An Army in Ferguson tonight! Sporadic Twitter/Facebook censoring of #Ferguson hashtag

a reply to: Greven
Forehead/eye... close enough! It means the officer was aiming at his forehead but missed and hit him in the eye. Simple misunderstanding on your part. It is no smoking gun...

a reply to: Mikeultra
Stop acting like you have any clue as to what happened.
The officer has not reported what happened to anyone we are aware of.

The shot to the eye traveled down through his face and jaw before lodging in his collarbone.

a reply to: Greven
You're missing it. The alleged friend of Wilson stated the last shot was in the forehead. Translated that means Wilson intended the last shot to be in the forehead, but he was slightly off in his aim. He hit Brown either in the eye or it was the other head shot to the top of the head as Big Mike crumpled to the ground, his charge halted in the nick of time!

a reply to: Mikeultra
The alleged friend also only claimed one shot to the head.

Oops.

What tripe


Brown had ample time and position to make that happen

If brown wanted him ded thats what he would be
a reply to: Mikeultra

a reply to: Greven

Why should I mimic that sketch? That sketch isn't of the body, it is a generic autopsy sketch of the human body to indicate where and what wounds exist. And you probably run wrong...always point your fists towards the direction you are running to generate the most force for burst speed. Keep your arms close to the body on endurance runs to prevent excess energy use. During the motion of your arm that part of your hand falls in position that it could be grazed. Look at the direction of the graze, towards the body if at roughly a 90 degree angle. Also the graze on the inside of the right arm. Again, matches if your arm is in a running motion with your forearm at roughly a 90 degree angle from your body. Again, the head shots only indicate that the officer continued to fire while Brown went down. It does seem excessive, but this is how most officers are trained when it comes to a potentially violent situation. Officers don't get into fisticuffs, they shoot or taze. If no taser available, they shoot.

This is how a professional athlete does it:





People who aren't professional athletes often flail their arms out and clinch their fists when running, opening up the interior even more.

Now to show you I am not biased in this, I also think they could happen if someone is twisting their hands back in forth while up, kind of like saying "I give up, I give up". The shots along the arm line up with the shots to the head if his arms were reaching for the sky so to speak.

a reply to: raymundoko
And where Brown's wounds are don't seem to be visible from any part of the arms of those men as they run. Notice how their forearms are facing away? Notice in the sketch that the wounds are opposite that?

Point proven.

Speaking of which (emphasis added):

As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials.

a reply to: Greven

No, those are professional athletes and I said as much, those who don't know how to run often flail their arms opening up the interior.

From your link:

Some of the accounts seem to agree on how the fatal altercation initially unfolded: with a struggle between the officer, Darren Wilson, and the teenager, Michael Brown. Officer Wilson was inside his patrol car at the time, while Mr. Brown, who was unarmed, was leaning in through an open window.

Many witnesses also agreed on what happened next: Officer Wilson’s firearm went off inside the car.

But on the crucial moments that followed, the accounts differ sharply, officials say. Some witnesses say that Mr. Brown, 18, moved toward Officer Wilson, possibly in a threatening manner, when the officer shot him dead.

And yes, it also says what you quoted, but one could argue those were warning shots as they didn't hit anyone.

"Generally, warning shots are prohibited and may not be discharged,” reads the order. “However, in exceptional circumstances, and where a warning shot(s) might reasonably be expected to avoid the need to use deadly force, the warning shot(s) shall be directed in a manner that minimizes the risk of injury to innocent persons, ricochet dangers and property damage.”

If Brown had really just assaulted an officer and attempted to steal his gun, you can bet your bottom dollar that officer had no intention of letting that individual leave the situation, alive or dead.

I think ultimately the issue is you already made up your mind on what happened, which is why you pick and choose what you want to read in these articles.

Edit: He may also not have been running, like I said, perhaps he was walking towards brown with his arms out or up in a threatening manner. Even if that was the case, he had already wounded the officer and attempted to steal his gun...the officer can't allow that individual to get close enough to try again.

Edit 2: I just marked my arm in the same spots with a pen. When mimicking a running motion I can see all of the pen marks except for the one on the inside of the forearm.

a reply to: Greven

No, just said the final shot...didn't say the only one.

a reply to: Greven

I don't see why it would be an issue if he rushed twice...once while the office was in the car, once after the officer exited the car...

a reply to: raymundoko
The shot to the top of the skull was down into his skull.

And Dr. Baden disagrees in the report and autopsy:

One of the bullets entered the top of Mr. Brown’s skull, suggesting his head was bent forward when it struck him and caused a fatal injury, according to Dr. Michael M. Baden, the former chief medical examiner for the City of New York, who flew to Missouri on Sunday at the family’s request to conduct the separate autopsy. It was likely the last of bullets to hit him, he said.

Further, this new report from the NYT says that authorities agree that Wilson fired a shot as Johnson and Brown ran from his vehicle, which corroborates many witness accounts. It doesn't matter if it was a warning shot or not.

