It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery

page: 9
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in


posted on Aug, 16 2014 @ 09:38 PM
a reply to: TKDRL

So do I....I hope that whoever deserves justice, gets it.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:52 AM

We've had to remove several posts which contained hateful and/or abusive language directed at one or more ATSers. Some that are "iffy" remain, but where there is doubt, members deserve the benefit of that doubt.

It is hardly unusual that emotional topics will inspire emotional responses, and where that emotion is directed at the topic, it is perfectly valid. When it is directed at other members for having different opinions and takes the form of personal attacks, however, it violates our terms & conditions, and compels the staff to act.

If you see an opinion you disagree with, by all means don't hesitate to say so -- politely. Avoid attacking other members personally and you will avoid the most common reason we remove posts.

If you should see a post that violates the terms & conditions, please alert us to it and resist the temptation to respond in kind.

Finally, as always, my heartfelt thanks to everyone who has not needed to be reminded. You embody the finest our community has to offer.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:54 AM

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: theantediluvian

I believe the witnesses are being truthful in what they observed. I also think, based on info to date, the officer saw what he observed. The witness states he was possibly hit once while running, only to turn and face the officer with his hands coming up.

key point
The guy was shot / shot at prior to spinning around, where he was shot again.

another key point
They stated they did not witness what occurred prior to the shooting.

Its not uncommon to have conflicting version of events based on where you are observing that event from. The point being ignored is what occurred that resulted in the shots fired? Was a threat made at the police cruiser? What was said between the officer and the suspect?

If a threat is made where the suspect claims he is a navy seal, an expert in martial arts, is armed, those claims are considered at face value as true, regardless if they are or not.

Totality of circumstances - From start to finish and not just the use of force. I say this because a use of force could be justified off the statements (if any were made).

Don't get me wrong.. My intent in these threads is to show the flip side of the coin. I know law enforcement is an issue for some on this site, and that's fine. People are searching for answers as to why this happened. I am trying to offer possibilities for consideration that may have played a part.

If it turns out the cop acted illegally then by all means, charge him, try him,convict him and ship him off to Prison.

Let me revise the key points list you created. Somethings were left out.

1. The witnesses in the video in question did not see what had happened prior to the altercation.

2. the witnesses claims that Brown and the officer were wrestling from the window of the police cruiser. She said that Brown was trying to push away, while the cop was trying to bring him in. Neither of them know if Brown had been trying to cause the officer harm, mainly by trying to grab for his gun.

3. During the cruisers back-and-forth struggle, the officers gun had gone off. The witnesses are unclear if Brown had tried to grab for the weapon, or if the first shot had even hit Brown. They had no idea why the officers weapon had discharged.

4. After the first shot, Brown then appears to manage to break free and run away from the police cruiser a considerable distance. At this point, the cop chases after Brown shooting on the move.

5. The witnesses claim to have seen Brown jerk as he was running, at this point they assume it is because he had been shot. After they appear to see him hit, Brown then decides to turn around and attempt to put his hands up. Once this happens, the officer then takes the fatal shot(s) that killed him.

6. Even though the witnesses had no idea what it was Brown was doing prior to the situation, it is now known that he was robbing a store not long before. His buddy admitted it. And store tapes can be found easily on the web.

***Warning Video number one contains graphic images after the shooting.***

Now, we have to makes sense of it all the best we can. By the things I've seen thus far, this is basically what I think seems happened.

Brown and his friend Dorian Johnson had robbed a store prior to Brown being killed by police. If you look at the stores video, you can blatantly see Johnson and Brown. Take note of the hair-style the accomplice in the black shirt in the video has. He has the same dreads-like hairstyle. As well as overall physical stature. On top of that, in the last video provided, you can see Johnson with a black shirt hanging on his shoulder. It also appears that a white shirt was underneath of the black shirt he was wearing in the robbery in progress. In his interview videos, you can see him wearing a white tank-top like shirt with his black shirt hanging along his neck/shoulder.

You can see both of their faces also, although the video is pretty crude. Brown was seen wearing a Red St. Louis Cardinal hat in the stores robbery video. If you look at the video that is in the link provided underneath the videos above, you will see a scene where there is a red Cardinal hat is focused in on laying on the ground near traffic cones and cop cars. (about 2/3 of the way through.) Now, if you look at the video after the shooting, Brown's clothes appear to be the same as the stores robbery video, although you cannot see that bright red hat on his head. Which helps explain why there was a red STL cardinal flat-bill hat focued in on during the video provided inside of the USAtoday link. It becomes obvious that when Brown tried running away his hat flew off his head.

Now, if you take a look at the video where one of the witnesses is speaking about Brown (video number 3) one piece of evidence that stands out, is the fact that he said Brown had been wearing flip-flops and low hanging shorts. Now, go back and look at the stores video tape of the robbery again. When Brown is exiting the building, look at the shoes he is wearing. It is easy to see that he was indeed wearing slip-on white flip-flops. As well as low hanging shorts. Even video number one shows he is wearing the exact same clothes as in the robbery video.

