Ukraine and Russian forces engage

Rebels say they are getting Tanks and Reinforcements from Russia

Well it has to suck when the rebels you arming rat you out. I mean of course the rebels want to go public beause they need the morale boost but, the Russians have to be calling them up and telling them to shut the hell up. We just denied all that armor crossed in Ukraine and now you are verifying it, Shut up ya idiots.

a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

I see you forget Russia accused Ukraine of a number of things and provided no evidence of it.

nice double standard there.

Your own globalresearch seems to think the info is valid -
Geopolitics, Stock Markets and Media Disinformation: Ukraine Troops Destroy Part Of “Armed” Russian Convoy, Stocks Crash

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MessageforAll

They have provided satellite images... Pro Russians dismiss them.

Where?!???

I don't seem to be finding images, only talk.

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MessageforAll

They have provided satellite images... Pro Russians dismiss them.

Where?!???

I don't seem to be finding images, only talk.

The maybe you should stop talking and actually read whats put out. That seems to be a problem on the pro Russian side. You guys talk so much you miss things.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MessageforAll

They have provided satellite images... Pro Russians dismiss them.

Where?!???

I don't seem to be finding images, only talk.

The maybe you should stop talking and actually read whats put out. That seems to be a problem on the pro Russian side. You guys talk so much you miss things.

Oh, you should have just said there are no such images...thanks anyway.

originally posted by: FootBig

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
But I'm not going to bother actually... but in short, BRICS control a rapidly shrinking 11% of GDP and are dependant on western investments and consumer demand

And guess what?

ITS BEEN CUT

You have no idea what you are talking about, repeat after me.

BRICs have no debt

BRICs have no debt

BRICs can grow, because they have no debt, Your mighty USA and EU, would already have collapse without QE program of money pump.

And I promise you, you will see for yourself the day money pump stops, I look forward to your posts on ATS then

LOL

Ok... Well you're a liar for a start

China has the biggest bubble hanging over it head in "world history" much of its debt is off the books so it's even worst than many fear, China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP as of June 2014

South Africa debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
India debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
Brazil debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

Russia has the lowest BRIC members debt levels but relies solely on its resource export economy which is due to EU demand, Russia doesn't sell or make anything else, where as the US & EU do do you understand how that affects your claims? Basically you're telling me a tramp is richer than a businessman because he doesn't have any outgoings or a bank lol

Lol if the EU decided to go elsewhere Russia goes under fast as in serious depression,.. , Russia has grown due to western capital, but not anymore and under sanctions will be racking up debt faster and faster with no way to stop the slide

www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

I've explained it in as easiest way possible for you to understand how a million miles of you are, understand also that western economies regardless of growth have been growing for century's not decades like BRICS, if the west decIdes the BRICS are a threat investment stops, western economies invested because there is literally no more room for mass growth as in emerging BRIC markets, but believe me there are plenty of other places in the world to invest and as I said that's already happened, enjoy the yearly slumps and your Russian overloads pathetic little plan

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MessageforAll

They have provided satellite images... Pro Russians dismiss them.

Where?!???

I don't seem to be finding images, only talk.

The maybe you should stop talking and actually read whats put out. That seems to be a problem on the pro Russian side. You guys talk so much you miss things.

Oh, you should have just said there are no such images...thanks anyway.

And the rebel leader is a liar as well I assume?

a reply to: MrSpad

What is wrong with rebels getting arms from Russia??

Kiev is getting arms and volunteers from numerous Western nations. That seems to be OK.

Putin is hesitating in Donetsk which I think is wrong policy. Russian military should have protected Donetsk. But it seems Russians are worried about escalation to a full scale war, probably even a nuclear war - which seems to be the reason for restraint.

However as West shows no signs of restraint, the war will escalate despite what Russians want.

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: FootBig

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
But I'm not going to bother actually... but in short, BRICS control a rapidly shrinking 11% of GDP and are dependant on western investments and consumer demand

And guess what?

ITS BEEN CUT

You have no idea what you are talking about, repeat after me.

BRICs have no debt

BRICs have no debt

BRICs can grow, because they have no debt, Your mighty USA and EU, would already have collapse without QE program of money pump.

