is beyond(meta) the realm of death cannot be known(observed).



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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A few years back there was a big issue about this. How the Church was deciding to get rid of purgatory, then they decided against binning it because it would make them look like doing u-turns.

news.bbc.co.uk...
www.telegraph.co.uk...

But they're no strangers to doing u-turns on their dogma. They need to do a u-turn and bin anti-abortion because that's not in the scriptures either. In fact, they didn't view early abortion as murder for a very long time because of St. Augustine. Pro-lifers hate history!



The majority of Catholic history didn't consider an early term abortion murder or even homicide for that matter.




"
It was St. Augustine's concept of human development that Gratian adopted in the Decretum (1140), one of the core works in the Corpus Juris Canonici, the body of Canon Law until 1917.[FN54]
"

The conclusion that early abortion is not homicide is contained in the first authoritative collection of canon law accepted by the church in 1140:

"
In 1140, Gratian compiled the first codification of Catholic canon law. In it, he concluded that "abortion was homicide only when the fetus was formed, implying a theory of delayed hominization." See Hurst, supra, at 8. That doctrine, as later explicated by St. Thomas Aquinas, was adopted by the Council of Vienne in 1312. See id. at 9. The pre-modern period of the Catholic Church, from 1500 through 1700, began the trend toward the current view of immediate hominization. By the end of that period, delayed ensoulment was still the dominant view, but the time of ensoulment was in doubt. See Hurst, supra, at 8-10.
"

"
In 1140, when Gratian compiled the first collection of canon law that was accepted as authoritative within the church, he concluded that "abortion was homicide only when the fetus was formed." If the fetus was not yet a formed human being, abortion was not homicide.
"

"
Later, Augustine on abortion was incorporated by Gratian into the Decretum, published about 1140. Decretum Magistri Gratiani 2.32.2.7 to 2.32.2.10, in 1 Corpus Juris Canonici 1122, 1123 (A. Friedburg, 2d ed. 1879). This Decretal and the Decretals that followed were recognized as the definitive body of canon law until the new Code of 1917.
"


It was only after the discovery of fertilization that the debate about abortion within the church tipped in favor of its now familiar position that human life begins at conception.



This view was enhanced by the theological acceptance of the Immaculate Conception of Mary. In 1701 Pope Clement XI declared the Immaculate Conception a feast of universal obligation, and in 1854 Pius IX incorporated into Catholic dogma the teaching that Mary was without sin for the moment of her conception (Tribe 1990). These beliefs did not coincide with the prior view that the fetus did not acquire a soul until later in pregnancy, so the church had to unite its doctrine so that the act of conception coincided with the beginning of human life.





posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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I'd be looking into quantum physics alot more, and read up on ET_MAN's posts here, and Sleepers. Some of us left the Catholic and mainstream Churches and then when praying and seeking for our eyes to be opened, see the gnosis and positive inner meanings, so they're also Christian. More like the early Christians really were.

And thats the Tao, essenes were divided into two branches, the orthodox or austere group which was akin to Jewish Tibetan monks, and the Family groups that are also represented in Tibetan and Buddhist religious communities. Which only furthers some of us understanding Christ/Buddha, and the Eastern spiritual beliefs are under the hood in the bible.

Define heaven? Root is heavy. And its a ptb coded evil and very heavy word. So you have to know religions are traps, though if one goes past words and rituals and sees the heart and their meanings, their definitions in all things, then the positive love can be practiced in any faith, or positive spiritual.

But there is no one heaven. There are infinite realms. Positive, equal and Loving Higher Realms, and then the lower, dense, gravity harm ones.

Its like two twin magnetic vortex energies. One is a pyramid, scarsity, power to the few, hellzones. The other is the inverted pyramid, king arthur's challice, the holy grail, the womb, being born and equal, Family, abundance.

The two are not equal, just like God is NOT THE ALL, God is the ALL OF SPIRIT/MIND/CONSCIOUSNESS. The Tao, represented in all of us and all that is alive.

Obviously higher loving realms where you have gained self control, understanding of others, compassion, and intelligence is growth of spirit/mind, and therefore much more GOD, than those who shrink consciousness, are more machine than man, give into body suit urges alot, and react angrily without trying to overcome, enslave others. The consciousness it takes to withdraw empathy and murder someone, is tiny soul orb sized, tiny spirit, shrunken MIND and far less God.

In that, you have different sized spirits/soul orbs. Different grades of consciousness, like those infinite heavenly or hellish realms. That are not permanent for everyone makes it back home in the end. And the Hebrew understanding of fire and hell words are for transformation and purification, NOT for permanent residence.

In other words, more lessons and refinement.

Early Christians also believe in reincarnation as the Buddhists/Tibetans do.

Now, that meeting place in the middle, the testing ground, between those two opposite polarities, the Eutopias and the Hellzones, that is what I would call purgatory, holographic simulated reality schools.

