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One Gaza Issue Resolved. Israel Not Targeting Women and Children.

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posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:03 PM
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I propose that this cannot be determined from the numbers you provided. Here is why: If we stated that Israel was targeting innocent civilians in general, or just women and children even, that would not mean they stopped targeting members of Hamas, which are all or mostly male. So to get an accurate picture of the percentage of women CIVILIANS killed, all the Hamas fighters need to be taken out of the equation.

The fact that 27% of casualties are women suggests to me that they very well could be targeted by Israeli forces. If you take out 50% of the casualties as belonging to Hamas, and thus being male, then all of the sudden over half the civilian deaths are women. That suggests to me that they are not attempting to avoid women and children, and would mean that they are indiscriminately targeting all civilians, men, women, and children. But this is speculation based on a hypothetical number of Hamas deaths.

But just from what we know, over a quarter of everyone killed is a woman. That is unacceptable. And another thing is that for an analysis like this to be accurate you would have to break it down even further. The percentage of men and women residents by areas being bombed, rather than in the whole of Gaza. And the problem is not that they Israel is targeting women or children, it is that they are not trying to avoid them.




posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:17 PM
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originally posted by: bbracken677
a reply to: MALBOSIA

IDF rules of engagement. Here are some links that would seem to indicate there are rules of engagement. Granted, these articles range from current to a few years ago. The last is from Human Rights Watch and is quite an interesting read.


IDF soldiers protest

IDF tightens rules of engagement

clarifying rules of engagement

Rules of Engagement


You almost had me excited, then I noticed they were all pertaining to the west bank, except the last one which was from the Infidata. How about Gaza?

It was my fault for having my phone settings the way they are but in the future it would be nice if you could warn people that a link is a direct pdf download link.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: charles1952

Charles, did lose you?

bbracker is cutting your grass.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 10:04 PM
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a reply to: charles1952

thankyou for your reply charles...

i am still of the belief a much more surgical approach is what is needed ..

so i will have to respectfully agree to disagree



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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a reply to: InverseLookingGlass




Israel shells hospitals and schools.
Israel declares a 3 km zone around Gaza that soldiers can destroy anything that moves. They have shot children and non-combatants in this zone numerous times, including a 13 YO girl in the back.

Israel intentionally employs civilian attrition as a strategy against people in a giant fenced concentration camp. They routinely manifest prideful vengeance in the most evil ways.

Avoiding women and children? And you show some prevalence statistics? And that changes the moral composition of the problem to you?

I personally find that repulsive.



You eloquently summed up my initial thoughts after reading the OP. Thank you for that.

Q: How does the Israeli government counter the overwhelming fact that they indiscriminately kill civilians which has entered the awareness of the global community more than any other time in the past?

A: Propaganda that pushes back the goal post. Such as the links in the OP.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 10:43 PM
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originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: Wiseupall

Dear Wiseupall,

Do you agree that the analysis of deaths shows that Israel is not targeting women and children?

A little off-topic, but how can you tell which ones are innocents and which are Hamas soldiers? It seems fair to me that if you're a young male hanging around a rocket launching site, you've lost your innocence.

With respect,
Charles1952


You started this thread with a straw man argument and then attacked the merits of your own straw man argument. Israel is showing reckless disregard for civilian casualties, hitting targets they know to be filled with civilians based on the UN repeatedly telling them the facilities were filled with refugees. Who cares about the age and gender of the victims? An old guy's life isn't worth as much as that of a woman or child?



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 11:08 PM
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Remembered an interview i read with an idf solider years ago about ramallah i believe it was , apparently there was one tv channel that would broadcast about 6 hours a day, every couple of weeks the idf would take control of the place at around 3 o clock, as that was the time most children would have arrived home from school, the channel would at that time be broadcasting childrens tv, the idf would broadcast bestial porn and the like, the solider was quite clear this was unoffical policy as it was explained to him......even if your in your own home with your child and both parents there, you cannot protect your children from us, this has been going on in one form or another since they got off the boats.



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 11:30 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: rigel4
a reply to: charles1952

Your premise is entirely wrong... and if i do say so..... DESPERATE!
If I can just point out that the female children also count as woman
the percentage goes up.



and if you count them as adults, there would be 0% children killed!

this is fun!


Or we could do like Israel and claim they are not even human. Then no one is killed.


and then there wouldn't be a genocide or war!
link?



posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 11:40 PM
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originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: tsingtao

You seem to think this conflict is a war. It is not a war when one side is already a POW.

It's a prison riot and guards are using live bullets.


makes sense to me to use live bullets.

dead bullets don't do much.

maybe the pali's should rethink some of their positions?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:25 AM
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originally posted by: sosobad
This thread just seems like a justification so people can sleep at night knowing they are backing an army that is killing more civilians than enemy combatants. You can look at it this way as well, what is the percentage of IDF soldiers killed by Hamas versus Israeli civilians? The numbers there show that they have killed more of their enemy combatants than civilians, so what does that mean? This thread is just saying, look at those monsters over there but ignore these ones here, sick.


How many Iraq soldiers were killed per US death? I see stupidity in their attacks, well unless their goal is not to win, but to paint Israel as a monster. If that is their goal then Hamas are performing just perfectly by their tactics. One thing to remember is Hamas is a monster too and they use the civilians as pawns...just like the Arab world uses Gaza as a pawn in their motives too.

Ya, it all sucks, but that is the way of that world. One thing that is interesting is how ISIS does not generate near the posts as this does even though they are 10 times worst... Makes one go Hmmm.


edit on 13-8-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:33 AM
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originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: amazing

Dear amazing,

I suppose I have to look at the four kids on the beach story. It strikes me as a little odd that this is being used as an example of Israel's policy.

