Alaska Then and Now

Here's some pictures of Alaska then and now. Ha just a repeat of the title, but anyways I'm not much of a climate change person. I figured that those of you who are would enjoy picking this apart. I myself don't know too much about the subject to actually give a decent response, but I'll try.

Came across this on earthporm.com it's an awesome site with a lot of random stuff about Earth.

www.earthporm.com...

a reply to: Wanderer777

Nice OP
As the graph below shows, the Earth had bean warming for the last 18,000 years. It is nothing new.

Take another look at the graph and you will not see any nice straight lines anywhere. Our planets temperature goes up and down like a yo-yo.

Our little play in the sun for the last 10,000 years or so is just that, play time before the cold returns.

As far as the Earth is concerned, we are just insignificant little bugs, more like an infection really. Think of us like a fungal infection between your toes.

The next cold spell is just around the corner, once again look at the graph. Our governments know this, they have to, the graph is really clear on this issue.

It matters very little what we do from here on in. We are just so insignificant and without FTL space flight, we are not even an infectious bug.



P

originally posted by: pheonix358
As the graph below shows, the Earth had bean warming for the last 18,000 years. It is nothing new. Our planets temperature goes up and down like a yo-yo.

This isn't a line of argument. The climate reacts to whatever the dominant forcing on it at any one time is. At the moment, that's us, so it's reacting to the excess of greenhouse emissions we're pumping into the atmosphere. Saying 'the climate has changed before' isn't an argument, nor does it support your point of view.

originally posted by: pheonix358 As far as the Earth is concerned, we are just insignificant little bugs,

Completely wrong. To put this into perspective, humanity emits more C02 in 3 days than all the volcanoes on Earth put together in an entire year. We're not insignificant. Hydrocarbon resources are major reservoirs of greenhouse gases and we are rapidly exploiting these.

originally posted by: pheonix358 The next cold spell is just around the corner, once again look at the graph. Our governments know this, they have to, the graph is really clear on this issue.

No it's not. On a practical timescale the world is about to get a lot hotter.

originally posted by: pheonix358 It matters very little what we do from here on in.

That's completely false. Alarm bells should start ringing when the entire scientific community disagrees with you.

a reply to: pheonix358

Yeah I've heard that it's all just cycles the Earth goes through that causes most of the changes. To me that makes much more sense. I mean sure we humans don't really help the situation. Thanks for the information phoenix. Much appreciated

a reply to: NoExpert

Not trying to be snide or anything, but if everyone in the world stopped using cars and burning coal and doing everything else to stop greenhouse gasses the problem would stop.
Also if you have some more information about the volcanoes CO2 release compared to our own that would be helpful.
We may be exploiting our natural resources, but what is the alternative. Some may argue that it's too late to make a serious change on our exploitation of fossil fuels. We'd have to change everything and that costs a lot of money, and most people can't afford it or others who can just don't want to spend that much.

a reply to: Wanderer777

Well, being an Alaskan most of my life, portage glacier filled half the lake, by the time I was an adult the glacier could not been seen from any point on the lake.

Just nature taking its course. We all could use a change in the scenery once in a while.


Now, 300 ft tall... I don't think so. Not even if it was measured from underwater.

Also.. The reason for "no veggitation" is that it's a black an white photo, and looked like fall or spring. The only thing green in that time frame in Alaska is spuce trees and my custom cigarette.

Nice photos though

Sorry, I just couldn't get over how beautiful those pictures looked. I want to visit Alaska.

Some of the pictures have big differences (glacier loss), but others look like the only difference in snow loss could be between summer and winter months.

During Roman times there was very little glaciation in Norway, warm enough for decent grape crops in southern Britannia, seems like humans survived okay!
As for volcanoes, I am of the opinion that they spew out more crap than humans do, this thought is mostly due to a lot of reading on the subject over the last ten years.
I was really surprised to learn that termites produce more CO2 than bovines, and humans f**t hydrogen sulphide, which is why it stinks! Just how does the human gut produce hydrogen, and sulphide?

I adore old pictures tyty!!

Some of these before and after pictures could have been taken standing in the exact same spot. It was very aw inspiring to gape and wonder at these glimpses of the past.

originally posted by: Wanderer777
a reply to: pheonix358

Yeah I've heard that it's all just cycles the Earth goes through that causes most of the changes. To me that makes much more sense. I mean sure we humans don't really help the situation. Thanks for the information phoenix. Much appreciated

Ah, just say to yourself "natural cycles makes sense" and ignore six decades of work from thousands of scientists who look at this in detail with real physical understanding?

What doesn't make sense to me? WIllful complacency and ignorance.