The evidence is all right there.

edit on 17-8-2014 by Honcho because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 02:03 AM
double post
edit on 17-8-2014 by Honcho because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 06:01 AM
a reply to: Witness2008

What the hell happened to officers of the law using reasonable force proportionate to the situation at hand?

If those Police simply shot the boy for the theft of Cigars it amounts to the same as them doing it for sport, that being Murder. This is why Police should have to wear cameras.

edit on 17-8-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 10:26 AM

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Witness2008

Robbery seems such a strong word.
It evokes, to me, taking power from the shop owner, and taking control.

This looks more like shoplifting.

When you use physical violence to steal it is strong arm robbery.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:03 PM

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: Xcathdra

O.K. Strong armed robbery. I still don't understand how that deserves a death sentence with your hands in the air.

As to using the robbery as justification for the cop killing him would be pretty thin justification as the cop had no idea of the robbery.

But, Brown DID have knowledge of the robbery, as he just commited that robbery. Do you find it feasible that he may have thought the cops were onto him because of that robbery? Do you find it feasible that he attcked the cop to avoid being arrested for that robbery?

Do you find it feasible that the cop, while probably NOT 6'6" and 290 lbs, may feel a threat to his life being attacked by a grown man that size? Do you feel there is any truth to the accounts that Brown was trying to wrestle the gun away from that cop?

And now there are reports that Brown started to run away, but then turned and charged back at the cop. Would you feeel a threat?

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:18 PM

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
a reply to: Witness2008

Robbery seems such a strong word.
It evokes, to me, taking power from the shop owner, and taking control.

This looks more like shoplifting.

Both are stealing or theft, just by different means.
Theft is the taking of property with the intent to permanently or temporarily deprive the owner of the property.
Here are the definitions:

Shoplifting (aka Theft) - act of unlawfully removing merchandise, or personal property from an establishment, person, building or place.

Robbery - act of theft while using, threatning to use, or implying the use of a weapon, chemical, agent, or other device intended to cause great bodily harm.

Robbery includes the same definition as theft with the additional element of, "by force or fear." For example, if you go into a bank and slide a note across the desk saying you have a gun, you technically have not used any force, but if the teller still gives you the property because they were "afraid" you had a gun or "afraid" of what you would do if they did not give you the property, then you would be guilty of robbery. Along the same lines as the USN Vet said, the use of physical force during theft is pretty obviously defined. And he already gave you an example of that.

Mr. Brown intimidated and pushed the store owner away from the door as he was being was a shoplifting that became a robbery when he used threat of force or force to leave with the stolen items. Hence the term they are using "Strong Arm Robbery".
edit on 17-8-2014 by pavil because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:20 PM

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: abe froman

Still not a reason for an execution. And never a reason to assault the peaceful protesters.

It seems to me that a lot of people want to dance around the fact that the more heinous crimes in Ferguson were committed by law enforcement.

Peaceful? Have you seen the reports, with photos, of those protesters breaking into stores, lighting molotov cocktails, burning stores?

Last night, shots fired AT the police, which they retreated from.

You call that 'peaceful'?

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:48 PM
a reply to: Witness2008

Let me ask. If a person 100 lbs. heavier, and 6-8 inches taller than YOU, was assaulting you, with the idea of seriously physically harming you, to the point that you had a fear for your life, AND you had a handgun, would you use that gun in the defense of your life? Would you be justified, by the police and the public, in the use of that handgun in your defense?

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:58 PM

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: TKDRL

We really should be concentrating on Wilson and his reasoning. Why detain Brown if he had no idea of the robbery? Why shoot him? Why sho0t Michael as he has his hands in the air and surrendering?

How can people skate around the issue of a cop killing someone who is surrendering. Oh...I forgot...Michael just robbed someone. And the cop who had no idea that Michael had committed a robbery thought it was a good idea to execute the kid...just in case he may have or will commit a crime.

Nothing Michael did would have sentenced him to death in a court of law.

I just realized something. You're making your statements before the reports that came out today, 8/17, about Brown starting to run away, then turning back and running toward the cop. Bum rushing the cop, in an aggressive way.

Also, as another member posted, IF their accounts prove to be true, and the cop grabbed Brown first, from inside his car, then that changes the whole complexion of the issue. IF their accounts are true. Considering the ... friction ... between law enforcement and the black community though, I have my questions about their truthfulness. Time will tell.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 02:14 PM

originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: abe froman

Perhaps Wilson needs to be tested. I am of the opinion that much of the assaults and bad calls that LEO's make are a result of steroid use.

