Did Ukraine Attack Its Own Tanks?

a reply to: RyleeNator

But Russia didn't create this conflict the USA did its as clear as day

So the US gave then President Yanukovich the choice of join the EU and lose Russian support, or don't join and keep Russian support...I must have missed that.

And it was the US that sent Russian troops into Crimea to annex it, and of course the US are the ones supplying Russian arms to the separatists not Russia.

And I guess the US appointed Russian nationalists into the power of running the separatists in Eastern Ukraine, but of course Russia is innocent in all of this.

I forgot the US runs everything that happens in the world.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

First of all, I didn't attack you personally, because I don't do that. That's a first lie.

Second, just look at your posts. First i thought they were anti-Putin, but they are anti-Russia in general. I would like to see where and when have you praised Russia...

But that's off-topic and I don't mean to go any deeper into it.

Just look at who's running Ukraine at the moment, before you call rebels any names. Just look at what those people are doing. Bombing innocent people every single day. Why won't you acknowledge this fact? Truth hurts, your words right?

@DJW001

Distraction?
Please think. Moving your troops just a few miles from where you have sent your aid trucks and where the whole world is looking at. That's not called a distraction. That's called a stupidity. No one could be that stupid and do something like that.

Every revolution that has happened in the modern era had a back up from some foreign secret service. Revolution in Ukraine is not an exception also. At first i thought it was the US/EU together, but as things are starting to unravel it seems like it was just the US, who then tried to drag in EU into this conflict also. As for reasons behind this, still unknown, but i'm guessing it's because they wanted to destabilize that region...

It is unlikely anybody will offer direct photographic evidence or proof. That would put Russia in a position where they would have to do something about it or lose face. The key is to let the Russians know that you have and will deal with anything you find over the boreder while at the same time giving Russia enough room to deny it so they are not pressured into action. This is more Russia and Ukraine sending each other messages. From Kiev that Ukraine will attack and kill Russian forces on its side of the border and from Moscow that they are not taking responsabilty for anything Russian forces do on Ukraines side of the border. So if Ukraine kills Russian troops, Russia will not hold them accountablel and if Russian troops kill Ukrainian troops Russia will not be held accountable.

a reply to: Nikola014

The BBC (in the video) seem to disagree with you.

Ukraine crisis: Rebel leader says Russian arms on way
www.bbc.co.uk...

A rebel leader in eastern Ukraine has said a convoy of military hardware is on its way to the region from Russia.

Alexander Zakharchenko, self-proclaimed PM of the Donetsk rebel area, said 150 vehicles and 1,200 personnel were approaching their border.

a reply to: neformore

I would like to see pictures of these alleged vehicles and soldiers. I am sure a convoy this big couldn't pass unnoticed, and yet, we have no pictures.

Plus, the video in this article just talks about a journalist who was led to a fence, then saw vehicles, and yet forgot to take his camera with him...Seems possible.

a reply to: MrSpad

Okay, that could be one case scenario.

But, do you honestly think that, no civilian, no journalism wouldn't take photos of these alleged military vehicles and soldiers?
By publishing the pictures of them, Ukraine could gain a lot, while Russia would be in some serious problems then. So if you ask me, i don't doubt not for a second that if they had any pictures they would have been already published.

And do you honestly think Russia or any other big, powerful country can be held accountable of anything? Don't you know that the international laws only applies to weak countries? Sad, but true.

originally posted by: MrSpad
It is unlikely anybody will offer direct photographic evidence or proof.

You really need to try harder, way harder.

This is ATS, not Burger King facebook page.

Who in the right mind do you think believes that if there was evidence, that it wouldn't be plastered all over.

Give me a break man

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: RyleeNator

"But Russia didn't create this conflict the USA did its as clear as day "

Then why do you need to keep saying so?

Because its true! The US and UK both violated an agreement made with Ukraine, Russia is the only one in all this that is standing on moral ground. Russia is the only one who is not a criminal in all this. The US, NATO, et al are the Ones trying to start WWIII.

I salute Russia on their restraint!

