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Video of Michael Brown robbing store just before being shot to be released today.

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posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Sure this person is a thug.

You or I both do not know if the person in the video is indeed Mr. Brown.

If this is Mr. Brown, and Ferguson PD didn't fabricate their police report then why wasn't this information released days ago?




posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010

If this guy was an accomplice then why hasn't he been charged?


I've been wondering about that myself since there's absolutely no question that that was Dorian Johnson in the video. My guess is that he would have been an accessory to robbery instead of the prime suspect, and since the prime suspect is no longer alive to defend himself against the charges, Dorian can't be charged with accessory.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Yes he put his hands on him, the news has been showing the actual video over and over.

Regardless of what he allegedly did, this young man did not deserve to be shot multiple times in the back for jaywalking. The cop says Brown reached for the gun, the friend says he didn't. The police obviously timed the release of the video with the release of the officers name to portray Brown as a bad guy and take some of the focus of the officer. Looks like it's working.

Brown's stealing of cigars and the use of intimidation does not justify the killing of this young man nor does it justify the way the police handled the situation after. The treatment of protesters, the use of tanks and intimidating the press to leave. The Michael Brown shooting and the police reaction after where totally unjustified. When did it start becoming ok for the police to become judge, jury and executioner.

If they think releasing those images will change the minds of everyone, they are sorely mistaken.


edit on 15-8-2014 by Jennyfrenzy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
Really, robbery! Come on! It looks more like shoplifting with the use of his size as intimidation. Didn't realize stealing a pack of cigars was a capital offense with the execution to be carried out Wild West style. Oh wait, his crime that day was jaywalking, that's much worse.




Shoplifting occurs without confrontation. This guy strong arm robbed the store, so yes, robbery. And if the reports are true of him going for an officers gun inside his car, then yes....deadly force is justified. Either way....this is not some major tragedy....a "contribute nothing to society and take what I want" thug got killed.


No it's not justified -- Deadly force that is.

Did he succeed in getting the gun? No, and when he didn't, what'd he do? He ran. It's likely that he felt the cops would try to kill him and he was attempted to defend himself and when that didn't succeed, he ran. There is nothing deadly force about this situation once he failed to get the officers gun.

Deadly force is a switch that flips off as fast as it flips on. Once a situation is under control, as in the threat has been diminished, deadly force is no longer necessary.

I feel like a different scenario will paint this to be obvious.

Scenario:

Man has a knife and is threatening to kill you, he's 20 feet away and it's a standoff, officers have guns trained on him.

Scenario 1. Justified Deadly Force

Man threatens to throw the knife and pumps to throw it, police open fire. Justified.

Scenario 2. Acknowledging the threat has been diminished and continue with normal RoE.

Man quickly flick throws the knife, it hits an officer in the arm. Shooting this man is UNJUST. If you didn't know he was going to throw it and it happened without anyone shooting to PREVENT it, the threat is now automatically diminished, since he no longer has possession of the weapon and he's held up at gun point. It's now easiest to take this man in for attempted murder, rather than playing judge jury and executioner, killing him on the spot for hurting my BROINBLUE.

Now, you seem to be the type of person who thinks the man in Scenario 2 should be dead, even though he did more harm than the guy in scenario 1.

The reason why Scenario 1 is justified is he was an ACTUAL threat, and therefor deadly force is the mandate for defense.

The reason why Scenario 2 isn't justified, is because the threat came to pass -- even successfully, he can no longer be a threat and it's an officers job to make this distinction. You can't stop something from happening if you don't know it's going to happen, after it happens, you can't be the executioner because he DID something. That's what court, judges, and juries are for.

So flipping back to the incident in Furgeson, the only time deadly force was justified was when he was attempting to grab the officers gun. Before that it WASN'T justified, AFTER that it WASN'T justified. It's ONLY justified WHILE it's happening, because AFTER it happened, the threat has already passed.

