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One Gaza Issue Resolved. Israel Not Targeting Women and Children.

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posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:28 PM
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a reply to: charles1952

Considering that the women and children are being protected as best as the Gazans can manage, why would the younger, rowdier, more aggressively hormonal sorts be killed in greater percentages? Because they aren't inside.

When the inexpert declare their thoughts, support is required.

Here's mine.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

The IDF is a pack of hyenas. They are fed by us and we take the 'six' despite their being nothing but a pack of scum sucking dogs.




posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: charles1952

Dayum! Most excellent approach! I had never considered looking at it from a statistical approach. Never again can some closed minded -ahem- person claim that Israel is targeting women and children without rebuff.


Israeli terrorists don't target children????
www.abovetopsecret.com...

And what about this? I would think this is the general mindset of the Israeli terrorists:
Israeli lawmaker, Ayelet Shaked Facebook post where she calls Palestinians “little snakes” and declares that “the entire Palestinian people is the enemy.”



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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From August 12, 2012


US Kept Mum for Weeks on Israel’s Civilian Targeting in Gaza


Our OP stanchly states that Isreal is not targeting women and children. I do believe that 'women and children' make up the bulk of 'civilians' along with the elderly and infirm so maybe the OP will not accept this as a valid rebuttal but I do.

This article also attests the complicity of the US Administration in these, alleged War Crimes.



During the war, Israeli bombardment leveled whole urban neighbourhoods, leaving more than 10,000 houses destroyed and 30,000 damaged and killing 1,300 civilians, according to U.N. data. Israeli forces also struck six schools providing shelter to refugees under U.N. protection, killing at least 47 refugees and wounding more than 340.

But the Barack Obama administration’s public posture during the war signaled to Israel that it would not be held accountable for such violations.


www.commondreams.org...

Charles, it's your right to hold your opinion in this matter but to attempt to justify it and convince others of it's versasity based on misreprensations of facts is disingenuous as best and evil at worst.

I have a few friends, and they truly are friends - though things are strained right now, who hold your opinion that Isreal can do no wrong. We discuss it and cannot find commone ground. I think they are blind and they think I am blind. I don't know how this current, particularly blatant attack, will play out in our friendships and I suspect that by choice, their's or mine, some will end.

Denial is the last defense of an idea that no longer can bear the light of day.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: FyreByrd

You make a good point, if it is accurate. If it is, then it should be a simple matter to address the numbers and statistics presented.

Otherwise you are just making claims that Charles is misrepresenting the facts.

In this particular case, this OP, the numbers and calculations are either factual, or not. Easily verified or debunked.

Bottom line: Either you can debunk the numbers, or not.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:04 PM
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Following precisely the methodology of the original post, it is now also conclusively resolved and settled that Hamas is not targeting civilians or women and children in Israel either.
3 "Israeli" civilians ( two of whom were not citizens of Israel) have been killed and about 70 male Israeli soldiers.
"What's that? The methodology doesn't apply any more? Of course not, I should have known."


a reply to: charles1952



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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a reply to: FuManchu2

LOL there is one problem with your data collecting. Other than the inept missiles, Hamas has not the ability to target civilians in the current war/battle/conflict.

If you look at previous actions before Israel locked down travel Hamas intentionally targeted civilians. Suicide bombing in a civilians bus? Suicide bombing of a cafe or night club? Yep...those kinds of targets.

Granted...your statement is correct, but it's like saying that when I throw a rock up into the air I am not targeting Mars. I do not have the ability to hit Mars to begin with. Disingenuous.

edit on 13-8-2014 by bbracken677 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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a reply to: bbracken677

Ok, I will play your game using your rules.




LOL there is one problem with your data collecting. Other than the inept missiles, Hamas has not the ability to target civilians in the current war/battle/conflict.


Either Israeli's IDF has displayed a callous behaviour for innocent civilian lives or they display great ineptitude when using highly sophisticated and precise satellite guided weapons. There is no justification for the amount of innocent lives of children, women and men being lost at the hands of the IDF's inept use of highly advanced weapons. IDF has not displayed the ability to NOT target civilians in the current conflict.