Don't worry. Holder has ordered a new autopsy, under federal supervision, so they can make up... er, re-write, er... conclude, that Wilson shot the 'child' in the back numerous times without provocation.

Cop haters will applaud Holder and re-elect Obama.

As an aside, how do we know that it wasn't Brown on steriods? Or something else. In the video of the robbery, he looked like he got off on using just his size to intimidate smaller people.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 02:19 PM

originally posted by: jammer2012
a reply to: Xcathdra

At this point the cause and effect of his death make no difference If we cant see what the hell is going on. Lets see (1) The people have no right to protest peacefully (2) the media have No right to report whats going on (3) the police can now obtain military vehicles and weapons (4) We the people are under attack for our rights to bare arms. So i say constitution what constitution. The noose is tightening and there will be no breathing room left.

1) Peacefully? If the first few nights were peaceful, than I'd hate to see them get really worked up.
2) The Police Chief immediately released those journalists, upon realizing the mistake that his officers made.
3) They've been obtaining those weapons and equipment for awhile. Where've you been?
4) No argument. Stay aware. Remain vigilant. Prepare.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 02:42 PM

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: shrevegal
Why would a cop need to ask for directions? They got fancy computers with GPS lol. When I encounter anyone, badge or not, I go from their body language, facial expressions and posture. More often that not, cops seem to have body language and facial expressions that are aggressive and arrogant. It's been like that since I was in HS in the late 90's. I remember when I was a little kid it was different. I would wave at cops and give them thumbs up and they would smile and wave back. Nowadays, I smile and nod my head in a greeting, and they look at me with like a contempt on their face and don't even acknowledge my greeting. It's one of the many reasons I live in a town with no cops these days lol.

I'm a truck driver. As such, I may have a greater reason than you to dislike... no ... avoid, cops. However. The times that I have encountered them, I have yet to see the attitude that you seem to imagine. Several times I've needed their assistance in sticky situations. None, thankfully, stemming from illegal or dangerous issues.

Remember a few weeks ago when the NJ 'Bloods' gang declared they were going to kill more cops? You think that might make cops nationwide look at any violent situation involving a young black man differently?

And now with the pictures of Brown flashing the Bloods gang sign.

Maybe we should all sit back and wait for the official investigation to conclude. Doubt that'll make anyone happy though. If for the cop, cop haters will continue to villify. If against, Holder will be villified, as it'll be his DoJ that'll make the conclusions. And we all know, whether you admit it or not, that Holder is hardly an impartial judge.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:21 PM

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: SheopleNation
6'2 220 pounds don't mean much when you are way out of arms reach and have your hands up after being shot in the back though. That is what has me pissed. There is no threat at that point, it is just an execution. Even the first shot in the back is dubious IMO, but in the grey area. All the shots after that is no grey area, it's murder.

I'm still two days late to the party, and still working my way through the thread, but...

It's been reported that the cop, Wilson(?), had to go to the hospital with a swollen face. Testament that he was assaulted (punched) in that face. Could it be argued that, after the struggle that resulted in a swollen face, what Wilson saw was a very large black man turn back towards him, raise his arms, and the thought of 'GUN' went though his mind? Could that be the reason for the further gunfire? I know for a fact that if I got punched in the face, especially the nose, my eyes wouold be flowing like Niagra Falls. In other words, my vision wouldn't be at it's best.

Again, I apologize for the many posts in a row. It's what happens when a person doesn't sit on the 'puter' 24/7.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:25 PM

originally posted by: jammer2012
a reply to: [post=18290325]kosm I totally agree. If you look at the seems to me that the incident at the store will now be used as a convenient excuse for this officer and may overshadow the even bigger problem at hand.

What's the bigger problem at hand?

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:37 PM

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: SheopleNation
So far it's the cop's word, against 3 civilians. 2 civilians seem to have no skin in the fight, just telling what they saw.

I'mnot saying (yet) that those two witnesses lied. But I will say they were scripted and rehearsed. I didn't watch the whole video, after seeing it was Don Lemmon of CNN conducting the interview, but...

Notice witness #2, video left. At one point she said "Michael Brown ... oh, Michael...". She was instruted to only say Michael, in order to humanize the victim. Not to mention the fact that they knew the family. The first witness corrected right off that the man walking to the body was the uncle, NOT the father.

Did they lie? Unknown. Do they have a personal stake in the outcome? Considering the fact that they know the family, and live in a community that hates the FPD, probably.

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:47 PM

originally posted by: TKDRL
a reply to: xuenchen
Wait, what? The eye witnesses did not confirm the police story about the dead guy inside the cop car window, beating the cop and getting his gun........ They confirmed more the other guy's story, neither of them saw the guy leaning into the cop vehicle.

video is here

The eyewitnesses state that Brown was trying to push off of the cop, while the cop was trying to pull him into his window. How do we know it wasn't the other way around? Wilson trying to push Brown from getting closer.