Now had he continued to fight the officer, instead of turning and running away, deadly force would have STILL been justified -- but that's NOT the case here.
edit on 15-8-2014 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Oh come on!!!!!!! Is everything a damn conspiracy on here or in your mind?

The only victim in this entire situation is the poor little what appears to be an Indian guy. Does anyone think about HIM??????? Here he is trying to run a business which produces taxes for the city of Freguson. Meanwhile, this big thug black kid robs him and proceeds to assault him. Meanwhile, the same community burns down his business.

And you bet your a@# they didn't want the police officer's name revealed right after this happened. He has innocent family too. What if gang members or whoever went after his wife and kids, gf, family???????

Bottomline is the police officer probably lost it after the altercation. How many of you would have lost it to????

THIS IS A BIG F'ing KID! He didn't deserve to get shot but you live by the sword you die by the sword.
Sad thing is this black community will get NO support or sympathy from the surrounding white communities.

And this wasn't simple shoplifting. This was a REAL FELONY Mr. Brown committed. ROBBERY!



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:23 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

Vasa..I've yet to hear a sworn statement quoted from. Perhaps one has been, but I have yet to hear it. I've heard statements repeated second hand to witnesses. I've heard a couple actual witnesses to the shooting in the street who were so bad for pausing to think while they spoke, I wouldn't buy a box of cookies from them, let alone believe a word they said about how this happened.

On the police side? Until this morning when the press conference referred to some of this evidence coming to be seen by outsiders for the first time? It's been in the hands of the very departments I saw open fire on my fellow citizens two nights ago. I wouldn't trust a cop from those if they told me my hair was on fire and came with an extinguisher to help save me. I'd have to put my hand up and get burned before I trusted them. What they've done here is THAT bad in my view..and the motivation to cover-up at ANY level? THAT strong.

Is the guy in the street the same guy in the video? I don't know. I'm not a vid expert or medical examiner. Lets get a few witness statements from inside the Quiktrip down in a sworn version they WILL go to jail for lying with on a case this big ...and I'll call 'em statements I'll rely on as factual. They may already be out there..and I haven't seen them?

Until then? A kid planning for college in a couple days was shot to death by a department who attempted to do the same to the whole damn neighborhood a couple days ago. Their video evidence ranks with the Bigfoot video until someone OUTSIDE has signed off on it being legit.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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originally posted by: TheBandit795
Police Now Claim Michael Brown Was a Robbery Suspect. But Did the Officer Who Killed Brown Believe That When He Pulled the Trigger?


The FPD did, however, post a still from surveillance footage it claims shows Michael Brown in the act of robbing a convenience store of a box of cigars. The claim is being cited by police apologists as important in the context of the shooting of Michael Brown. In my two and a half years covering police brutality issues here at Reason (and before that a year and a half of doing the same on Freedom Watch), and in my years of reading about these kinds of stories, I have never come across an incident where someone suspected of a crime who was shot by cops wasn’t immediately identified as such in initial news reports. Cops make sure this information gets out, because they believe it will strengthen their narrative, provide the right context for their shooting. It’s impossible to say for sure that Wilson didn’t know Brown was a robbery suspect when he engaged him, but if he did know it, police have no compelling reason, and have given none, for why that information was withheld. Considering that mainstream media are often quick to give cops the benefit of the doubt, police identification of Brown as a “suspect” may have kept the national media from covering the story at all.


I think from the initial reports of some of the people in the community stating that the cops knew Brown suggest this is not his first run in with the law. If he is indeed 18 and had just graduated or whatever, then his criminal history may not be able to be released. My "guess" is that he has been in trouble a few times before for similar crimes and when the report came in and the cops saw him and he fit the description they were pretty quick to assess the situation and the probability it was him was very high. Once confronted and the struggle occurred it was undeniable and the shooting occurred.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:24 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

And what proof do you have of this claim?

I have read many police reports, some of them being an incident report after a store robbery. Those reports never mention someone by name, only by description. The fact Mr. Brown is mentioned over and over again raises flags.

