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Why is it you are more likely to dismiss evolution If you are an American?.

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posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 07:14 AM
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originally posted by: StalkerSolent
originally posted by: Prezbo369
Could be. It's just my understanding that the Muslim population are reproducing faster than the non-Muslim population, especially in Britain.


The muslim population in the west has a reproduction rate just as low as any other group in the west. I think you've been listening to...


Aren't there fringe nationalist parties over there going into all sorts of hysterics about that?


Yes of course right wing fringe nationalist parties are going nuts over it, just like they have for the last 60+ years, that's all they're about.



Wiki says 2% of scientists in the US are YECs, 8% believe in evolution guided by God, 87% believe in evolution by mechanistic processes, and 3% NA. Those 2% can be pretty vocal about it, and the Republican-Evangelical Complex gives them a nice platform.


Right so when you said ".We've also got a lot of scientists here that don't believe in evolution, so perhaps people are more open to skepticism because of the divergence of opinion."

You were utterly and completely wrong....yes?


I am, partly...


Pretty hilarious how many americans claim to be ever-so-slightly native american.......lol

I don't believe you, but even if it were true.....so what?

The native american holocaust was hardly an example of "In America we root for the underdog, question authority, and generally are rabble-rousers."........now was it? could it be you were talking from your rear end?


Perhaps I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that most atheists believe in evolution.


That might be true, but it has everything to do with education, not the fact that they're (atheists) not theists.


Obviously atheism has been around long before the modern theory of evolution, but it seems only natural that people who don't believe in God will believe in evolution. If you've got numbers showing otherwise, I'd love to see them!


Numbers? where are your numbers for your claim?

It's only natural that educated people (theist or atheist) accept the theory of evolution........keyword: educated



Eh, science has tenets, although perhaps that wasn't the best choice of words. My main point is that evolution (true or false, it doesn't matter) provides a convenient bedrock for atheism, which has consistently been oppressed by theism throughout the ages.


The rejection of the claims made by theists do not require any such 'bedrock'. Many atheists think we were created by aliens, no gods or ghouls required.


If one is a theist, one may believe in evolution, but there's no real drive for most people to do so (remember, most people don't interact with the geological column or microbiology on a day-to-day basis.)


Education......


If you believe in a God/sky fairy/flying spaghetti monster, why also bother to believe in evolution when your deity of choice could just create everything? I'm not endorsing this thinking, but the OP wondered why the US of A had such low belief in evolution. I suspect it's related to religious belief, as he posited.


That was fairly obvious, the US isn't the only religious country in the world yet more of it's population rejection evolution than in other religious countries..


In my experience, evolution in the US is sometimes seen as pushing atheism, which is by-and-large rejected by Americans. So the rejection of atheism leads to a rejection of evolution, since they're seen as going hand-in-hand.


....that's due to of a lack of education on the matter....


My bad, I should have been more specific! Anglo (and then) American ideas have been setting the bar since the mid-to-late 1700s; the US as a nation was pretty insignificant in the Grand Scheme Of Things until post-World War One. Thanks for catching me there!


It was just a good example of you spouting wildly biased and incorrect information.
edit on 17-8-2014 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)




posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 08:18 AM
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a reply to: boymonkey74

Can't speak for others, american or not.
But this american, as in me? I just see the amount of biological
organisms, that have existed thru time, declining to the still huge
number we see on earth today. And I realise the evidence for evolution
should be everywhere. If there were a lick of truth to it, science wouldn't
have to hunt and contrive and hope, for something to show up in the
fossil record. The proof should be overwhelming. But it isn't, is it?



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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a reply to: Expat888




Maybe one day theyll catch up to the rest of the world and get proper education.


You mean like the one your parents paid for, or you're still paying for?
I can read all those lies right here on the internet just fine. Why pay ?



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 09:16 AM
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originally posted by: Prezbo369



The muslim population in the west has a reproduction rate just as low as any other group in the west. I think you've been listening to...


Linky
^ I don't think the demographics will play out as people think they will. They rarely do. But still, this bears out my original thought: demographics suggest that SOME parts of Europe will be largely Muslim in 50-60 years.
If you can find fault with the study, please let me know so I can either find a better source or stop using the claim. Thanks!



You were utterly and completely wrong....yes?


No.
Two percent of American scientists in the United States is a lot of scientists. (And those are just the YECers) If it say we have a lot of murderers in the United States (we do) you'd believe me, right? But they're a fraction of the population.

Still, I'm glad you cited numbers. You are certainly correct that it is a statistically small percentage of scientists.




Pretty hilarious how many americans claim to be ever-so-slightly native american.......lol

I don't believe you, but even if it were true.....so what?

The native american holocaust was hardly an example of "In America we root for the underdog, question authority, and generally are rabble-rousers."........now was it? could it be you were talking from your rear end?