Of course there are natural influences--and unnatural ones. Quantity, numbers, physics matter.

We may be exploiting our natural resources, but what is the alternative.

Don't exploit the ones that change the climate.

Some may argue that it's too late to make a serious change on our exploitation of fossil fuels. We'd have to change everything and that costs a lot of money, and most people can't afford it or others who can just don't want to spend that much.

We have plenty of uranium and even more thorium.

Alaska is a beautiful state!

s&f for the pictures!

I was born and raised in Southeast Alaska.
We used to go frog hunting, exploring, and lots and lots of fishing.

We moved, and I didn't get a chance to go back for 25 years.

When I came back, there were hardly any frogs like there used to be.
A lot of the species of fish changed as well, and lots of sea lions, which were not there when I was a kid.
The glaciers still were there though.
The environment is changing for sure, but it's not dying.
It is a rain forest, and that all still seems intact,
but the frogs are almost gone.


There is nothing like the smell of a glacier in the morning.
I can't wait to get back!

Nice Photographs. Yes they show receding glaciers.

Some interesting points about the photos.

The Muir Glacier photo of 1950. It states that the glacier had already receded 2 miles since 1941...so what happened from 1941 to 1950? Did WW2 cause the recede? The Atom bomb? Or the normal fluctuation of Earth's Climate?
Did anyone notice that the mountains actually have glacial scarring much higher than that shown in the pictures? Yes that was a result of the "Ice Age"......something we are still warming from. (supposedly)..The Ice age just didnt stop and everything bloomed again....it takes 1000s of years.

I love how the old pictures seem to distort perspective. What looks close or near in the old photos, looks far far away thru modern lenses.

I also noticed that, with all the melting of those glaciers, the actual water level at the cliff faces, seems to be about the same....but so many experts tell us that the Earth will be flooded, when the ice melts... etc etc, the reality is it doesnt look like it.
Perhaps as the glaciers melt, there are more clouds (water) in the air. Apparently, it is the reflection of the white ice that perpetuates the ice age anyway.....I understand there were less clouds and rain during the ice age...that the Earth was actually drier (lack of liquid water) than now. As it is on the Antarctica currently.

What a wonderful Planet we live on.

Did you know that before the advent of antibiotics pandemics were cyclic with the sun? The Earth goes through many different types of cycles.

a reply to: NoExpert

Saying 'the climate has changed before' isn't an argument, nor does it support your point of view.

Because you decree it I suppose!

humanity emits more C02 in 3 days than all the volcanoes on Earth put together in an entire year.

Yea OK, source or location you pulled this from?

No it's not. On a practical timescale the world is about to get a lot hotter.

Maybe true ...... it does seem to be going to Hell. Now, can you back that up? Source? Research?

Alarm bells should start ringing when the entire scientific community disagrees with you.

Not this old chestnut! Really? And let me guess, you have asked every one of them .... no .... too much work?

Your post just supports the other side because of you inability too see shades of grey.

This is not the black and white issue you think it is.

Lastly, yes, the world will get a little hotter .... and then a whole lot cooler. Coming soon.

P

"Everything is acting in unison on the environment - it's not just the ice loss or the warming or the acidification," said UAF chemical oceanographer Jeremy Mathis.

"The Arctic is taking a multilateral hit."

Mathis' newest data from the Gulf of Alaska shows acidity levels far higher than expected are already having an impact. In several sites the increasing acidity has changed ocean chemistry so significantly that organisms are unable to pull crucial minerals out of the water to build shells, he said.

www.scientificamerican.com...

I have a lot of friends in AK who fish for a living.
The industry is slowly dying.

This is due to acidification on top of everything else that has started to change.

Anyways, check out the article.
It is from 2009.

AK!

Thanks for sharing this, those pictures are a trip!

I love living here, not sure if I'll ever leave.....

Bear glacier (a few pics down in the link) is actually a sick surfing spot! I went out there with my buddy one time, got sea sick and nervous combined, and didn't paddle out, one of the most regrettable moments of my life I shall redeem myself....

S&F.

Going and viewing your link with an open mind and not being on anyone's "side", I have to say that those photos made me go back and forth a lot. I mean that in the very best way. The beauty that is there is equally inspiring, whether Before OR Now.

Awesome!

Just found a good source of info for this volcanoes.usgs.gov... . It appears this is true for CO2 but not all emissions. It does appear that volcanoes can change the climate more quickly still though through other emissions. But these typically lead to global cooling not warming. Either way, I am less concerned about the weather than what we are doing to ecosystems like the Pacific Ocean and the Amazon Rainforest. I think in the near future we will learn to change our ways though. We may be stupid at times but we still are extremely intelligent.