The Monster Within... A Message to the Depressed.

a reply to: Roufas

Your comment makes a lot of sense. I hope more people read this. The other thing I would add to this, is to not compare yourself to other people. I was sort of raised or not raised with this no excuses mind set. I would try to achieve the same goals as someone else without my problems. A small easy goal to others maybe a nearly impossible looking goal to someone with depression or without the same opportunities.

Well I read through and was wondering how to respond to this. I had someone on ATS attempt to tear me apart for this but I kind of don't care anymore

I am a licensed therapist and work with all manner of 'mental illnesses' including depression. I am also a long time sufferer of Bipolar I disorder. Yes I take Depakote...and yes it has literally saved my life. I'll very briefly summarize my story so as not to bore, if you for some reason want to, my other lengthy thread has it in detail.

35 years old this month and suffering bipolar I for about 20 years now. I have seen the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. I have been invincible and I have been utterly destroyed within the same month. Anyway, long story short I have tried several medications including the dreaded lithium and today I am on Depakote, and while not perfect, I am SO much more balanced than I have ever been

So enough of my BS...I want to tell you what I see as a couple humongous problems in the view of depression from both professionals AND layman.

1. There needs to be MUCH more cross communication. And yes I blame both the professionals and the community at large to be honest, though more so professionals. We come from this model (medicine, psychiatry, and psychology) where we 'treat, cure and have expertise.' I find this to be utterly disturbing. My grad work and license are indeed in clinical psychology and I recall all through grad school the sterile feeling we were preached and taught. We were diagnosticians and so-called experts. Now we may (and I use that term may VERY loosely) be experts in our field. I can give you definitions of all sorts of disorders. At one point I was forced to remember every criteria of every single personality disorder and recite them. I can diagnose very well I believe but that is where I believe things fall apart immediately. The truth (as I see it) is that diagnosis is for two things

So we can neatly categorize everyone we think need help and so we can prescribe things. It is actually very common in psychiatry that a doctor will purposefully give a diagnosis of bipolar to someone suffering major depression. They do this because they can bill differently and that diagnosis opens the client to more medication options. You judge on your own the ethical nature of it...I am not an MD and I only diagnose what I truly feel

However, we the public have GOT to communicate with the medical and mental health professionals to make sure they know we want to be taken seriously. But I recognize immediately how hard that can be when you approach dozens of uncaring professionals who through a technique or pill at you and tell you to come back in two months. So I would say the problem of communication is like 80/20

2. There HAS to be a balance of understanding and assistance. This again IMO falls on both the professional and the lay person. The psychiatrists of this world make their money by treating but also by being wooed by big pharma. BUT...and I am serious about this...I get real tired of people who tell every person who suffers that they should never take medication. I have personally and professionally seen what happens to a severely ill person when they refuse medication. I hate to break it to you, but some people truly need assistance from medication and I think it is selfish and very dangerous to tell people to just take an herbal or ignore all medication options. Again, I DO agree that medication is passed too flippantly, but there are people who cannot live or function without that assistance.

With that said of course, I fully agree that medication is only assistance and those same clients need to talk things out. The point is, one course of action is NOT effective for all...period. It's the same when I hear someone say the only way they will ever be cured is to talk about their past, or ignore their past and only think about the present, or to get exercise or whatever. You have to tailor therapeutic treatment to a person, not to people. Some people who suffer depression need to delve into why. Some who suffer depression need to move past those issues and discuss how to cope in the present. Blah blah you get the point.

3. Finally, the serious stigma. I want to punch babies when I hear people tear into the rant about the true selfishness of suicide and self-harm. I am not advocating the act in any means. I see suicidal people at my hospitals every single night and I will do all I can to help. But it is so offensive to my ears/eyes to see/hear people say suicide is so selfish, or it is so cowardly, or other people have it worse. These things are so damaging to those who endure depression every day. Yes I agree that those who remain who are close to someone who has ended their life are deeply affected and I feel for each and every one. But until you reach that pinnacle…and I mean REALLY reach that pinnacle where you are a step away from doing it, I don’t really believe you can understand what it is like. It is an enduring inescapable pain that appears to only have one solution. I have been there twice, once with an attempt that I paid dearly for. The point is not to feel sorry for me or for that matter anyone who suffers depression or has thought about or attempted suicide. The point is we need a rapid and wholesome shift in the way we view people. That’s right…people. I don’t care if you have major depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, ADHD…I don’t care…you are always a person first and not a disease. A human. Someone who deserves every ounce of care that you desire. But that is how we as a society and big pharms sees us. We are a disease to either blame something on (media) or to throw ridiculously expensive pills at (big pharma/psychiatry). It has to stop…it really does