If you look at previous actions before Israel locked down travel Hamas intentionally targeted civilians. Suicide bombing in a civilians bus? Suicide bombing of a cafe or night club? Yep...those kinds of targets.


Those actions cannot be justified despite happening many years ago . But since we are looking at previous actions; let's discuss present times that shows who today is targeting civilians. Here is a video from March of this year (4 months ago) of two Palestinian teens around the same ages of the three Israeli teens being executed by an IDF sniper. Thoughts? Can you justify the snuffing out of two teen boys lives for no apparent reason in this video?

www.theguardian.com...




Granted...your statement is correct, but it's like saying that when I throw a rock up into the air I am not targeting Mars. I do not have the ability to hit Mars to begin with. Disingenuous.


Kind of like when Israel bombed that hospital despite being warned by the U.N 17 times that it was only civilians (mostly women and children) who are there having injuries tended to that were caused by the IDF?

"When Israel's IDF throws a rocket up into the air they are not targeting Hamas. They do not have the ability to hit Hamas targets to begin with."

Which is clearly the case or else this thread would not be on the table for discussion.

I will wait for your perspective on that video link I provided above showing two innocent teenagers being executed before I decide if you are being disingenuous....



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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a reply to: charles1952
So Innocent Civilian Men are ok? Wondering if they got lucky with these numbers as they seem to be wanting to wipe the entire population out.

I don't buy this for a second, with respect.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: Involutionist

First off, I blame both sides for the conflict. There is no innocence here.



"When Israel's IDF throws a rocket up into the air they are not targeting Hamas. They do not have the ability to hit Hamas targets to begin with."


I am pretty sure you have seen the videos of Hamas firing rockets from next to a school and next to a hospital.
I am not privy to the IDF's targeting practices, but one would expect that they would target the area the launched missiles were fired from and return fire to that same location. That would be targeting Hamas, no?

Other than the above, and myself not being there to witness anything, I cannot attest to any other targeting practices one way or the other. Obviously IDF has access to Gaza, and hence where missiles are fired from. Just as obviously due to travel restrictions Hamas no longer has access from Gaza to other Israeli locations and hence cannot target civilians except via the unguided missiles.

There was also the article that was published about the UN school that discovered missiles inside. They reported the situation to the "authorities" who collected the missiles.

The statistics, based on the OP's analysis show that women and children are not targeted or the numbers would be higher. If you wish to argue that point, then just use the numbers and debunk the conclusions.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:16 PM
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Statistic pages that OP used were changed since then. I posted links. Yep, BBC noted that whole article was missleading and gave reasonable explanation why numbers are like that, still too many dead.

As for some explanation, why numbers are so high, please read following - Israeli soldiers breaking the silence and questioning tactics of IDF:

What Have We Become?

When I served, the Israeli military was the most moral in the world. No more

Those people tell you exactly what has happened before, what is happening right now, and they are not very happy.

There are many more stories like this, and you really have to be in denial to not acknowledge that Israel military has committed war crimes on multiple occasions.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: Involutionist

First off, I blame both sides for the conflict. There is no innocence here.



"When Israel's IDF throws a rocket up into the air they are not targeting Hamas. They do not have the ability to hit Hamas targets to begin with."


I am pretty sure you have seen the videos of Hamas firing rockets from next to a school and next to a hospital.
I am not privy to the IDF's targeting practices, but one would expect that they would target the area the launched missiles were fired from and return fire to that same location. That would be targeting Hamas, no?

Other than the above, and myself not being there to witness anything, I cannot attest to any other targeting practices one way or the other. Obviously IDF has access to Gaza, and hence where missiles are fired from. Just as obviously due to travel restrictions Hamas no longer has access from Gaza to other Israeli locations and hence cannot target civilians except via the unguided missiles.

There was also the article that was published about the UN school that discovered missiles inside. They reported the situation to the "authorities" who collected the missiles.

The statistics, based on the OP's analysis show that women and children are not targeted or the numbers would be higher. If you wish to argue that point, then just use the numbers and debunk the conclusions.