Ukraine is bankrupt and in recession.

People do wild things in desperation.

I would not be surprised if Ukraine bombed its own vehicles to show some stupid western reporters.

People forget that bulk of Ukraine equipment is Soviet origin. A Western reporter can hardly distinguish between a Russian and Ukraine APC.

It looks like if there was something attacked ,it does not seem to have been the aid convoy .

It does the Russians nop good to admit they sent a column of tankls to the rebels .....
It does the rebels no good to admit it either.....
I think that there was likely an incursin of some kind....whether it was captured UKrainian vehicles or Russians re inforcements who can say....

a reply to: Nikola014

Second, just look at your posts. First i thought they were anti-Putin, but they are anti-Russia in general. I would like to see where and when have you praised Russia...

Again you make the assumption if me and are still wrong. I have and never will be anti Russian as in it's civilians, but what I am anti Russian is what they are doing in Ukraine so please learn the difference.

I don't need to show you where I have done anything, because you keep making the accusations and I have asked you to show me where I say I am anti Russian in general and you can't.

Just look at who's running Ukraine at the moment, before you call rebels any names. Just look at what those people are doing. Bombing innocent people every single day. Why won't you acknowledge this fact? Truth hurts, your words right?

Ah yes, who's running Ukraine...that would be the democratically elected president and the parliament that was left over from Yanukovich, so what's the point?

So why is it the Ukraine military only bombs where the separatists are, and if they were just bombing innocent people what about the areas they took back from the separatists are they still being bombed?

Do you see where your logic an info is flawed? Of course you don't or you wouldn't be making that statement now would you?

Every revolution that has happened in the modern era had a back up from some foreign secret service.

Interesting you say that now isn't it?

So then what foreign secret service is behind the separatists...and it won't be the CIA now is it, so who could it be? Russia is who it could be.

Truth hurts, your words right?

Yes they are, and you just proved the point...Thanks.

a reply to: GargIndia

I would not be surprised if Ukraine bombed its own vehicles to show some stupid western reporters.

Now didn't you say at one time that your posts were unbiased and the truth...What happened?

Or am I wrong, if so than sorry. ( but i don't think I am )

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I really feel it's pointless to discuss anything with you.

Again, you are talking just a bunch of nonsense.

Again you make the assumption if me and are still wrong. I have and never will be anti Russian as in it's civilians, but what I am anti Russian is what they are doing in Ukraine so please learn the difference.

Sure, and that's why you are in every Ukraine-Russia thread, making same old statements. I always feel the need to prove the members here what your true agendas are, and that you have no idea what you are talking about. Nothing personal.

Ah yes, who's running Ukraine...that would be the democratically elected president and the parliament that was left over from Yanukovich, so what's the point?

So why is it the Ukraine military only bombs where the separatists are, and if they were just bombing innocent people what about the areas they took back from the separatists are they still being bombed?

Do you see where your logic an info is flawed? Of course you don't or you wouldn't be making that statement now would you?

What on Earth are you talking about? Yes, elected president and government who are what? Neo-nazis? Why do they have constant physical fights in their parliament? And yes, people in Crimea also had voted their independency over Ukraine? What's the problem?

Okay. Let's see it this way. When Israel is bombing only where the Hamas supporters are, why do people cry for war crimes? But here, that same standard does no apply? Sorry to break this for you, but Ukraine army is bombing high populated areas in Donetsk and other parts of Eastern Ukraine, same as Israel. Ukraine army had killed so many innocent civilians.

WARNING VIDEO INCLUDES IMAGES OF INJURED PEOPLE


And you are right. I see many rebels killed in this video...

I would ask that same question to you, but I'm sensing you refuse to use your logic when it comes to Russia.

So then what foreign secret service is behind the separatists...and it won't be the CIA now is it, so who could it be? Russia is who it could be.

How's that important in any way? You said Russia caused the mess in Ukraine, which is obviously not true. Of course they are going to be helping their own people, when they have criminals who are trying to kill as many Russians as possible. No one was denying that, in fact many people here had acknowledged that.