The evidence I have seen is scanty at best. I do feel like the Ferguson PD and their apologists are grasping at straws here. Time will tell, but no reasonable person trusts anything coming from the Ferguson PD right now.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:25 PM
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originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Sure this person is a thug.

You or I both do not know if the person in the video is indeed Mr. Brown.

If this is Mr. Brown, and Ferguson PD didn't fabricate their police report then why wasn't this information released days ago?


I will tell you why beyond a shadow of doubt that this is Brown in the video.....because if it was not then the person that was in the video would have come forward at this point just to inflame things more.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: GrimReaper86

Don't really have an opinion yet on why. I think this was trumped up and blown way out of proportion by the media in the quest for ratings, and b people there and everywhere that wanted to see something crazy on livestream or get internet famous. I think there are racial tensions, tensions with police, people are miserable in neighborhoods like that and may express anger in nonconstructive ways. I think there are a ton of reasons why this got so big.

I don't think this was a set up. I don't think the cop went out looking for a kid to shoot. I don't think the kid made good choices that day, but I've got nothing after he stole/assaulted someone. For all I know the cop could have shot him in the back with his hands up, or the cop is telling the truth.

I will say I don't think this is some test. If anything it showed that police need to take off the riot gear to get a better reaction. In a weird way I see this whole thing as more of a positive (except for a young guy(s) being killed). We've seen almost the exact same thing a number of times, tear gas and riot batons aren't new. The people that protested were awesome, the looters were crappoops, but in my opinion not representative of the community at large. I actually got a little emotional seeing all those people standing together peacefully after they were given some respect.
edit on 1520140820141 by Domo1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: Vasa Croe

originally posted by: TheBandit795
Police Now Claim Michael Brown Was a Robbery Suspect. But Did the Officer Who Killed Brown Believe That When He Pulled the Trigger?


The FPD did, however, post a still from surveillance footage it claims shows Michael Brown in the act of robbing a convenience store of a box of cigars. The claim is being cited by police apologists as important in the context of the shooting of Michael Brown. In my two and a half years covering police brutality issues here at Reason (and before that a year and a half of doing the same on Freedom Watch), and in my years of reading about these kinds of stories, I have never come across an incident where someone suspected of a crime who was shot by cops wasn’t immediately identified as such in initial news reports. Cops make sure this information gets out, because they believe it will strengthen their narrative, provide the right context for their shooting. It’s impossible to say for sure that Wilson didn’t know Brown was a robbery suspect when he engaged him, but if he did know it, police have no compelling reason, and have given none, for why that information was withheld. Considering that mainstream media are often quick to give cops the benefit of the doubt, police identification of Brown as a “suspect” may have kept the national media from covering the story at all.


I think from the initial reports of some of the people in the community stating that the cops knew Brown suggest this is not his first run in with the law. If he is indeed 18 and had just graduated or whatever, then his criminal history may not be able to be released. My "guess" is that he has been in trouble a few times before for similar crimes and when the report came in and the cops saw him and he fit the description they were pretty quick to assess the situation and the probability it was him was very high. Once confronted and the struggle occurred it was undeniable and the shooting occurred.



He could have been a suspect for murder, that still doesn't make his homicide justified. It makes it even less justified sharing that the police in the area knew him personally. Regardless if he was a repeat criminal -- it's not THEIR JOB TO JUDGE JURY AND EXECUTE.

That power belongs to the court and the court only. The only time Justified Homicide could have occurred was during the wrestle for the officers weapon. If he was shot during this frame of time, it would have been justified, but once Brown gave up and RAN AWAY, it becomes UNJUSTIFIED, because the THREAT was diminished when the aggressor decided to FLEE, surrendering his position as aggressor.

At this point, the police officer in question switched roles and became the aggressor when he decided to shoot a man running away from him in the back.