Israel has claimed that innocents are dying because Hamas uses civilians as human shields. If they claim to know that, then by default the targets INCLUDE the civilians. Israel is pleading to the world to excuse them from hitting targets where there are civilians and then claim the civilians are not the target. That would be like saying the cork behind bulls eye wasn't the target.

Where is Charles anyway?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

Your perception and that of others would be palpable in the context of conventional warfare.

This conflict is anything but conventional warfare.

Would you agree that if the IDF was to abide by the moral code that civilian casualties should be avoided at all costs, that there would be no point in retaliating against Hamas?

With all due respect to the innocent lives lost in Gaza, if Hamas doesn't value the lives of Palestinian civilians, why should the IDF let Hamas operate with impunity while they deliberately target Israeli civilians?

Is it Israel's fault that Hamas has deliberately put the civilians in Gaza directly in the crossfire by using human shields?

Under the circumstances, the IDF has already gone out of it's way to warn civilians in advance of their operations, putting their own soldiers at greater risk in the process.

I'm sorry, but if someone was trying to kill my family while hiding behind his own family, I would do whatever I had to do to protect my wife and children, and I wouldn't think twice about it.


edit on 13-8-2014 by Humanity4Ever because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:01 PM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

So you are saying that Hamas should be allowed to fire their rockets with impunity?

Interesting....


I dunno, but if I lived in bumfork, and guys in my neighborhood were firing rockets at BigBadBear City, and they had all the weapons with bells and whistles, I wouldn't hang around anywhere close to their rocket battery, I would take my family and vacate the neighborhood. And !! I would be pissed at the yokels firing the rockets close to my home and family putting them at risk!! IF the palestinians are too stupid to vacate the area where missiles are being fired from, then perhaps a Darwinian award is appropriate.
edit on 13-8-2014 by bbracken677 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 09:40 PM
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So your saying it is citizens own fault they died? Maybe they are too stupid, does that mean they deserve death. I think I understand now why Charles hasn't been back here...



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:13 PM
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originally posted by: MALBOSIA
So your saying it is citizens own fault they died? Maybe they are too stupid, does that mean they deserve death. I think I understand now why Charles hasn't been back here...

Not answering for Charles1952...but, since you've asked so many times...
Charles' is one of the hosts on the Wednesday night live show - Reality Remix' - and, has probably been preparing for (and participating in) this evening's broadcast.
Hope that, at least partially answers your question/s.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:44 PM
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Just to note --

The "Iraq Body Count" project estimates around 110 THOUSAND civilian deaths due to violence prior to 2012.

It is an inconceivable amount of death and tragedy placed upon innocent civilians.

Also consider -- 1.2 MILLION DEATHS -- by automobile world wide -- in the single year 2010.

The world can be a pretty horrible place.

No offense intended, but Israel is such a small piece of existence that it is barely worth paying attention to, in a lot of ways. I know that people here are passionate about this particular topic, but about 100 people leave this world each minute.

www.medindia.net...

After all the talk and arguing here, that statistic above isn't going to be changing. Israel is NOT the big picture.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
I will teach you something so you can understand. I won't hold it against you if you delete your comment when i display your ignorance here.

The difference between you and me is I been on the ground in three different events of genocide, while you lawyer up sitting in you safe home basing your belief on what you read on the internet.



Well.. you see.. if you knew what Genocide actually is and what the word actually means then you would take me VERY seriously. I will teach you something so you can understand. I won't hold it against you if you delete your comment when i display your ignorance here.


What are you going to teach me? Have you been to areas where every male that has not been killed is missing one or two hands? Have you been to an area where EVERY women between 6 and 80 has been ganged raped?


So, yeah, you don't know what genocide is lol.


Does Israel constantly attack all the time or do they counter attack when rockets are launched at them? Are they gang raping the women, are they systematically killing off the males, are they taking all male below the age of 10 and putting them into special schools for reprogramming?

You and I have different view of what this word means, I get it, but I would like to ask an honest question.. How many posts have you authored about the 4 to 5 million killed in Darfur?

I would bet the answer is none... You my friend have an agenda and motive that has nothing to do with genocide.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 12:57 AM
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a reply to: WanDash

Dear Wandash,

Thank you, I appreciate your faith in me.

