Race, the War on Drugs and Mass Incarceration

Well I'd say that there are a lot of factors involved and race is one of them. Are we somehow denying that race is a factor here? It's not like I am saying its the only factor.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
Well I'd say that there are a lot of factors involved and race is one of them. Are we somehow denying that race is a factor here? It's not like I am saying its the only factor.

I would agree that there are a lot of factors that go into crime--poverty (although rich people commit crime too), single mother homes with no father figures, a culture of crime that is glorified by music and media, drugs, etc.

However, I disagree that racism has the impact that many claim it does and this is just an excuse. Nobody wants to hold up a mirror and see the truth of what is wrong with their society or their ethnic group or their culture and they need to push the blame elsewhere and crying "racism" is a convenient way to blame someone else for your own failings.

Regardless of the situation, when a young man picks up a weapon to do a violent act, the fault for that act is his and his alone, ultimately.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Private corporations making billion dollar profits from taxpayer funded government contracts which have powerful lobby groups and probably payments and benefits for politicians. The US government is becoming a profit generating part of corporate America, they are becoming indistinguishable from one another. ?? Left or right is probably irrelevant at this level of corruption.

Can you show one instance where government would do a better job? How is government's track record compared to private corporations? Do you think the post office would be better if it were run by government or corporations? Maybe you think the VA is a shining example, how about social security been to one of their offices lately? Oh and lets not forget the great and wonderful IRS, how that working for us? Sure it easy to blame corporations, but please provide an example not some pie in the sky that would be better, because it sure wouldn't be government.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree with you that too much effort is wasted placing blame when it would be better served thinking up and implementing solutions, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Racism is clearly a factor in the high rates of black incarceration. If it were solely poverty then there would be more white people incarcerated than black people since there are more white poor people than black poor people.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

I agree with you that too much effort is wasted placing blame when it would be better served thinking up and implementing solutions, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. Racism is clearly a factor in the high rates of black incarceration. If it were solely poverty then there would be more white people incarcerated than black people since there are more white poor people than black poor people.

BUt who, per capita, commits the most crimes?

a reply to: NavyDoc

Well going by official statistics the answer is black people, but the official statistics are based off of charged crimes. If white people are committing crimes and not being charged for them, then they go unreported and the stats get skewed. Part of the racist element of the justice system is that black people are charged with worse offenses while white people are barely charged if they are charged at all.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Well going by official statistics the answer is black people, but the official statistics are based off of charged crimes. If white people are committing crimes and not being charged for them, then they go unreported and the stats get skewed. Part of the racist element of the justice system is that black people are charged with worse offenses while white people are barely charged if they are charged at all.

Really? What is the evidence for that. (Actually the rates in my article also include arrests and charges.) Are you suggesting that if a white person robs a liquor store, the cops just go, meh, and let him walk?

a reply to: NavyDoc

I'm more referring to drug charges going uncharged.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

I'm more referring to drug charges going uncharged.

My article shows a preponderance of incarcerations across the board--rape, robbery, assault, murder, not just drugs.

a reply to: NavyDoc

I know what your article shows, but we both know that drug crimes and victimless crimes in general outnumber violent crimes by a wide margin.

Victimless Crime Constitutes 86% of The Federal Prison Population

According to 2006 statistics, 1 in 36 adult Hispanic men are behind bars, as are 1 in 15 adult black men. If we limit the data to black males between the ages 20 to 34, 1 in 9 are behind bars. Keep in mind that 86% of those men in federal prisons are there for victimless crimes. They have not stolen any property, damaged any property or harmed anyone directly by their actions. Of course, if you are reading this and live in the US, you are paying for all those people to subsist on a daily basis. Roughly 34% of all prisoners in the U.S. are incarcerated for victimless crimes.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

I know what your article shows, but we both know that drug crimes and victimless crimes in general outnumber violent crimes by a wide margin.

Victimless Crime Constitutes 86% of The Federal Prison Population

According to 2006 statistics, 1 in 36 adult Hispanic men are behind bars, as are 1 in 15 adult black men. If we limit the data to black males between the ages 20 to 34, 1 in 9 are behind bars. Keep in mind that 86% of those men in federal prisons are there for victimless crimes. They have not stolen any property, damaged any property or harmed anyone directly by their actions. Of course, if you are reading this and live in the US, you are paying for all those people to subsist on a daily basis. Roughly 34% of all prisoners in the U.S. are incarcerated for victimless crimes.