Think we're in purgatory myself.
edit on 16-8-2014 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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a reply to: Blue_Jay33


I pose that question because it is rarely talked about anymore.

Of course people still believe in it, I believed in it even when I was still a Protestant, because it makes sense.

Here's what the Catechism has to say on the matter:


Death puts an end to human life as the time open to either accepting or rejecting the divine grace manifested in Christ. The New Testament speaks of judgment primarily in its aspect of the final encounter with Christ in his second coming, but also repeatedly affirms that each will be rewarded immediately after death in accordance with his works and faith. The parable of the poor man Lazarus and the words of Christ on the cross to the good thief, as well as other New Testament texts speak of a final destiny of the soul--a destiny which can be different for some and for others.

Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaven-through a purification or immediately, -- or immediate and everlasting damnation. (Catechism of the Catholic Church 1021-1022)

So, three outcomes after Christ judges you. Saints go straight to heaven, the condemned go to hell, and the rest of us, who were not in a state of mortal sin, but weren't saints, need a bit of a cleaning before we can be with God, because nothing unholy can be in his presence. And that's all purgatory is, the state we are in until our venial sins are purged from our essence.

All this talk by Reformed Protestants about us being "utterly depraved" and our actions being abominable to God, and then rejecting the notion that we would have to be purified before being brought into God's presence is nonsensical... if he hates you that much, if you're so horrible, why would God want you hanging around him?



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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Its a catholic thing, not christian.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 04:59 PM
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a reply to: pennydrops02


Its a catholic thing, not christian.

Unless you have some weird definition of what a Christian is, when everyone else seems to think it means someone who believes in the Christian Creeds, you are incorrect in that statement -- it is a Catholic thing, not a Protestant thing.

But, it turns out, it is a Protestant thing, at least to a few: Purgatory : After years of neglect, some Protestants now believe it exists; many Catholics don't. For others, it's not a place--it's a state of mind. I would be in the last group, I don't believe that it is a place, I believe it is a state.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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originally posted by: Blue_Jay33
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

I understand what you are saying, but what religion were most people who believed in Jesus between the 4th century and the 15 century and tried to apply bible principle in there lives ?

Yes there were sincere Catholics, who tried to live good lives, and there wasn't really a choice back then either. Finally once the bible could be read by the common man it caused the Catholicism to be questioned. Doctrines like purgatory were discovered to be false.


I realize you did say MOST.

But there were more groups than just the RC and the Greek Orthodox, there were Asia churches (persecuted and killed off between 320-400AD), there were the Ethiopian(converted or killed off by RC, some hid 300-600.AD), Baptist (not all killed off and were around since 1century-present), (( I know you are going to ask for Proof. I have a request in now because of another thread and the document is coming it is dated 1200AD this predates Anabaptist and the reformation)). so not all Christians were RC at all times.

Remember there was no RC before 315AD, so for two centuries the church was going on, it had missions all along the coasts of Asia all the way to today's Cambodia. Later RC militant Munk's killed off the missionaries and took over their works as RC works. There was a Latin church before the RC came to Rome from Alexandria Egypt in 315AD. The RC hounded them and killed them off burnt their Bibles. there were mission works into Europe before Rome went north Against the Teutonic Tribes, the RC with Roman backed troupes killed them off and took their works for themselves. Even in Spain they were killed off as late as 1000AD.





edit on 16-8-2014 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 05:22 PM
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originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: pennydrops02


Its a catholic thing, not christian.

Unless you have some weird definition of what a Christian is, when everyone else seems to think it means someone who believes in the Christian Creeds, you are incorrect in that statement -- it is a Catholic thing, not a Protestant thing.

But, it turns out, it is a Protestant thing, at least to a few: Purgatory : After years of neglect, some Protestants now believe it exists; many Catholics don't. For others, it's not a place--it's a state of mind. I would be in the last group, I don't believe that it is a place, I believe it is a state.


I never mentioned protestants. What had that got to do with what I said?



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: igor_ats
yeah and they also thought the world was flat



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 05:37 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn


yeah and they also thought the world was flat

You know that's a myth, right? Apparently not, so read this: The Myth of the Flat Earth.



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 05:49 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

I agree the most hunted heretics were most likely the true Christians during the dark ages.

If you were going to publicly denounce purgatory, you had a date with the rack, and flames



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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originally posted by: OptimusSubprime
a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Catholics are not Christians and Christians are not Catholics.



Catholics are not Christians? Are you joking?

And here I was thinking that the pope was a pretty christian fella..

I have it on good authority the he thinks that too!



posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 06:40 PM
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Purgatory and 'non-existence' are both equally heretical.

I believe it was condemned as heresy in 553 A.D.


In summary, annihilationism is not biblical. For this reason, it was condemned by the Second Council of Constantinople (AD 553) and the Fifth Lateran Council (1513). theresurgence.com...





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