And I promise you, you will see for yourself the day money pump stops, I look forward to your posts on ATS then

LOL

Ok... Well you're a liar for a start

China has the biggest bubble hanging over it head in "world history" much of its debt is off the books so it's even worst than many fear, China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP as of June 2014

South Africa debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
India debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
Brazil debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

Russia has the lowest BRIC members debt levels but relies solely on its resource export economy which is due to EU demand, Russia doesn't sell or make anything else, where as the US & EU do do you understand how that affects your claims? Basically you're telling me a tramp is richer than a businessman because he doesn't have any outgoings or a bank lol

Lol if the EU decided to go elsewhere Russia goes under fast as in serious depression,.. , Russia has grown due to western capital, but not anymore and under sanctions will be racking up debt faster and faster with no way to stop the slide

www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

I've explained it in as easiest way possible for you to understand how a million miles of you are, understand also that western economies regardless of growth have been growing for century's not decades like BRICS, if the west decIdes the BRICS are a threat investment stops, western economies invested because there is literally no more room for mass growth as in emerging BRIC markets, but believe me there are plenty of other places in the world to invest and as I said that's already happened, enjoy the yearly slumps and your Russian overloads pathetic little plan

Your economics is twisted by deep Western propaganda. Russia is, and always was an industrial nation.

Russia has considerable achievements in science and technology.

Russian science fell back due to communism. Now Russian science is making a comeback.

Exporting oil is not a crime - is it. You are mistaken by your view "European demand". Oil and gas have large markets outside Europe. You are mistaken in thinking that Russian export will fall if Europe stops importing.

originally posted by: MrSpad

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: tanka418

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: MessageforAll

They have provided satellite images... Pro Russians dismiss them.

Where?!???

I don't seem to be finding images, only talk.

The maybe you should stop talking and actually read whats put out. That seems to be a problem on the pro Russian side. You guys talk so much you miss things.

Oh, you should have just said there are no such images...thanks anyway.

And the rebel leader is a liar as well I assume?

Jeez! I was just asking for images and perhaps some additional info so I can decide for myself.

I guess y'all want to decide for me? Except, that ain't gonna work slim. I look at the data and decide for myself, right, wrong, or otherwise.

Typically, I find that those who insist so strongly, especially without evidence, are trying to "pull the wool" over everyone's eyes.

Now, if you please, some freakin' links to real image data.

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: MrSpad

What is wrong with rebels getting arms from Russia??

Kiev is getting arms and volunteers from numerous Western nations. That seems to be OK.

Really?

Firstly Ukraine and Ukraine alone is the only government which under international law and Ukraine's constitution can deal with its own internal affairs, what Russia is doing is illegal and in breach of a dozen international laws hence why Russia is not openly admitting to its activities inside Ukraine

Secondly the Ukrainian government withholds the right to tackle its own national integrity and internal affairs and can request on help from anybody she sees fit or willing to help

Imagine a world where any country was aloud to fun minority's to break away, imagine a world where after a close election outside country could arm the opposition to forcibly remove the winning party from office

The world would go to pot very quickly and chaos would ensue, we'd be back to waring tribes in no time, and so there must be international laws/rules we abide by or every country on the planet is fair game for outside interference

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: TritonTaranis

originally posted by: FootBig

originally posted by: TritonTaranis
But I'm not going to bother actually... but in short, BRICS control a rapidly shrinking 11% of GDP and are dependant on western investments and consumer demand

And guess what?

ITS BEEN CUT

You have no idea what you are talking about, repeat after me.

BRICs have no debt

BRICs have no debt

BRICs can grow, because they have no debt, Your mighty USA and EU, would already have collapse without QE program of money pump.

And I promise you, you will see for yourself the day money pump stops, I look forward to your posts on ATS then

LOL

Ok... Well you're a liar for a start

China has the biggest bubble hanging over it head in "world history" much of its debt is off the books so it's even worst than many fear, China’s aggregate debt level has reached 251 per cent of GDP as of June 2014

South Africa debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
India debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...
Brazil debt
www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

Russia has the lowest BRIC members debt levels but relies solely on its resource export economy which is due to EU demand, Russia doesn't sell or make anything else, where as the US & EU do do you understand how that affects your claims? Basically you're telling me a tramp is richer than a businessman because he doesn't have any outgoings or a bank lol

Lol if the EU decided to go elsewhere Russia goes under fast as in serious depression,.. , Russia has grown due to western capital, but not anymore and under sanctions will be racking up debt faster and faster with no way to stop the slide

www.nationaldebtclocks.org...

I've explained it in as easiest way possible for you to understand how a million miles of you are, understand also that western economies regardless of growth have been growing for century's not decades like BRICS, if the west decIdes the BRICS are a threat investment stops, western economies invested because there is literally no more room for mass growth as in emerging BRIC markets, but believe me there are plenty of other places in the world to invest and as I said that's already happened, enjoy the yearly slumps and your Russian overloads pathetic little plan

Your economics is twisted by deep Western propaganda. Russia is, and always was an industrial nation.

Russia has considerable achievements in science and technology.

Russian science fell back due to communism. Now Russian science is making a comeback.

Exporting oil is not a crime - is it. You are mistaken by your view "European demand". Oil and gas have large markets outside Europe. You are mistaken in thinking that Russian export will fall if Europe stops importing.