Please note that the 'source' in question - the anonymous alleged friend of Wilson - never mentioned that Wilson fired a shot while they were running. Forgive me if I fail to see any validation in light of these multiple contradictions.
1) No mention of shot while running
2) Says forehead, rather than top of skull and down through eye
3) Says forehead was last shot
4) Does not mention two shots to head

a reply to: Greven

As far as 1 through 4...IF it were coming from the police officer immediately after the shooting: In a case such as what we may think may have happened, the officer, having received a beating, emptying his gun as Brown "bum rushed" him may have thought his last shot was at the guy's forehead but as the guy was falling forward it is no stretch to imagine the last 2 hitting as described. The condition of the officers perception could very well have been such that he believed his last shot was to the forehead (providing he did not examine the body).

When one is "under the gun" confusion and potentially inaccurate reports are common. If 6 people witnessed the shooting, it is also not outside the realm of reality to get 6 varying accounts of what happened.

I saw a classic example in a study on perception... several people were video taped and then questioned about what they saw (was nothing traumatic...just questions regarding specific actions an additional person took) and it was odd that most of those in the group were WAY off ... what they perceived and remembered just moments later was at odds with what the video showed. All the more reason for officers to carry the personal recorders so that any incident can be recorded and then misperceptions of those involved and witnesses are no longer a factor.

a reply to: bbracken677
Even still, can't the same thing be said about the many witnesses? They said Wilson shot at Brown, and that Brown jerked and turned around.

It's a reasonable assumption that from a distance they might have thought he was hit. He may or may not have been, actually:

Forensic pathologist Shawn Parcells, who assisted former New York City chief medical examiner Dr. Michael Baden during the private autopsy, said a bullet grazed Brown's right arm. He said the wound indicates Brown may have had his back to the shooter, or he could have been facing the shooter with his hands above his head or in a defensive position across his chest or face.

"We don't know," Parcells said. "We still have to look at the other (elements) of this investigation before we start piecing things together."

We just don't know. Have you noticed how many people who have jumped at the chance to shout down witness testimony because the released autopsy sketch showed no back entry wound?

If we extend a courtesy such as you suggest to the anonymous caller who gave a second or third hand account (or worse) of the story, why not the witnesses?

And I certainly agree that cameras would have eliminated many questions and as Ferguson appears to have some, they ought to be using them.

a reply to: Greven

I discounted her version when I stated "IF if were coming from the officer immediately...."

Fact is, we do not know what happened and have not even heard from the officer yet, nor have we seen any evidence supporting the claims he was beaten, which maybe he was, maybe he wasn't.

My remarks about the veracity of witness accounts apply to all witnesses... they may get most of it right, but most often stories will vary somewhat in the details.

Add in the powderkeg that this is and an additional aspect comes up: Subjective accounts based on supporting positions rather than simple unbiased accounts. This also applies to the officer, who certainly has a dog in the race.

The best we can hope for is that the forensics will paint a clear picture of what happened. I trust not the accounts we have heard so far, and I will take future accounts with the same grain of salt.

originally posted by: Another_Nut
What tripe


Brown had ample time and position to make that happen

If brown wanted him ded thats what he would be
a reply to: Mikeultra

what tripe.
brown at 18 barely able to wipe his own butt, could not have "killed" anyone.

a reply to: spirited75

If he wasnt capable of killing anyone

Then why was he gunned down?

If the officer wasnt afraid for his life

Then he had no justifiable cause to shoot

So ya

originally posted by: spirited75

originally posted by: Another_Nut
What tripe


Brown had ample time and position to make that happen

If brown wanted him ded thats what he would be
a reply to: Mikeultra

what tripe.
brown at 18 barely able to wipe his own butt, could not have "killed" anyone.

Very disingenuous statement bordering on intentional ignorance.

In 2000, about 1,561 youth under the age of 18 were arrested for homicide. In 2000, nine percent of the murders in the United States were committed by persons under the age of 18. One in ten teens arrested has been engaging in a violent activity that could have resulted in the serious injury or the death of another person.

what tripe....

originally posted by: Another_Nut
a reply to: spirited75

If he wasnt capable of killing anyone

Then why was he gunned down?

If the officer wasnt afraid for his life

Then he had no justifiable cause to shoot

So ya

the officer had a fracture of his orbit caused by the obese Brown who hit him in the face.
other injuries would be when the car door was slammed on the officer.

the fracture of the orbital bone within which is housed the eye
takes a fair amount of force to fracture.
the coup counter coup injuries of the officer were not diagnosed, and he could have had a mild concussion.

needless to say, he would have had blurry vision watery eye in the one eye.

he told the obese criminal to stop and the criminal turned and charged him.

the officer fired several times and finally put the fatal round in the criminals head.

a reply to: bbracken677

re read my post where I said if the
individual was keeping an eye on Brown.


a lot of the murders by under 18 are
on other kids 20 and under.


brown would not have a chance against the police officer
in level playing field hand to hand.

the playing field was not level in this situation
the officer had eye and skull injuries
brown did not, in fact the only deficit brown had was between his ears.
he appeared to be well fed over the remainder of his body, but
if you do not feed the mind it atrophies.

www.facebook.com...

Hearsay

Etanice sidestep

So what is it ?

Was he a threat that needed gunning down

Or

A dimwit who couldn't wipe his ass?

Make up your mind you cant have it both ways