Are all the suiciders really unforgivable sinners ? is that the actual will of God? who said that?

a reply to: The angel of light

No sinner is unforgivable, except that one which set his mind in agreement with the "unpardonable sin" (unforgivable).

The sin that is without pardon (forgiveness) is the refusal to repent (think differently) of sin.

Suicide in the present age is one of many means to accomplish death. Death is the penalty for sin. All men sin, therefore all men die.

Death in the present age is not the end for the potential for salvation, it is halftime. You live your first physical life according to what seems right to you (personal morality), then you die. At a later time (future age) all who lived and died with be resurrected to a second physical life; at which time the vast majority of mankind will achieve salvation according to God's will. Those that do not, will die a second death; never to have life again.

Each of the individuals mentioned in the OP simply lived their first life according to what seemed right to them. They made good choices, and bad choices, they helped people and hurt people by those choices. Then they died (by whatever means chosen or not). This is the same for nearly all who have lived in the present age, they are no more or less righteous then any other man has been (save Jesus Christ).

They will rest is peace until the time comes for the final phase of God's plan for salvation (great white thrown age). Then they will have a second physical life in which they receive judgement during, some will overcome there nature and enter into Elohim as sons of God for eternity during their second life, some will choose to "refuse to repent" of sin and therefore righteously receive the "second death" in mercy from God during their second life.

In the present age, very few can commit the unpardonable sin (mostly those "called out" of the present age for Holy use and purpose in the Body of Christ, the Church of God) because so few are called to know the God of Creation presently, to willing refuse to repent means you must KNOW what to repent of and choose not to, even when you know the consequences.

So to answer your OP fully.

No, suicide does not condemn the individual. never to be forgiven. It simply ends their first life according to what seemed right to the individual at the time.

In their second life, they will learn why suicide was an unrighteous choice, and when they understand it fully, and then choose to change the way they view suicide (repent of sin) they will be Forgiven by Almighty God.

God Bless,

Look at it this way. Jesus KNEW before the last supper that a disciple would denounce him. He KNEW that he was to suffer for the sins of the human race. He KNEW when they came for him in the garden. He KNEW he would die on the cross. Yet he chose not to escape and went willingly to his death. So technically you could say he was committing suicide by proxy.

a reply to: flitzanu

Unfortunately it seems many of you are confusing suicide with being a Christian mortal sin…it is in fact, a Catholic belief.

The Catholic church does not teach that people who commit suicide go to hell.

The Church teaches that suicide is wrong; it is contrary to the Fifth Commandment. It is an action that runs counter to the proper love of self, as well as love for God, the giver of life. We are stewards of our lives, not owners. The person who takes his or her own life also wrongs others — those who remain experience loss, bewilderment, and grief. You won’t find anything in that teaching about going to hell.

Pity, not condemnation, is the response of the Church. Prayers are offered for the deceased. Mass is celebrated. Burial with dignity, in consecrated ground, is provided for one who dies this way. Not that long ago, Christian burial was denied to those who took their own lives. There may have been another denial at work in those days, too — denial of our inability to understand the pain. We assumed that those who chose to take their own lives were acting freely and under no psychological distress or illness. Or worse, there may have been a denial of responsibility to try to understand the pain. (Source)

originally posted by: amazing
This is one of the reasons that I hate Christianity. Christianity pushes the idea that if you commit suicide you go to hell. We know this isn't the case. God would not be like that.

God is not like that.

Hell.

Greek = Hades (underground, where you go after you die)
Hebrew = Sheol (hole in the ground, where you go after you die, grave)

These two words are used 90% of the time you read "Hell" in the Bible, it usually means death.

Hellfire.

Greek = Gehenna fire (all consuming fire, leaving nothing alive afterwards)

This word is used the other 10% of the time you read "Hell" in the Bible.

The modern christian concept of "Hell" is a complete lie.

If you commit suicide you die. After your body dies, it goes under the ground (Sheol) in a grave. Therefore when you commit suicide you go to the grave, which translators of the Bible chose to use the incorrect word "Hell" rather then the correct word "grave" (Sheol).

There are only two eventual ends, and neither are what we think of as "Hell".