We all have our own requirements to cope with depression. For me, it’s very now-centered with therapy and my own personal work and it’s also medication centered. For you (generic you) it could be a vast range of things

Either way…I care and like many have said, my U2U is open any time.

The whole world is in manic depression mode, the problem is we all don't talk about it enough.

We're depressed because although it has taken time to understand, we've all realized that we were born as slaves.

This slave world is the cause of 1% of the people of the world. The elite.

Very hard to argue against what I've just wrote.

One good thing to know is the world is waking up, but is it too late? Too many are dependent of the machine that enslaves us.

a reply to: souljacker

It can be hard to talk though - sometimes you reach out to people you think you can trust, tell them what's going on, and they make it worse. It's really hard to know how someone will react to you turning to them for help in this situation, and while it's not their fault, it makes it even harder to dig your way out. It's like you're sitting bleeding and broken at the bottom of a cliff, and you call out someone's name, hoping they'll throw you a rope, give you a hand, something.. But instead, they throw rocks down the cliff, thinking it will help because you'll be able to climb up eventually. But instead, you're hit in the head, you're buried even worse, and you're still at the bottom of the cliff, but now you have all these rocks to deal with too. Some of those rocks are guilt, or other people's disappointment in you, or cliches, or lack of understanding. Sometimes it's that the person you call for doesn't even go as far as throwing rocks, they just run in the other direction and pretend they didn't hear you.

Even strangers - helplines, therapists, whatever, don't even help, and can sometimes hurt more. And every time you cry out for help, and you experience something bad, you feel more isolated, more like you're an awful human being, something hopeless, and you feel more like quitting. And it's exponentially harder to reach out again, because now you have this wealth of negative experiences that tell you that it's not even going to help anyway.

For me, the only things I've found that helped, were people who reached out to me, who wanted to help me when they saw something was wrong. And all they did that helped was listen, not judge, and tell me good things about myself, things they believed. It's easy to feel like the world hates you or ignores you, or just doesn't care, when you're depressed. And it's extremely easy to see every flaw you have in giant detail, while you can't even remember your virtues. Having someone else remember for you is helpful. Really, truly, helpful. Could I have told someone that that was it when I was at my darkest? No. It's just that those things happened, and they helped. Having other people validate your pain helps, too. Like something bad happens, and they agree with you that it's bad. They don't try and reframe it as a positive, they don't tell you that x, y, or z people all have it worse (you know that, which makes you feel guilty that you're unhappy, which makes you feel worse), they just say "Yeah, that really blows, ".. helps you feel less alone, less like you're crazy.

That's a very depressing video. Another great advice from some I don't know who, blegh.

What does he wanna say? That because he knows what it feels he's gonna stay with me til the end? Do whatever I wanna do or nothing at all? He's there, not here. That I need to do that for someone else that feels also depressed? Where are they for me then? There's no one here in my life that wants to, or has the time to, sit all day with me doing something or nothing at all.

It's nice theory and all, and surely with good intentions, but for the average depressed it's extra depressing advice because the multitude is alone and lonely as hell. O great, we can replay his vid a zillion times, that will help...

What make depression worse is when you are actually reaching out and actually telling people your depressed and still nobody reaches out to even talk to me. This is why I try to hide it. why waist my time telling anybody if nobody wants to even try helping by talking to me. It just sucks that people can make me feel so alone even in a crowded room.

originally posted by: Inannamute
a reply to: souljacker

It can be hard to talk though - sometimes you reach out to people you think you can trust, tell them what's going on, and they make it worse. It's really hard to know how someone will react to you turning to them for help in this situation, and while it's not their fault, it makes it even harder to dig your way out. It's like you're sitting bleeding and broken at the bottom of a cliff, and you call out someone's name, hoping they'll throw you a rope, give you a hand, something.. But instead, they throw rocks down the cliff, thinking it will help because you'll be able to climb up eventually. But instead, you're hit in the head, you're buried even worse, and you're still at the bottom of the cliff, but now you have all these rocks to deal with too. Some of those rocks are guilt, or other people's disappointment in you, or cliches, or lack of understanding. Sometimes it's that the person you call for doesn't even go as far as throwing rocks, they just run in the other direction and pretend they didn't hear you.

