Why is the christian God an hypocrite?

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: OptimusSubprime

"....Man created evil,..."

And to that I say, "Hold your horses.."

This, to me, is clearly what I would call logic that is, well, not sublime, but subprime.

Does the God that you glorify (I assume) lay the blame for evil at your mortal feet?

That would explain original sin.

When I was born, I might have slapped the doctor,

but that does not make me an original sinner.

Original sin is inherited, and is different from personal sin. I never really understood this concept until I became a father. I will never forget the first time my son lied to me when he was 2 years old. I saw that he had colored on the wall with a crayon, and even though it was obvious that he did it, I asked him if he did and he told me no. Even at 2 years old he thought to lie in order to protect himself, because lying and other sins are a natural part of the human condition. The fact that I must teach my kids NOT to lie and to be honest speaks to this. The fact that I must teach my kids NOT to steal speaks to this. As humans, we have inherited a sin nature and the only way to overcome that sin nature is to humble ourselves and recognize it and seek forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Now certainly that sin nature is always present, even after salvation. I am a Christian and I sin everyday, and anyone who says that they don't is a liar. We see this in 1 John 1:8

If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

This was the entire point of the OT law. The OT law was there to show people what their sins were, and to show people that there is no way that we can ever measure up to God's perfect and holy standard, and that we are in need of a savior. Jesus Christ fulfilled the law through His perfect and sinless life and is that savior.

Paul explains the purpose of the OT law in Romans 7, and in verse 7 he says...

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

As far as God creating evil, there are numerous places that show that evil is a creation of man. One example of this is found in Jeremiah 7:31, where the Israelites had fallen away from God and turned to Idolatry, where they were sacrificing their own children to false gods by throwing them in fire. In Jeremiah 7:31 it says...

They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire—something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.

Romans 1 also explains why people are evil.

originally posted by: GroidNificent
Basically the way I read Christianity is, you can do what ever the # you want to. You can rape, murder or steal. As long as you ask for forgiveness you go to heaven. Complete and utter bull#. Such a fairy tale. One of the MANY reasons I don't believe in religion.

a reply to: PaulTheDuke

I dont think you read christianity, I for the life of me can not understand how anyone can come to that conclusion.

Jesus stopped people believing in religion, Jesus made belief personal, between Himself and each individual.

Your basic concept of Christ is backwards.

The biggest conspiracy is dumbing down humanity so they can understand Myley Cyrus, but not the written word. Sounds like you have believed the lie of this world.

Yes evil people will be in heaven, but they MUST repent and repentance means they MUST change their ways. If you find teachings in the bible that states otherwise then please enlighten me.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

One thing I always wondered was how was flipping over the money lenders tables in anger, technically not considered a sin? I know it's nothing on par with far worse crimes and Jesus obviously had good reason to do it. Maybe next time I'm at the bank I'll start throwing things around. Only thing is I doubt the cops that will inevitably show up won't take my answer of "WWJD" as a good enough excuse for my antics.

LOL

The "money changers" and the banksters got that covered! They printed "In God We Trust" all over the money that they're changing. Even though we know that their god is "money", "Mammon", people and "justice" turn a blind eye, projecting their own gods on their own money.

Whoever has the most money has the best god! Obviously!

originally posted by: occrest
I keep reading on this site peoples claims that Yah did not create evil. This is a false assumption. He tells us himself in the book of Isaiah.

Isaiah 45:6-7 "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

To make the claim otherwise would be to call Yahuwah a liar.

Indeed. Not only does Yahweh, on several occasions, boast of evil deeds, he created THE TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL!

Duh!

How anyone can say that the biblical God didn't create evil, or can't be around anything evil or "unclean", is beyond me! People just make it up as they go along, ignoring whatever biblical passage doesn't fit into the world view.

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

Original sin is inherited, and is different from personal sin. I never really understood this concept until I became a father. I will never forget the first time my son lied to me when he was 2 years old. I saw that he had colored on the wall with a crayon, and even though it was obvious that he did it, I asked him if he did and he told me no. Even at 2 years old he thought to lie in order to protect himself, because lying and other sins are a natural part of the human condition.

Parents who judge their toddlers based on the idea of "Original Sin" and projecting onto their children, 2 years old and younger, that they are innately evil sinners in need of salvation and constant repentance, for the crime of being born human, is the most dangerous and sickening of all the Christian teachings, imo.



Perhaps your toddler reacted with "self preservation" and lied to you because he can't trust you do react in a supportive and loving way? What would have happened had the toddler come running to you to show his lovely crayon art on the wall? Would you make a construction paper frame for it, or would you beat the tar out of him for messing up you perfect wall?