That's unjustified for civilians, it's NO different for police -- they should be held to a HIGHER standard, not a lower one.
edit on 15-8-2014 by Laykilla because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:30 PM
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originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: abe froman

If this police report is valid, then why is it just now being released. Wouldn't this information being out days ago, helped the Ferguson PD with justification of the shooting?


What I really do not like abut the police report is the fact it mentions Brown by name. There would not have been enough information at store robbery to positively ID Brown in time for the police report. Because of this I suspect the report was written after the fact, in an attempt to make the shooting seem justified.



Because there's absolutely no chance the other 4 or 5 people in the store knew him by name right?



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: Vasa Croe

Yes he put his hands on him, the news has been showing the actual video over and over.

Regardless of what he allegedly did, this young man did not deserve to be shot multiple times in the back for jaywalking. The cop says Brown reached for the gun, the friend says he didn't. The police obviously timed the release of the video with the release of the officers name to portray Brown as a bad guy and take some of the focus of the officer. Looks like it's working.

Brown's stealing of cigars and the use of intimidation does not justify the killing of this young man nor does it justify the way the police handled the situation after. The treatment of protesters, the use of tanks and intimidating the press to leave. The Michael Brown shooting and the police reaction after where totally unjustified. When did it start becoming ok for the police to become judge, jury and executioner.

If they think releasing those images will change the minds of everyone, they are sorely mistaken.



The friend was an accomplice....already lost all credibility. No evidence yet of him being shot in the back except for eyewitnesses which can be placed in the "very unreliable" category. The police response was to the community reaction which happened first....blame the community for not letting the investigation happen and begin looting.

It is ok for the police to become judge, jury and executioner when you assault them and they fear for their safety.

Everything they have shown about this thug shows he is a thug. A video from minutes prior, to him assaulting a police officer. What...suddenly after he assaulted the store owner he got his wits and became a big teddy bear....seriously? Like I said, he didn't deserve to die, but maybe try not committing crimes and being thuggish enough to not be killed even if not justified......why are people defending this POS?



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:32 PM
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a reply to: jrod

As a very reasonable intelligent objective person and after seeing the video of Brown strong arming the QT owner/clerk I tend to believe the police instead of the young teenage black kids that have come forward.

Look bottomline is Brown wasn't innocent and shouldn't have lost his life. But the cop isn't completely and soley at fault here. The cop is human, a being that has his own emotions, fears, anxieties that play into why he reacted the way he did. NO ONE I'm sure in this entire thread has EVER been in the same situation.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm defending him because he lost his voice when his life was cut short while his hands were up in the air.

We will agree to disagree



edit on 15-8-2014 by Jennyfrenzy because: eta



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: jrod

The visual evidence is rather compelling, particularly the bright green sandals with the unusual fastening style. The physical characteristics are more then coincidentally similar. I feel safe stating with near certainty that the man in the video committing assault is Mr. Brown and I am not prone to rushes to judgment.



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
a reply to: Vasa Croe


Until then? A kid planning for college in a couple days was shot to death by a department who attempted to do the same to the whole damn neighborhood a couple days ago. Their video evidence ranks with the Bigfoot video until someone OUTSIDE has signed off on it being legit.


Can't wait for his grandma to post his college applications as evidence of her truly sweet and gentle boy that was about to become a highly educated scholar...../sarcasm



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: jrod
The police report seems fraudulent to me...


Anything is possible but it seems obvious now that the man engaged in a criminal assault on the clerk was Mr. Brown.

There is actually a video of this, and he does take the cigars, but it was far from "violent" he pushed the guy, once. Still, as wrong as that is, being shot 8 times is a little mucch



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

Ha! Yeah and you know his hands were up in the air because you were told that. You are making assumptions based on incomplete facts and heresay too!

Oh poor Michael Brown……..such an innocent little teenager who was such an angel………..lol



posted on Aug, 15 2014 @ 01:36 PM
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originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
I'm defending him because he lost his voice when his life was cut short while his hands were up in the air.


The only way we will know this with any type of surety is when the ballistic forensics are released.



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