And why don't you believe me? A lot of Americans are ever-so-slightly Native American.
And which holocaust? A lot of the natives died of natural causes. Some of the tribes were systemically destroyed or "moved for their own safety." (Trail of Tears.)

Personally, I think some of those stack up pretty high on the list of what America did wrong.
I wasn't there at the time. Can't do anything about it.



Numbers? where are your numbers for your claim?


Which claim? That most atheists believe in evolution? I used logic for that one. If that's wrong, please let me know! I don't have any stats on that.



That was fairly obvious, the US isn't the only religious country in the world yet more of it's population rejection evolution than in other religious countries..

In my experience, evolution in the US is sometimes seen as pushing atheism, which is by-and-large rejected by Americans. So the rejection of atheism leads to a rejection of evolution, since they're seen as going hand-in-hand.


Do you have stats of other religious countries (like the Muslim countries) to back up your claim? Thanks!

Hmm. The US of A is generally acknowledged to have really sucky education (at least in some schools), yes. But there are educated people in the States who do not believe in evolution. And there are a lot of educated people who downright attack it.

It's possible you are right, and education is the decisive factor. Hopefully you made a post to the OP.
I suspect that philosophical trends in the United States that reject atheism and view evolution as atheism's handmaid may have played a role (we may have sucky education, but as far as I know it doesn't reject the theory of evolution–at least across the board in public schools.) Perhaps in Europe atheism and evolution are not seen as linked together in that way. Remember, here we have the Republican-Evangelical Complex aggressively promoting an alternate viewpoint.

So, in the US, while the quality of education may be lame, if they're being taught the theory, why are they rejecting it? Or are those rejecting it all outside of the public school system? Do you have data on that?



It was just a good example of you spouting wildly biased and incorrect information.


Or perhaps I just use "few" in a non-technical sense.
You know, a few posters (two) a few coconuts (four) a few examples (three.) You're correct, though, I should have been more accurate and more specific.


And I think you have a different theory to propose to the OP, which is good. Hopefully you shared that someplace else.

edit on 17-8-2014 by StalkerSolent because: Formatting!

edit on 17-8-2014 by StalkerSolent because: Fine-tuning!


edit on 17-8-2014 by StalkerSolent because: What is demography?



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 10:10 AM
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Reply to: StalkerSolent

The Telegraph (your link) is the newspaper of the middlebrow right wing in England. They carry some tripe at times.

The accusation that Muslims conspire to outbreed other religious groups is an old one, and worldwide. I can show you examples of such claims made a hundred years ago in my small South Asian country, where Muslims are an even smaller minority now than they were then. Unfortunately, they are written in a script you will not be able to read, but you'll find such accusations common enough anywhere Muslims are found — in a minority. I suppose they spring from the thought that a man with four wives can have more children than a man with one. What the envious don't take into account is that for every man with four wives, there are three men with none.



edit on 17/8/14 by Astyanax because: it's par for the course.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Astyanax

Thanks Astyanax! If you happen to know that this article in particular is tripe, please don't hold back!

I should clarify; I don't believe the Muslims as a whole are *conspiring* to outbreed others; rather, I've just noticed a correlation between religious piety and lots of children, regardless of the numbers of wives. So, for instance, in the US of A people might wonder if you are a Mormon or Catholic if you have lots of kids, and I believe we have similar stories about the Mormons and Catholics "conspiring" to have more kids than everyone else.

Might I add, that's a really cool anecdote.
I'd be interested if you want to elaborate.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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a reply to: StalkerSolent


I've just noticed a correlation between religious piety and lots of children, regardless of the numbers of wives... in the US of A people might wonder if you are a Mormon or Catholic if you have lots of kids, and I believe we have similar stories about the Mormons and Catholics "conspiring" to have more kids than everyone else.

No, you suggested that acceptance of evolutionary theory would diminish in Europe because it would soon be overrun with Muslims. When shown that such an assertion is nonsense, you first tried to substantiate it with a paranoia-feeding article from a newspaper well known (though perhaps not in America) for its reactionary views, and are now changing your claim altogether. Courtesy and a positive attitude are very welcome in this forum, but do try to be honest as well, eh?



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax
a reply to: StalkerSolent


I've just noticed a correlation between religious piety and lots of children, regardless of the numbers of wives... in the US of A people might wonder if you are a Mormon or Catholic if you have lots of kids, and I believe we have similar stories about the Mormons and Catholics "conspiring" to have more kids than everyone else.

No, you suggested that acceptance of evolutionary theory would diminish in Europe because it would soon be overrun with Muslims. When shown that such an assertion is nonsense, you first tried to substantiate it with a paranoia-feeding article from a newspaper well known (though perhaps not in America) for its reactionary views, and are now changing your claim altogether. Courtesy and a positive attitude are very welcome in this forum, but do try to be honest as well, eh?