Even strangers - helplines, therapists, whatever, don't even help, and can sometimes hurt more. And every time you cry out for help, and you experience something bad, you feel more isolated, more like you're an awful human being, something hopeless, and you feel more like quitting. And it's exponentially harder to reach out again, because now you have this wealth of negative experiences that tell you that it's not even going to help anyway.

For me, the only things I've found that helped, were people who reached out to me, who wanted to help me when they saw something was wrong. And all they did that helped was listen, not judge, and tell me good things about myself, things they believed. It's easy to feel like the world hates you or ignores you, or just doesn't care, when you're depressed. And it's extremely easy to see every flaw you have in giant detail, while you can't even remember your virtues. Having someone else remember for you is helpful. Really, truly, helpful. Could I have told someone that that was it when I was at my darkest? No. It's just that those things happened, and they helped. Having other people validate your pain helps, too. Like something bad happens, and they agree with you that it's bad. They don't try and reframe it as a positive, they don't tell you that x, y, or z people all have it worse (you know that, which makes you feel guilty that you're unhappy, which makes you feel worse), they just say "Yeah, that really blows, ".. helps you feel less alone, less like you're crazy.

Yes, this is exactly it thank you, I couldn't have said it better myself.


Peace.

Man that was a awsome video and it hit home for me big time! !! Truth is I think I'm days away from this. Don't know how much more I can take! !!

Had to wipe one or two tears from watching that video. Got me thinking about my best friend and how much I appreciate that he has never let me down, and if he ever happens to find me in that state; he always tries to help me get back up on my feet, in whatever way he can.. -Even though he is otherwise a rather cynical person.

a reply to: KyoZero

Thank you for your post. It comforts me. I feel like I'm the problem and people say . You have to stop thinking like that or you need to eat , exercise, get out more. When I don't want to be around people . They stess me out.

Im just gonna back out of this thread now, im not gettin any where by telling anybody here about my depression or why im depressed. Anyway back to building walls and pretending everything is a ok.

Peace.

Robin Williams death hit me harder than I expected too, because like everyone says, he has 'everything' but more so because he was 63. and that made me tired. At 63 I had hoped to have all this sh** figured out by now, and happily enjoying my last 20-30 years, not still struggling with the same old demons, making me feel like I have accomplished nothing.

I hope everyone on this thread is ok today, I can't be one of those 'U2U me' folk, as I am at that stage myself where I can't open messages, but I am reading this, and thinking about each of you. [/ quote] I think RW did have money troubles . He may have had more than most but he was use to having alot more. Moneys not everything, but if you don't have it its a lot harder.

a reply to: Lichter daraus

I feal you . Iwish I could talk with you. Everyone needs someone

a reply to: xbox

well people have this terrible black and white, sometimes dismissive attitude. Go out and walk and your crippling depression will be solved!

-sighs-

yes...I admit for SOME people, such things may help, but for others, many, it will not

a reply to: RoScoLaz4

Diggin the EraserHead avatar buddy!

Its horrible to know that Robin Williams is gone. He seemed like such a genuinely good person. In my opinion, good people are often more depressed because there's so few of us left these days that's it's easy to feel completely alone. It's comforting to think that he's with his best friend Christopher Reeve now and they're having a blast. I've suffered from depression for years but no one seems to notice or care. I feel almost invisible most days and even loathe waking up to face another day. It feels like I'm just existing in some bubble that repels people away. I've contemplated suicide almost on a daily basis but my fear of the unknown is the only thing keeping me here. I'd kill just to feel like someone actually cares about me or at least wants me around. Maybe that's how he felt and just couldn't handle it anymore. Maybe he missed someone that was never coming back. I know I do.

I think something that helps is to try to live life without any expectations - not thinking, it has to be such and such a way.