However, they do follow the same pattern and same per capita rates do they not? This demonstrates a trend that is not explainable by a "racist system."

This is not Mayberry circa 1955--the very municipalities we are talking about also have on many occasions black mayors, police chiefs, DA, cops, CO, and jury members. Are they racist too, when they arrest and convict and incarcerate AA people?

If your premise is that we have to many malum prohibitum laws and should stop the war on drugs as a complete waste, then I agree.

I just don't think the system is "racist" like many claim.

a reply to: NavyDoc

Well that is really all I want is for the war on drugs to end. It is the giant elephant sitting in the room taking up 90% of the space while we all sit around and argue about the rats taking up the remaining 10%. Legalizing drugs would fix SOOOOO many problems with this country that our idiot politicians try to fix individually when in reality they are all linked together through the war on drugs.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: NavyDoc

Well that is really all I want is for the war on drugs to end. It is the giant elephant sitting in the room taking up 90% of the space while we all sit around and argue about the rats taking up the remaining 10%. Legalizing drugs would fix SOOOOO many problems with this country that our idiot politicians try to fix individually when in reality they are all linked together through the war on drugs.

I don't disagree at all. Not only does the federal government not have the enumerated power to determine what you do or do not ingest, the WOD has been an extremely expensive failure.

a reply to: NavyDoc

What is sad is that there is precedent for its failure before the WoD even started, Prohibition. Yet for some reason we have to keep plugging along with a system that was already proven to be doomed to fail before it started and has since followed through on that prophecy.

a reply to: MarlinGrace

The system is corrupt. There are 2 links I posted on the previous page which you could read. As for me providing an alternative which might be an improvement look to other countries which have lower incarceration rates and lower prison population for a start.
I'm not really interested in trying to suggest a better system to you, as there is no point. You can learn about that yourself if you wish.
I find it interesting how this particular system works and how it has been corrupted and exploited for maximum profits. And that is one of the reasons why America has the unenviable title as number one country in the world for incarceration and prison population. Which I find quite incredible. Why is that? There must be many contributing factors and I don't pretend to know them all or how to fix it.

originally posted by: JimTSpock
a reply to: MarlinGrace

The system is corrupt. There are 2 links I posted on the previous page which you could read. As for me providing an alternative which might be an improvement look to other countries which have lower incarceration rates and lower prison population for a start.
I'm not really interested in trying to suggest a better system to you, as there is no point. You can learn about that yourself if you wish.
I find it interesting how this particular system works and how it has been corrupted and exploited for maximum profits. And that is one of the reasons why America has the unenviable title as number one country in the world for incarceration and prison population. Which I find quite incredible. Why is that? There must be many contributing factors and I don't pretend to know them all or how to fix it.

Your links both share a slant that is skewed to a liberal progressive slant in a major way. It's easy to point fingers, it is quite another to offer a solution. Anyone can pretend to know what is wrong with anything but the thinkers try to figure out a way to fix systems and operations. Your global research is way off, having visited a couple of prisons in Ca. there isn't any manufacturing with a 25 cents an hour pay scale. And if you think they are throw in some kind of segregation because they don't work isn't accurate either. There isn't that many adseg cells to handle the rebellion of non workers if it was to happen.

I find it comical some people think we should legalize drugs to stop filling prisons, to me this is like legalizing robbery to reduce incarceration. They are criminals that have broken the law. If society says don't do something it is against the law, why is it people like you can't figure out how easy it is to just not break the law, and quit making excuses for those that do. And check wiki, the incarceration rates require a little more research than just picking a number from a blog or a progressive site. An example would be our incarceration rate includes every person held from federal to local to illegals on the border, how many other countries have this problem?

a reply to: MarlinGrace

Here's some more then. I think there might be something wrong there. And it's not a simplistic problem or easy to fix and that's assuming you acknowledge there is a problem.


U.S. prison population dwarfs that of other nations

www.nytimes.com...


Why does America have such a big prison population?

www.economist.com...


U.S. Has World's Highest Incarceration Rate

www.prb.org...


Crime > Prisoners > Per capita: Countries Compared

www.nationmaster.com...