Tuesday evening I was working on a very large membership spreadsheet for an organization I belong to. It has about 44,000 members, 270 clubs, and six administrative areas. The data was raw and had to be manually entered. I gave up Wednesday morning because of eye strain, and woke up late Wednesday morning and spent a few hours in household chores.

After that I had to select an ATS thread to discuss (and if anyone has any suggestions for threads for future episodes, let me know by U2U), re-read it a couple of times, decide on my approach, and write up some comments. I then bought some replacement headphones with a mic, and checked into the studio at 8:30 p.m.

The show ran from 9 until 11 (all times Central), and is our habit we stayed connected to discuss the show and a half dozen other things. We broke up about 12:15 (about 3/4 of an hour ago).

If my absence from this thread is believed to be an argument against the OP, what poor paucity of arguments they must have. I will be back to the thread later today, but right now, I'm going back to try to finish the spreadsheet. I hope the poster can keep his anxiety over my absence in check.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 05:42 AM
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I remember when I was in competition kick boxing, long enough ago that I care not to think about my age lol

none the less...

I was only knocked out One Time in 23 fights

This guy was way bigger than me and slow, real slow, I hit him god knows how many times

Then he hit me... ONCE and that was my first and last time I was KO'd

What i'm saying is, the argument around the Iron Dome, the accuracy of the rockets, the whole spiel is 100% MOOT, it doesn't matter, if hey are trying to hit you they are trying to hit you and you better god damn not put your guard down or get cocky and not go for knock out blows yourself because a lucky shot is a lucky shot.

If Hamas is digging tunnels under Israel they have a delivery system for a WMD if someone manages to get them one...

No one says that "someone" has to be Hamas that even does it

A crappy inaccurate rocket CAN deliver a canister of bio weapons

When you posses a nuclear reactor a single rocket can be a knockout blow and let us be aware...Israel is smaller than the Fukushima exclusion zone

I don't want to hear responses of ... they can't, can never, won't because... Because if let's say, my son was killed by a rocket, even Not believing in an afterlife I can absolutely conceive of being in a very no F's given mood in regards to exacting my revenge and I'm a human longevity guy, the exact opposite of a Martyr personality by nature and if I role play in my head a bit, put myself in the position of a guy who lost his whole family and believes i'd see them again... well when I factor in the consequences in regards to Syria, Lebanon Western Iraq I think... OOPs, sorry.

And let's not pretend, that there are not powers far greater than Hamas, that might not think doing something that triggers the Samson option or destroys Israel would be a bad outcome... on either side of the coin a "scape goat" for one's ambitions could be very useful and well... The Samson option leaves a lot of un-owned oil and territory available and rids the world of most of Islam and the destruction of Israel opens the doors for a caliphate or some would say ushers in a Great prophet or whatever these guys believe

My point is... If you think there aren't a lot of people who have crazy ideas you'd be wrong, dead wrong. There are 1000 Atheists alone that will pass through this forum this month for whom if they woke up today and read, "Israel Nuked, retaliation devastates Middle East" this would be the happiest day of their lives lol, it's Grey Goose and Lobster kind of night....

Should we be dishonest? If the region was suddenly "finished" tomorrow... I have 50 bucks that says when Obama was done with his sad speech and announces the release of Govt stores of Potassium Iodide, behind closed doors the Champagne opens up and Michelle gets better head that she's ever had in her life....

Israel can't let one thing get through, throw whatever pseudo intellectual argument or opinion you want at this it wont be correct, Israel REALLY can't let one thing get through any more than the USA could have ignored the cold war...



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:43 AM
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a reply to: MALBOSIA

No, I didn't EXACTLY say that, but they are partially responsible. Ultimately it is the responsibility of whoever fires a weapon when a death results. This is obvious..

On the other hand, if you are too stupid to vacate the area where you know that bombs are going to drop or artillery, then you have accepted some measure of responsibility, no?

If you walk up to a pool, and there is a sign that says: Piranha, no swimming. Do you jump in?

No one, that I am aware of, has ever accused the Palestinians of being overly smart.



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