Option one, after two physical lives, you overcome your nature and enter into the Elohim of God (family).
Option two, after two physical lives, you refuse to repent of sin and suffer the "second death" in Gehenna fire (no life afterwards).

Either eternal life (Elohim), or a death that lasts for eternity (second death). There is no third option of "punishing your spirit for eternity in fiery Hell" as the modern christian interpretation of the word "Hell" tries to force down your throats.

Either way death/grave/Sheol/Hades in the present age is required and has little bearing on the potential for salvation for the individual who died.

God Bless,

Nobody has yet quoted the false argument against suicide that I have heard, based on 1 Corinthians ch3 vv16-17;
"Do you not know that you are God's Temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him".
This is a false argument, because Paul is NOT talking about the individual body here. "You" is plural, while "temple" is singular. He is saying that the "body" of the Christian church is God's Temple, and its unity must not be destroyed.
The passage has nothing to do with suicide.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Many Christians view it as murdering yourself, which violates one of the ten commandments. Then since you are dead, you cannot ask for forgiveness so therefore you die with an unclean slate and are sent directly to hell. As someone raised Catholic, this is what I was taught.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell, its not specifically mentioned in the Bible one way or another. If you chose death over something like denying your faith, or to save someone's life, those are mentioned as being honorable ways to die even though technically suicide. However, suicide for other reasons is not really clarified, and as such many churches consider it murder. I supposed that it would come down to intent and situation, but then, I'm not God, so I don't know for sure.

a reply to: The angel of light

The only unforgivable sin is dying without accepting God's forgiveness through Christ.

a reply to: VegHead
The Peace of God to all that belong to the light,
Dear VegHead and flitzanu,

By the way the decision to deny funeral or burial religious service or have separate cemeteries for suiciders was not exclusively Catholic.

This custom comes from Jewish religion, who has separate cemeteries for suiciders and claim that they are not entitled to Jewish burial and mourning rites, although they consider suicide a completely different sin with respect to murder.

Hence, the claim that this is an exclusive Catholic point of view and not Biblical at all is exaggerated and therefore extremely relative, since the conservative Jewish communities are supporting their point of view on the Bible, the Old Testament of course.

www.myjewishlearning.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

Orthodox Christians , like Greeks, Ukrainians, Rumanians, Georgians, Syrians, or Russians are still on that path to deny at all funeral or burial to suiciders, with no other considerations about mental health .

holytrinitybridgeport.org...

It is fair to clarify that Catholics have added to the original church dogma, since Vatican II council in 1960s, some important attenuating factors that may dispense for the denial of funeral in case of suicide, the most important is grave mental illness, lack of consciousness in the moment of the suicide.

newsblogs.chicagotribune.com...

www.ewtn.com...

Now, the point of view of some sectors of Islam is still to consider suicide as mortal sin, based on the sayings of Mohammed , not in the Koran.

Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "He who commits suicide by throttling shall keep on throttling himself in the Hell Fire (forever) and he who commits suicide by stabbing himself shall keep on stabbing himself in the Hell-Fire."

Hinduism chose a path just in the middle of the road, it says that suicide through violent means is extremely sinful but accepts suicide through fasting.

en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks for your attention,

The Angel of Lightness

originally posted by: amazing
This is one of the reasons that I hate Christianity. Christianity pushes the idea that if you commit suicide you go to hell. We know this isn't the case. God would not be like that.

That's dogma. it's not as far as i know explicitly spelled out in the bible. it stems from the logic that a suicide does not have time to repent of their sin at least not the final sin of taking one's own life. it's logical. but it's not air tight. Noone knows several things about an individual case. first we do not know what went through the mind of the dying. it is entirely possible that they did in fact have that final conversation with God before they left their flesh body. and finally God is fair. If the person's mental state was such that they were not capable of determining right from wrong God will not hold it against them. a child that does not reach the age of maturity (knowing right from wrong) is in no danger of destruction in hell. a heathen who never had the chance to hear or understand the Gospel and accept Jesus as savior will not be held accountable. God is fair. I do not think that God would be unfair in the case of a mentally incompetent individual either. by definition a suicide is not in their right mind. we are instructed not to judge other people when it comes to the final disposition of their soul. judge not lest ye be judged. lastly; the Catholic faith may have been right about purgatory even if they have now renounced it. There is support in the bible for a time of teaching and discipline for the unsaved after the second advent. The bible does not spell out completely who is eligible for that (other than closest bloodkin or a spouse.) but there may yet be hope for those that died without getting right with God.

as to the unpardonable sin; that is spelled out in the bible. it is to blaspheme the holy spirit.