Think about it. Someone trying to pull someone else into a car window is at a disadvantage. They have no leverage. And why? Pull that person into the window, then what. You'd still be at a disadvantage. The person outside would have the high ground, so to speak. The one inside would only have one hand/arm to use to offend/defend.

Sorry, but I can't believe a trained person would try to fight another while sitting in a car. I guess it comes down to believability. Does one believe a witness that is most likely biased toward their neighbor? Or someone that has yet to release a statement.
edit on 17-8-2014 by 2ndthought because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 07:48 PM
a reply to: Witness2008

It should also be noted, Dorian Johnson put the "blunts" back on the counter before he walked out.
This was shop lifting if anything. Not Robbery. (Robbery would denote, cash taken from a register right?)
I stand corrected upon further research.. okay here is what I found.

Crossing over from a misdemeanor shoplifting charge to a felony robbery charge can happen as easily as colliding with a store employee or security officer as you attempt to run out the door of the store – or as you are attempting to flee a store with merchandise and bump into a store employee. The obvious problem with such a situation as a robbery offense is that instead of the minor misdemeanor theft, you are now charged with a serious felony. If your shoplifting charge was enhanced to a robbery charge you absolutely should retain the services of an experienced defense attorney.


So this does become Robbery from a simple shop lift. For the reason Mike came into contact with the store guy he pushed..
(Damn, that really hurts my own personal case I was trying to make.)

I found a yahoo question.

Is shoplifting and robbery the same thing?
Top answer.

Both are forms of stealing, Robbery is a much more serious charge. The difference is that in Robbery, there is a use of force in TAKING the items stolen. All it takes to turn a simple shoplifting into a robbery is for the shoplifter to resist being detained by the security/loss prevention officer. Simply shoving away from them as they are trying to detain you constitutes a use of force in the commission of a theft and thus it becomes robbery rather than shoplifting

They are really putting a spin on this. For the very fact. They are going to use this, to justify that Brown was aggressive. They will say, "look Brown was being aggressive not but an hour before the encounter."
Hence setting up the pins to come falling down.

They are going to try to convince people Brown was being aggressive as per the video.
That is the only way this makes sense.

They are leading up to. He was defending himself and fighting for his life.. Hence Darren Wilson will plead NOT Guilty.
Just watch.
I already see it playing out.

But please note for the record here Dorian Johnson did put the blunts back that he had in his hand. Back on the counter. That is why he is not being charged. There was NO robbery.

It was shop lifting. And Dorian Johnson returned what was in his hands.
But CNN keeps cutting that out of the video.
CNN is pushing an agenda to favor Darren Wilson.

I ask.. Where is the Dash Video on Wilson's cop car? They did not release that yet now did they?
That is what we wanted.

It shows he was not the "angel" he was made out to be. But CNN is leaving stuff out lying by omission. And is being very disrespectful to Browns family who just lost their son. The people where asking for the Dash board Cam in the police cruiser not this video.. And they know it.. But playing dumb.

But still.. This has gone WAY beyond just Mike Brown.. This is about decades of abuse by police all over the USA.
And mostly young teens getting gunned down, who where all unarmed.
I repeat. This is about more than just Mike Brown. Brown was the last straw..
edit on 22814280485 by zysin5 because: Researching..... processing...

edit on 22814510685 by zysin5 because: Okay upon further research.. finds yet again, I put my foot in my mouth.. but I still stand by the fact this is bigger than just Mike Brown. Brown was no "angel" okay I get it.. But did he have to DIE? Did all those unarmed kids have to die in the past 10 years????

edit on 22814151485 by zysin5 because: (no reason given)

posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 08:10 PM

Crossing over from a misdemeanor shoplifting charge to a felony robbery charge can happen as easily as colliding with a store employee or security officer as you attempt to run out the door of the store – or as you are attempting to flee a store with merchandise and bump into a store employee. The obvious problem with such a situation as a robbery offense is that instead of the minor misdemeanor theft, you are now charged with a serious felony. If your shoplifting charge was enhanced to a robbery charge you absolutely should retain the services of an experienced defense attorney.

I sited my sources ^^^^^^^ on my previous post. I went and posted without doing my own research, and I was wrong.
I admit when I am wrong.
But I still stand by my own personal convictions about what is going on..

Did not help our case. But still.. just read my previous post I did re edit, and try my best to stay informed, and not blindly allow my emotions to rule over logic.
Still, the whole things seems fishy.
But Mike was being aggressive. His friend returned the blunts he had. Mike left with his stolen goods.

Might not work to well to the Brown family case. But that is why they released this video. And not Wilson's Dash board police Cam.
Are they claiming it was not on or something?

I can not confirm or deny that account.. I am hearing both. But can not confirm either. I will keep digging however.

new topics

top topics

<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in