We can just as easily say that Hamas kills the civilians of Gaza that don't show enough support for them, or that they tell people to get on roof tops knowing they'll be killed, or that they intentionally place rocket launching sites next to schools, hospitals and parks to invite civilian casualties, or that they fake civilian deaths. Actually, we can say that much more easily because Hamas does those things over and over.

I hope someone has some solid information on the attack, because there doesn't seem to much in the press. It's generally accepted to be an Israeli strike resulting in four deaths, but the many eye-witnesses aren't sure about whether the attack was from air or sea, and very few indeed mention that IDF had spotted a building which they identified as a military target up the beach, not far away. (It's tough for me to tell, but I'm guessing a couple of hundred yards.)

Nobody is reporting whether Israel knew they were kids, or why they fired. This is such a unique event that people return to it over and over, saying "See? See? I told you so." We do know that many fewer children are being killed than you would expect, that makes it appear that the beach deaths were an aberration and not a policy.

But I would be very grateful to hear from anyone who has more, solid, information.

With respect,
Charles1952



yes charles,

these poor kids were just playing football in a war zone.
very close to where others were fired upon earlier.

how dare they!
what kind of world do we live in where parents let kids play in an active war zone?
oops, now i did it, here come the "whole of gaza is a war zone" people.

i wonder who actually was responsible for the kids deaths.
leave your kids in the car on a train track and it gets slammed, who's fault is it?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:36 AM
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originally posted by: BelowLowAnnouncement

Just to play devil's advocate (my position is anti-Israel/anti-Hamas/pro-Palestine); can you prove they're not just targetting LESS women and children? You seem like you have all the facts in your certainty.


If Hamas stop right now with their rockets then we would see if they are targeting, wouldn't you say? As long as Hamas shoots rockets and Israel counter attacks the same spot, no matter who dies how can you suggest it is a conscious effort of targeting of women and children?

I think when Israel goes into a ground war and starts to cut off all the heads of the males and enslaves the women population as future wives for each soldier we can then at least suggest they are equal to the Arab extremist in the region.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 12:47 AM
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originally posted by: FyreByrd
a reply to: charles1952

Charles,

Really?

If it makes you feel better, go for it.



I reckon. This is some cold-blooded reasoning mate. Cold, and desensitized. I hardly see how this can be interpreted as a problem 'solved'.
edit on 13/8/2014 by TheAnarchist because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 01:12 AM
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this is just as pointless as pointing the fact that hamas's rocket attacks are not targeted specifically to women and children..

both sides commit warcrime and trying to forgive one side without considering their methods are indicative of your personal bias toward one side.

bottom line is this : both sides dont care about civilian casualties and both sides should be taken to warcrime court because of their reckless behaviour in this conflict. Civilians (both israeli and palestinian) are VICTIM..



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 06:25 AM
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originally posted by: buntalanlucu
bottom line is this : both sides dont care about civilian casualties and both sides should be taken to warcrime court because of their reckless behaviour in this conflict. Civilians (both israeli and palestinian) are VICTIM..


This is core of this topic - and in this case, Palestinians suffered far more then Israelis.

This brings memories of 90s, when not just that they tried to use statistics to manipulate public opinion, Serbians were and still are in denial what has happened in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

For me this denial is equally wrong as denial of Holocaust, denial of Japanese crimes in China in WWII, Turkish denial of genocide on Armenians...

Future investigation into war crimes will shred more light onto what really happened and even if there never will be justice for innocent lives lost it might in future bring world to stop unnecessary destruction and killing.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 07:13 AM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: buntalanlucu
bottom line is this : both sides dont care about civilian casualties and both sides should be taken to warcrime court because of their reckless behaviour in this conflict. Civilians (both israeli and palestinian) are VICTIM..


This is core of this topic - and in this case, Palestinians suffered far more then Israelis.

This brings memories of 90s, when not just that they tried to use statistics to manipulate public opinion, Serbians were and still are in denial what has happened in Croatia, Bosnia and Kosovo.

For me this denial is equally wrong as denial of Holocaust, denial of Japanese crimes in China in WWII, Turkish denial of genocide on Armenians...

Future investigation into war crimes will shred more light onto what really happened and even if there never will be justice for innocent lives lost it might in future bring world to stop unnecessary destruction and killing.


by raw numbers of civilians casualties, it is very clear which side should stop / refrain from continuing their attack , because (however their restrain) they still caused unintended civilian deaths in gaza.

im not pro one side or another , i just want the people who cannot do anything but pray to be spared by errant artilery shells/bombs while on the other hand they are powerless to stop armed men from using their home as rocket launching pads / mortar launching pads..



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: andrewh7

So what you are saying is that Hamas should be allowed to fire their missiles with impunity?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: buntalanlucu

You too seem to be suggesting that Hamas should be allowed to fire missiles with impunity.



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: tsingtao




i wonder who actually was responsible for the kids deaths.
leave your kids in the car on a train track and it gets slammed, who's fault is it?


Really?? You've been on enough of these Gaza threads to know what happened, yet here you are trying to blame their parents for their deaths. They went out to play football on the beach, after all they were just 10yo kids. The Israeli ship hit them, killing one, and the rest tried to run to a nearby hotel where journalists were staying when the Israelis fired again killing another three of them. Your "train track" analogy is possibly the worst I've seen...When are you going to stop making excuses for these barbaric crimes?



posted on Aug, 13 2014 @ 11:03 AM
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So going by the OP, Israel aren't able to target Hamas directly because they don't know who they are, so they simply target MALES aged 20-29....

That seems totally legit...



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