Thats not as charismatics believe mocking those that undergo bouts of glossalalia in church services. (Because glossalalia is not NOT NOT the cloven tongue of the pentacost.) The cloven tongue is understood by every listener in thier own native dialaect of thier native language. thats the point of the cloven tongue. it was not supposed to need translation. that makes it useless.

no. the unpardonable sin is only possible when the *elect* are bound and brought before the beast and his lackeys in the end times. it cannot be committed at any other time. it cannot be committed by non elect. The elect are not to premeditate what they will say at that time. they are to leave it to the inspiration of the holy spirit. if they don't allow the holy spirit to take over and say what it wants to say at that time then that is unpardonable. If they refuse to testify at that time that is unpardonable. I am not even sure that this is possible given that they are the elect and what "the elect" means and what made them elect in the first place. by definition the elect have already proven themselves in the age before this age of man in the flesh.

originally posted by: amazing
This is one of the reasons that I hate Christianity. Christianity pushes the idea that if you commit suicide you go to hell. We know this isn't the case. God would not be like that.

you are right. But Committing suicide is the Fastest way to non existance on Earth currently.

You can't garentee a return reincarnation pass if you Off yourself.
Because spirits who do so or are murdered tragically are often caught in a *Loop* Repeating the same actions over and over again in spiritual form.

This can be viewed as a shadow figure continually walking down a hallway. Or a shadow figure running down the hallway and disappearing into a wall, Only to repeat the same minutes, hours or days later.

Before you die you need to be completely comfortable with you and your life otherwise you my willfully destroy these memories or suppress them to the point where they become lost or are shoved aside by depression.
No one's judging those who committed suicide but those who did it themselves.
It's extremely dangerous because once you are caught in the Loop it is very difficult to get out of it, As usually large hunks of condensed electronic particles are lost, Which hold these repressed memories. But memory is everything that is the soul. This is why we must love ourselves, Because there are hungry spirits out there who want to devour these particles to sustain their own unlife.

If people reincarnated after these events like nothing happened. 1. *Souls* would pile up, As there is more dead than alive and populations fluctuate. If every soul reincarnated It would leave very little room for new souls.
Not ever gets out of purgatory in one peice.
It's a lot like supernatural the show, You are always being hunted by a spiritual force stronger than yourself.

Lol even the act of reincarnation itself. You have to possess another body in order to reincarnate. So you need to merge spirits with that you are possession and both live extinencially together.
Some people have had more than once spiritual merge. And some people refuse to reincarnate once they become a collection of souls. They decide that stealing peoples memories to sustain themselves is much more rewarding than putting up with another incarnation, At least in this time. They can chose at that point to do or don't.
We call these spirits poltergiests, Some poltergiests are attached to people or a family to protect. Or wonder around from town to town terrorizing people and feeding, Devouring newly dead ghosts.

It's a rough world once you don't have a meat suit protecting you...
So yeah, God's Judgement comes at a whole interpersonal level. Where you don't even see the Judge. But the Action is carried out by how one has lived their life.

Thou shalt not kill.
But I'm not even sure Robin Williams did kill himself.

Suicide being a sin only an assumption. The bible isn't clear about suicide, so people assume it's a sin because they look at it as "murder" and the destruction of something that doesn't belong to us in the first place. But God is merciful, and I truly think that understands the pain life sends our way and what we as human beings have to deal with on a daily basis. So really, it's quite presumptuous to assume that all that commit suicide go to hell. Worry about YOUR OWN relationship with God. Robin's relationship with God, or anyone else, is no ones business but his and God's.

Us mere mortals have no idea of what really happens after we die. How can man say that people that commit suicide will burn in eternal hell? They can't, plain and simple.

I have a hard time believing that god would allow two of my friends, who ended their lives to burn. No way. They were good people who were loved and loved back, they just lost their way and saw no escape.

I find it funny that some Christians can judge a person committing suicide to hell while not judging Jesus death by Roman the same way. Jesus had a chance to get away but choose to die instead to prove a point that he is from the beyond and not afraid of going to the other side of the veil.