Ok prove it... What dOes Russia make? Other than vodka ..

Who can Russia sell it gas to? China... That all depends on western consumer demand whether Or not China need the fuel it's industries

Who else? Consider that China deal Is but 20% oF the deal Russia seeking with China ?

And what Russian science are you speaking of?

Let's take a look at all that you're claiming

a reply to: TritonTaranis

You are good at twisting the facts, I'll give you that.

China "off the books debt" has been overblown 5000 % by western propaganda, trying to stall unsuccessfully Chinese economy.

The debt of BRICs counted as foreign bought bonds that BRIC's has issued, is an investment into the country.

The TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS of debt US and EU have, makes BRICs looking like the best thing since sliced bread.

originally posted by: GargIndia
a reply to: MrSpad

What is wrong with rebels getting arms from Russia??

Kiev is getting arms and volunteers from numerous Western nations. That seems to be OK.

Putin is hesitating in Donetsk which I think is wrong policy. Russian military should have protected Donetsk. But it seems Russians are worried about escalation to a full scale war, probably even a nuclear war - which seems to be the reason for restraint.

However as West shows no signs of restraint, the war will escalate despite what Russians want.

I believe the problem is Putin is saying they are not giving weapons, and Ukraine is making it all up, then the Rebels confirm Ukraine is telling the truth and Putin is lying, again.

a reply to: MrSpad

there's a possibility that it's a set up.
previous rebel leader stepped down, reasons unknown.
current one trashes russia, reasons unknown.

there's just one question one has to ask about this whole situation: WTF?

russia being forced to act is rebels wet dream. they will rather risk getting putin pissed just to get the slightest chance of becoming part of russia than fight to survive to no end, because surely as hell they can't win without russian troops openly moving in. they won't loose, but they can't win either.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter

I see you forget Russia accused Ukraine of a number of things and provided no evidence of it.

nice double standard there.

Your own globalresearch seems to think the info is valid -
Geopolitics, Stock Markets and Media Disinformation: Ukraine Troops Destroy Part Of “Armed” Russian Convoy, Stocks Crash

Nice deflection.

Your own globalresearch seems to think the info is valid

Seems like that you havent the article pretty well which is why you used that to try and to disprove my claims, none of your claims have being thus far proven.


you forget Russia accused Ukraine of a number of things and provided no evidence of it.
Oh i see where your going with that, you must be upset that Russia accused Ukraine of fascists right? while you know what? based on that its rather accurate.

provided no evidence of it.

Fascism is rising in western ukraine as well the rise of the right sector whom are in control of the Ukrainian national new state police.

a reply to: tanka418

The problem with the Pro Ukrankian government supporters is that when they are faced with questions they wont face the truth and admit that there beloved Ukrankian government is the one whom lied about the Convoy attack fabricated news story.

As for the claims that they had released a video showing of an destroyed armed truck, they have to do better then showing ONE truck destroyed.

a reply to: GargIndia

Russia is, and always was an industrial nation.

Yup Yup.. Russia is still growing as these sanctions don't have any effects but i can see why the idiots in the EU want more sanctions on Russia they are such idiots as if they believe that these sanctions would make the Russian people protest agaisnt there government.

What sanctions basically is they increase the rise of prices every time products even foods. Also on other news The BRAVE AND HEROIC Hollande stated that Russia must respect the territorial integrity of Ukraine yet when Euporean Countries join the power growing beast does the EU respect each countries territorial integrity?

Hell no.

a reply to: TritonTaranis

under international law, as ban ki-moon has said, state of ukraine doesn't exist.

also, whenever some group of people opposing usa's stance gets vocal somewhere, regardless if it's a minority, majority or even a government, bombs start falling. THAT is illegal.

with ukraine, the problem is that the current government in kiev not only lacks the support of the majority of ukrainian people, but it's simply illegal - they've overthrown legally elected president, by breaking the constitution (the voting which they've used to back up their stance didn't have the majority required by ukrainian constitution, that's a FACT), and they did it with the support from the west. so basically the west helped to overthrow legally elected government and install a fascist regime that most ukrainians can't stand, especially minorities like russians living there (which, in some regions, aren't a minority at all). all that, and you're blabling about international law?

how about telling the west to GTFO from ukraine for a start?

originally posted by: jedi_hamster
a reply to: MrSpad

there's a possibility that it's a set up.
previous rebel leader stepped down, reasons unknown.
current one trashes russia, reasons unknown.

there's just one question one has to ask about this whole situation: WTF?

russia being forced to act is rebels wet dream. they will rather risk getting putin pissed just to get the slightest chance of becoming part of russia than fight to survive to no end, because surely as hell they can't win without russian troops openly moving in. they won't loose, but they can't win either.

They are not trashing Russia. They are grateful for the support and are simply saying as much.