I think you're reading me wrong. If the article is factually incorrect about the rise of Muslim in Europe, (again, demographics are just educated guesses anyway) then please feel free to correct me! Until then, I stick by my first claim, that Muslims are proportionally growing in Europe faster than the rest of the populations, at least in some areas. I theorize (but may be proven incorrect) that acceptance of evolution in Europe will decline as devout Muslims increase. Time will tell whether I'm right about that or not.

I simply see Muslims in Europe as part of a larger, worldwide link between religious belief and childbirth. Does this make sense? My arguments certainly do evolve, either because they are unpersuasive or because someone shows them to be incorrect, but I do try to learn from my mistakes! Am I missing something?

Edit to add: the Almighty Wiki suggests that while belief in evolution is low in Muslim countries, it is rising. If that's true in Europe as well, then I'm probably wrong–it also lends some credence to Prezbo's link between education and belief in evolution. Do you happen to know anything about Muslim beliefs on evolution in Europe?
edit on 17-8-2014 by StalkerSolent because: Addendum.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: StalkerSolent


I simply see Muslims in Europe as part of a larger, worldwide link between religious belief and childbirth. Does this make sense?

No. There are plenty of counter-examples to the ones you proposed. Protestants. Buddhists. Taoists. Followers of the Shinto Faith. In Islam, Sufis.

Besides, the question is off topic at two removes, not just one. I think we've discussed it quite enough.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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originally posted by: Astyanax




Besides, the question is off topic at two removes, not just one. I think we've discussed it quite enough.


That's probably true. Sorry, OP!

Thanks for the counter-examples...maybe it's more of a USA-centric thing. I appreciate the feedback, and I apologize if I seemed deceptive.
edit on 17-8-2014 by StalkerSolent because: Formatting!



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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the reason why americans most resist the politically enforced evolution fad is because of the inherent freedom of expression and free thinking and out of the box, the same reason why america have all new inventions of the world.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Starbucks

Lol ok whatever but you are wrong.
About everthing in the post.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Starbucks

Lol ok whatever but you are wrong.
About everthing in the post.


Well, you did ask why. I suggested that there was a perception in the USA that evolution was the handmaid of atheism. Perhaps there's also the perception that it's politically driven. (Especially considering the long and glorious history of court battles in the US over evolution in public schools.)



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 03:44 PM
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the fact that all inventions are american is not true?

the fact of freedom of expression inherent in the american constitution not true?

the fact that evolution is europpean not true?

the fact evolution is paid fraudelant research paid by secularist bankers not true? (agnostics)



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 04:13 PM
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I'm pretty sure only a very small % of people take internet polls/surveys or wherever they dragged the information up from.

And of that small % I would be willing to gamble most of them have a lot in common, being that they are the kind of people that take part in said polls/surveys, on facebook or whatever.

I don't know anyone that has ever been asked their views on evolution by national geographic, or anyone for that matter. They don't ask about it at the doctor, or DMV, and it sure wasn't on the 2010 census.

By looking at the results I would come to the conclusion that more people in parts of the world with crappy weather spend a lot more time on their PC taking internet surveys. And depending on culture or whatever the group that takes the surveys in the US are facebook moms from Texas.

Just saying.
edit on 17-8-2014 by PassiveObserver because: Grammer

edit on 17-8-2014 by PassiveObserver because: Grammar*** lol >. extra DIV



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 04:29 PM
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a reply to: Starbucks


the fact that all inventions are american is not true?

Correct, that statement is false. Contact lenses, the compact disc, the television, the aerosol spray can, the battery... all invented elsewhere. And those are just a couple that I can think of off the top of my head.


the fact of freedom of expression inherent in the american constitution not true?

Not sure what the relevance of that is?


the fact that evolution is europpean not true?

What we think of as the initial idea of evolution may have come from a European, but do scientific theories have a nationality? Is gravity European? Is atomic theory European? Is germ theory European? Because all of those originated with Europeans, and Americans don't seem to have a problem with those theories. Capitalism, Christianity, and democracy didn't originate in America either. What's your point?


the fact evolution is paid fraudelant research paid by secularist bankers not true? (agnostics)

Do you have any kind of evidence for this assertion?



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 04:40 PM
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a reply to: Starbucks

Wow really?.
If you are so ignorant about inventions outside th usa why in hell should I take anything you say as fact?.
You khave proved many points people have made.
Education. Education eEducation
Education. Oops phones gone crazy.



posted on Aug, 17 2014 @ 04:43 PM
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rockefellar's money is the higher source of evolutionists. all of them scrambling to get some.
this is the origin of evolution!



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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a reply to: Starbucks

Wow. Tell us more.



posted on Aug, 18 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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originally posted by: Starbucks
rockefellar's money is the higher source of evolutionists. all of them scrambling to get some.
this is the origin of evolution!


I thought the origin of the Theory of Evolution was Charles Darwin. What history books have you been reading?
edit on 18-8-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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