Any person judging Robin Williams will in fact by proxy judge Jesus also. What you do to Robin Williams you will have done to Jesus also. For those who are Christian and still do not get my argument and read bellow where Jesus told you this:

Matthew 25:31-46

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be assembled before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates sheep from goats. 33 The ‘sheep’ he will place at his right hand and the ‘goats’ at his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you whom my Father has blessed, take your inheritance, the Kingdom prepared for you from the founding of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you made me your guest, 36 I needed clothes and you provided them, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’

37 Then the people who have done what God wants will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and make you our guest, or needing clothes and provide them? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 The King will say to them, ‘Yes! I tell you that whenever you did these things for one of the least important of these brothers of mine, you did them for me!’

41 “Then he will also speak to those on his left, saying, ‘Get away from me, you who are cursed! Go off into the fire prepared for the Adversary and his angels! 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 a stranger and you did not welcome me, needing clothes and you did not give them to me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’

44 Then they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry, thirsty, a stranger, needing clothes, sick or in prison, and not take care of you?’ 45 And he will answer them, ‘Yes! I tell you that whenever you refused to do it for the least important of these people, you refused to do it for me!’ 46 They will go off to eternal punishment, but those who have done what God wants will go to eternal life.”

It is assumed that dying in sin leaves no room for forgiveness.
But there is no direct correlation to suicide and hell. Therefore
no reason of which to hate Christianity.

Having studied different beliefs, religions and theologies the following can be stated:

Suicide, the idea of taking ones life is one that is both a sin, that is unforgivable and one that can be forgiven. it is a complex question and one that should be given the greatest of all thoughts and ideas on such.

In most beliefs, of the major religions around the world, the taking of ones life is the greatest of all sins. It is believed that if one takes their own life, that it is unforgivable and ultimately does not warrant a better afterlife. Far from it, rather it means that the soul is either tormented or is forced to return and repeat its life, to clear up the spiritual debt it created and ultimately will have to suffer along the way, the second time around it is going to harder, a lot harder and rougher.

Even in Christian belief, from a Biblical point of view, the one that is most noted would be Judas Isscariot, after betraying Jesus, committed suicide.

History is loaded with those who have done such for different reasons, from honor to other reasons. But there are some circumstances where such is acceptable, but those are far and few between, such as sacrificing ones self to save another, that is not something that is hell worthy in the opinion of far wiser and learned persons.

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
Us mere mortals have no idea of what really happens after we die. How can man say that people that commit suicide will burn in eternal hell? They can't, plain and simple.

I have a hard time believing that god would allow two of my friends, who ended their lives to burn. No way. They were good people who were loved and loved back, they just lost their way and saw no escape.

Hell is not eternal. God is not a sadist. The consequences of hell are eternal though. again and again the bible says those thrown into hell perish. the son of perdition, turned to ashes from within his midst, fear not those that can kill the body but he who can destroy the soul in hell.

even in the OT:

King James Bible
Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

I'm angry at Islam right now, I don't hate em but would rather let American culture speak for me at this time



oh and this

Bettca can't do it again!!!

originally posted by: stormbringer1701
as to the unpardonable sin; that is spelled out in the bible. it is to blaspheme the holy spirit.

Thats not as charismatics believe mocking those that undergo bouts of glossalalia in church services. (Because glossalalia is not NOT NOT the cloven tongue of the pentacost.) The cloven tongue is understood by every listener in thier own native dialaect of thier native language. thats the point of the cloven tongue. it was not supposed to need translation. that makes it useless.

no. the unpardonable sin is only possible when the *elect* are bound and brought before the beast and his lackeys in the end times. it cannot be committed at any other time. it cannot be committed by non elect. The elect are not to premeditate what they will say at that time. they are to leave it to the inspiration of the holy spirit. if they don't allow the holy spirit to take over and say what it wants to say at that time then that is unpardonable. If they refuse to testify at that time that is unpardonable. I am not even sure that this is possible given that they are the elect and what "the elect" means and what made them elect in the first place. by definition the elect have already proven themselves in the age before this age of man in the flesh.

Is the *elect* from your point of view the same as the chosen and the blessed ones?