Perhaps, God should have been a responsible parent, and locked up the poisonous fruit, instead of leaving it out in the open, like cookies on the table, and playing the victim when the kiddies were tempted and seduced by the cunning snake.

originally posted by: windword
People just make it up as they go along, ignoring whatever biblical passage doesn't fit into the world view.

That is why anything from the old testament is not taught in Christian schools. The amount of spinning they'll have to do to rationalize the God of the old testaments actions would make even the most hardcore Christian blush.

originally posted by: igor_ats

originally posted by: windword
People just make it up as they go along, ignoring whatever biblical passage doesn't fit into the world view.

That is why anything from the old testament is not taught in Christian schools. The amount of spinning they'll have to do to rationalize the God of the old testaments actions would make even the most hardcore Christian blush.

I think the God of the new testament, the Jesus of Revelation would make even the most hardcore Christian blush as well going by your logic. For as it was in the days Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of man, when the heathens were going about their miserable existence, until sudden destruction came upon them. God is the same yesterday today and forever. If God did it before, he can do it again, only his judgement will be far worse than anything he ever did in the Old Testament. It will not be a quick death for the wicked this time

a reply to: BlackManINC

I think the God of the new testament, the Jesus of Revelation would make even the most hardcore Christian blush as well going by your logic. For as it was in the days Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the son of man, when the heathens were going about their miserable existence, until sudden destruction came upon them. God is the same yesterday today and forever. If God did it before, he can do it again, only his judgement will be far worse than anything he ever did in the Old Testament. It will not be a quick death for the wicked this time

Yeah! Christian doom porn disguised as love!

The 2nd sickest and most disgusting of the Christian teachings. Jesus is coming, any moment now, and is going to destroy the planet!

No need to plan ahead and save to go to college or to put money away for retirement or a rainy day.......that would demonstrate a lack of faith, don't ya know!? Global warming, ecological and environmental responsibility? Don't be silly, Jesus is coming! God is going to destroy the planet, not mankind!

Relax, don't fight it, let it happen. Jesus loves us!

a reply to: OptimusSubprime

"As humans, we have inherited a sin nature and the only way to overcome that sin nature is to humble ourselves and recognize it and seek forgiveness through Jesus Christ."

I believe that no child is born with sins that need forgiving.

The sins that we all eventually commit come with the development of our ability to reason between right and wrong.

a reply to: PaulTheDuke

Well.... Lets go back to where it started, with the Torah, a book that was redacted together 2000 years ago to make its current form. To Judeans back then it was just a story the way you or I would read W. Shakespeare.

But if we want to look at it in a literal sense.
Stage left the Greeks - Their Gods were Fighting with each other and humans feared them. God's became the Gods by killing their parents.

Stage right Abraham - A voice from the sky starts communicating with him and he decides God is to be loved not feared... If you were the ogre in the sky would you not love the person who decided to befriend instead of fearing? So he promises to Abraham that his children will be plentiful and multiply like the stars in the sky, today Jews ( who's religion gave birth to Christianity ) and Muslims ( the scorned half brother of the Jews ) all come from the "Abrahamic" tradition That is why all Abrahamic religions love God.

Me? I feel like we can all make choices of our own and it comes down to having a personal moral code like "Don't be a f***wad to others" and keep that line and don't cross it...

But the Torah was meant to be a story NOT literal truth and also wasn't supposed to leave the tribe

a reply to: Diderot

My question is about the "den of thieves". Beyond the narrow question of usury,

this Biblical passage speaks of economic justice.

Is Jesus a capitalist, or is he a communist?

I would have to say neither... Jesus had little use for money as far as what can be read about him

Also, what is your take on Pope Francis' (economic) liberation theology?

Can't say I know anything about it... would you like to explain?

a reply to: Akragon

Hello again, Grinning Cheshire,

"Also, what is your take on Pope Francis' (economic) liberation theology?
Can't say I know anything about it... would you like to explain?"

Liberation theology is a quite controversial position that condemns the oppressive influence of capitalism upon the impoverished of the earth.

The Roman Catholic Church viewed this as an advocacy of communism,

and this apostasy was persecuted, especially under Pope John Paul II.

Now today, interestingly, Pope Francis is questioning the role of capitalism.

It's about time.

a reply to: PaulTheDuke

Text This was one of the reasons I became an agnostic.

After reading your thread I believe the reason you are a agnostic is that you do not understand the bible.

Text First of all God created absolutely everything..so He created evil (wars,famine,hate and so on ). Isn't it ?