Yes they are, and you just proved the point...Thanks.

Seriously man, you live in your own world. You proved nothing. You as usual just talk a bunch of nonsense.

a reply to: Nikola014

If they took pictures though, you'd deny they were what/where they we said to be, wouldn't you?

Its strikes me that short of actually taking you to the spot, you'd still say differently.

You criticized the BBC video - but never mentioned the military vehicles that are clearly shown in it.

a reply to: neformore

Aid trucks were escorted by military vehicles to Russia-Ukraine border. It was never a secret, we already knew that. My guess is the video shows military vehicles patrolling the border, not crossing them.

And you are wrong. If we got clear images of this big convoy, I would say, sorry for not believing the two daily telegraph journalism who allegedly saw this big convoy while forgot their cameras in their cars. And sorry for doubting the BBC.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: MrSpad

Okay, that could be one case scenario.

But, do you honestly think that, no civilian, no journalism wouldn't take photos of these alleged military vehicles and soldiers?
By publishing the pictures of them, Ukraine could gain a lot, while Russia would be in some serious problems then. So if you ask me, i don't doubt not for a second that if they had any pictures they would have been already published.

And do you honestly think Russia or any other big, powerful country can be held accountable of anything? Don't you know that the international laws only applies to weak countries? Sad, but true.

If I was the Ukraine I would do whatever I needed to do to supress any evidence. Even if something leaks it can be called fake anyway. Photos or evidence would force a Russian military response. Russia could not afford to not act if its soldiers has been killed and proof was being shoved in the face of the world. And if Ukraine even thought about releasing anything you can bet the US and EU have made it clear that such a direct provication of the Russians would ruin any chance of talks anytime soon and that no western help would come against whatever limited military option Russia chose to take. Neither the West nor Russia want an escalation. On the plus side no matter what pictures leak out they could easy be dimissed as staged or fake etc.

I keep seeing US being blamed for Ukraine situation yet I have yet to see any news or facts pointing to US being at fault. Now I don't deny we could indeed be at fault but I would like to see some facts that we did something? I have seen people blame CIA etc... but did they capture a CIA agent and get some info from him or are people just speculating?

Please post some links to anything legit showing America destabilized the previous Ukraine government other than conjecture as I am truly interested in the truth of the matter. I would be extraordinarily surprised if US did any such thing under Obama. I would almost be proud of Obama if indeed he had the CIA working against Russia covertly in Ukraine but also I would be very surprised cause people say Obama has no international strategy but if CIA were involved in Ukraine then Obama would definitely have a strategy.

originally posted by: neformore
a reply to: Nikola014

If they took pictures though, you'd deny they were what/where they we said to be, wouldn't you?

Its strikes me that short of actually taking you to the spot, you'd still say differently.

You criticized the BBC video - but never mentioned the militayr vehicles that are clearly shown in it.

those scary Russians are now even forcing Ukrainian soldiers to desert and cross the border into Russia.

Seventeen Ukrainian soldiers crossed into Russia's southern Rostov region on Saturday and laid down their arms after fleeing the fighting, Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) said.

and please stop about Russians going into Ukraine - not even Western media is trying to paint it as the truth.

the whole world is witness of this stupid and unnecessary lie of Ukrainian government.

CIA advisers must be pulling their hair out.

originally posted by: FootBig

originally posted by: MrSpad
It is unlikely anybody will offer direct photographic evidence or proof.

You really need to try harder, way harder.

This is ATS, not Burger King facebook page.

Who in the right mind do you think believes that if there was evidence, that it wouldn't be plastered all over.

Give me a break man

I do not need to try anything. It is called logic and common sense. Who in their right mind would release evidence that would require a military response against them? Nobody in their right mind. It is not like Ukraine needs to release and propoganda at this point, Russias own action have wrecked what global reputation it had. It has its diehard supporters that will never sway and the Russian people will get whatever version the Russian Govenment decides they should get. So if you were Ukraine what would you do? Anyone who says release the proof is either a liar or and idiot. Now how would like the burger? With a side of crow?