One should always try to live in acceptance of whatever is. Dealing/living in the present, not longing for the past..

Suffering is the result of 2 conditions - craving and aversion.

- Wishing for what is not..

- Wishing that what is, is not..

Acceptance is the absence of these 2 conditions.

What gets in the way of acceptance are the defilements - things like hatred, pride/conceit and greed.

---

Some practical points to avoid depression - Do not stay indoors too long. Go outside every day, even if you have nothing to do. Take a walk around the block. Get some sun on the face; get some fresh air. Go somewhere. Do something.

Try to stay social. Talk to people. Try to engage in some sort of activity or work that is social.

I noticed nobody made it a part of their daily concerns until someone famous died. Chasing the ambulance? It's actually inappropriate, I think, to open up the subject of how compassionate one is about the victims, after someone died. Seems fake, because then in three days miss compassionest heartfelt goes omg I'd die if i ever did (whatever), and then the idea, with all the propaganda behind it, pills and counseling, is shallow.

So I revolt against sympathy youtubes.

In subconscious land, if everybody didn't promote the sui-word it wouldn't lodge itself into others' thinking patterns. NLP rules about the subconscious not registering the word "not" or "don't". Just say "don't think of a pink elephant" to get someone to think about it. Same with the suicide. Don't think about it. Well there you go, you just got some thinking about it.

You do know that announcing intent of suicide is a crime in some states? Then the mental health hospitalized person gets stigmatized and put on a list, right next to the ex-cons! So the vilification is there, it's not just "let's talk about this." Did you know the 2nd amendment doesn't apply in some states, after the s-word is declared in a hospital? Did you know there are often undercover law enforcement at behavioral health institutions, just like jails? That's a long term civil rights damage and exposure to harm from others, for a short term institutional taboo to appease municipal insurance rates.

Do you know that the cost of hospitalization, even after medical insurance pays for most of it, is still roughly $1,000 a stay about 10 days for psychiatric treatment? 1,000 a day if you don't have insurance, and you can't walk out of that without an attorney. Unless you are homeless broke, hospital bills are part of the grief. And the source of the emotions might not even be psychiatric to begin with. It might be a bad thyroid, a brain tumor, domestic violence, but that won't get addressed in a typical behavioral health hospital.

Depression. It runs in the family. I've seen it bad. The charity caseworkers that feast on others' misery is what really messes with your head. They wouldn't ordinarily be any help, someone had to pay them to lend a hand. Now that is just a symptom of the whole-society disease people have with depressed people.

I feel better telling those soul-suckers to buzz off.

a reply to: jude11

If there's one thing in that video, it's "Depression doesn't discriminate."

For me, my friends always ask me, "How could someone such as yourself be so down? You're fun to be around, funny, you're cute, crazy, random, you've always got something to say that keeps us on our feet. Why? How can you be like this?" and, I don't have an answer to something I can't completely understand. I'll be truthful, there isn't much of an effective arsenal for a constantly evolving enemy given I've lived with it since I was a teenager. Talking with others about my issues only suppresses the black mass within it's cage, rattle it and it finds new ways to come back, devising, the slow killer waiting to rip every fiber of my being apart, it's a waltz with a colossus, a human disease that rips apart all that makes myself. Accepting that I share the back of my mind with it, confronting head on always leads me to certain downfall, so I run. I run by becoming ever changing, and it's not an easy thing. Change must remain constant, I'll hang with friends, go to crazy parties, drink 3 to 4 days a week till we pass out, find a top notch car to leave the shadow behind and get a nights rest before it comes back angrier and hungrier, so to speak. When it catches you, it's adapted to my escape route and it's hell to escape. Everything you do, it eats at until you no longer feel you can enjoy it so it's like a game of Don't Starve. It was soon where, I found my friends seeing through the veil and asking if I needed their help but little do they understand that it can't be. However, there was a remedy that helped me, "personally." It was that I sought companionship and intimacy for the longest time, and I found it in a person I've known for years as she suffers from her own colossus, and we work symbiotically. We're fighting the battle together, and it's something we'll have to outlast.
But let me be real, we'll grow tired and we can't run forever.
I've accepted this fate a long time ago, and in reality, I'm waiting for the day to get eaten alive.