Yes God created the spirit of disobedience called evil but by choice you can either embrace this spirit or reject it. God did not infringe on your right to practice sin. People create war, not God. Famine is a product of embracing sin. If Adam had not sinned you and I would certainly have done so.

Text We all know that God loves us,that is why kids in Africa are dying from famine,that is why the Holocaust happened,that is why innocent womans and kids die in wars....this are a few things that came up in my mind.

All of your accusations against God are direct results of your and my sins as well as the entire human race.

Text God also tells us to forgive as much as we can...why doesn't He forgave Eva for eating an apple ? I mean,she didn't knew that snake was evil.Even parents forgive their children for such little things....

God did forgive Adam & Eve when she got around to ask Him for forgiveness. God does not forgive anyone without repenting their sins. God never asks of you more than what He has done Himself.

Text Oh..and the apocalypse..He created us,gave us free will and he kills us all because we don't do what he wants...I still believe that this apocalypse in the Bible is a major mentality change that will come in our world.

We kill ourselves by rejecting rules and regulations. There is no known society which does not have their own rules and regulations and if you disobey certain rules in any society you get a death penalty.

TextAnd here is an invented story based on some criterias in the Bible I've found on the internet: A divorced woman with her newly baby-borned slept in differet rooms of her apartment.A thief enters in her apartment who was trying to rape her and steal things and money,he also got a gun with him.He kills the baby and the woman throwed herself from the apartment,falls down and suicides.According to the Bible,the woman goes to hell because she suicides,the kid also goes to hell because he didn't got the baptism and if the thief repents and frequences the Church because he realised that he did something harsh....he goes to heaven.

When people are suicidal they are not in their right sense and if a person is not in their right mindset they are not accountable for killing themselves. This applies also to all sorts of maladies. No one knows the mind of another at death.

I know that I am going to be attacked from all sides by christians...but this is the cold truth and the Bible and the Christianity needs a big reform..

I do not condemn you and you ask some very good points in theology. I agree with you that Christianity needs a big reform. I do not belong to any particular group of a denomination and my belief is that no one should feel obligated to become a member of any Christian group in order to live forever with God.

Have a good life and God Bless

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: Akragon

Hello again, Grinning Cheshire,

"Also, what is your take on Pope Francis' (economic) liberation theology?
Can't say I know anything about it... would you like to explain?"

Liberation theology is a quite controversial position that condemns the oppressive influence of capitalism upon the impoverished of the earth.

The Roman Catholic Church viewed this as an advocacy of communism,

and this apostasy was persecuted, especially under Pope John Paul II.

Now today, interestingly, Pope Francis is questioning the role of capitalism.

It's about time.

ah ha... I tend not to believe in ism's

what I can say to that is that a small percentage of the money that some ultra rich people have could easily feed the world... Or even as dude from nickel back said in one of those songs.. "we could feed a starving world with what we throw away"

tis a sad truth...

a reply to: Akragon

Dear Wise Akragon,

"we could feed a starving world with what we throw away"

tis a sad truth... "

You paint a true picture of humanity. We are still primitive.

We tend to revert to the feral nature of our heritage.

Some day soon we shall embrace the promise of our potential.

It is in our genes.

Progress draws us closer to God.

a reply to: Diderot

Dear Diderot,

Would you be so kind as to clear something up for me?

We tend to revert to the feral nature of our heritage.

So, our tendency is to the feral, but;

Some day soon we shall embrace the promise of our potential. It is in our genes.

But we have another tendency going the other way? Well, my understanding is that genes are more powerful than tendencies, so I suppose we just have to wait some millions of years and we'll be like gods?

By the way, to be orthodox (and there is no reason you need to be) some pretty fancy footwork is needed for "Progress draws us closer to God."

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Hello Charles,

"By the way, to be orthodox (and there is no reason you need to be) some pretty fancy footwork is needed for "Progress draws us closer to God."

By progress, I mean striving to improve the quality of life on earth. We fall short of this ideal.

I can imagine no God who does not want the greatest measure of happiness for his children.

I should say that happiness is pleasure through the filter of wisdom.

Progress is the path that leads us to the embrace of God.

a reply to: Diderot

How does one progress closer to God when said person is overwhelmed from every direction with advertisements about things we "need" in our life?

the world wants the next latest and greatest toy... and the overwhelming force focuses only on the self

As we progress technologically we revert spiritually as we slowly become "gods" of our world... with no power at all but what is given by the powers that be

a reply to: Akragon

As we progress technologically we revert spiritually as we slowly become "gods" of our world... with no power at all but what is given by the powers that be

True. Or, just a deeper more complex test from above for the ones here to see if they will still seek him with all the obstacles in the way...

As an agnostic you seem quite hatefull.