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Putin Defies Western Warning, Will Send "Aid Convoy" To East Ukraine

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posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 05:36 AM
link   

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I only read English. The sources you provided were not in English. I stated as much. I don't know why it's difficult to comprehend.


It doesn`t matter, you asked for sources and I gave them to you...I know Google translate is bad for Dutch, but that doesn`t mean the information or the sources are bad, they are just as legit as if they were in English!

I can't translate so I cant read it. That means I can't verify and see what the source is saying. One line is meaningless, that's why people ask for sources. Either way I found a source, it's English, and I quoted from it. I proved what I thought was going on, was going on. You don't want to touch it because Putin is clearly causing trouble. The Red cross have flat out said that they are willing to be involved, but Putin won't give them basic information they asked for, and Putin is lying when he says they are involved.


Never heard of translate.google.com.../en/ ?

You`re coming with an English source because it suits your needs, the Dutch news sources have different reporting on what`s going on, what do want to know, stuff that suits your anti-Putin view or stuff about really is going on ?

I would say, knock yourself out with reading with what suits needs, but don`t expect that information from me.

Im at work. If I was home I would simply have Chrome auto translate. Can you dismiss what I posted? It seems like you can't. I am sorry you hate the truth, but it's still the truth.

As confirmation from your unbiased source ...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


BOOM. Your position is destroyed. Putin is causing problems, as always.




posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 05:49 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I only read English. The sources you provided were not in English. I stated as much. I don't know why it's difficult to comprehend.


It doesn`t matter, you asked for sources and I gave them to you...I know Google translate is bad for Dutch, but that doesn`t mean the information or the sources are bad, they are just as legit as if they were in English!

I can't translate so I cant read it. That means I can't verify and see what the source is saying. One line is meaningless, that's why people ask for sources. Either way I found a source, it's English, and I quoted from it. I proved what I thought was going on, was going on. You don't want to touch it because Putin is clearly causing trouble. The Red cross have flat out said that they are willing to be involved, but Putin won't give them basic information they asked for, and Putin is lying when he says they are involved.


Never heard of translate.google.com.../en/ ?

You`re coming with an English source because it suits your needs, the Dutch news sources have different reporting on what`s going on, what do want to know, stuff that suits your anti-Putin view or stuff about really is going on ?

I would say, knock yourself out with reading with what suits needs, but don`t expect that information from me.

Im at work. If I was home I would simply have Chrome auto translate. Can you dismiss what I posted? It seems like you can't. I am sorry you hate the truth, but it's still the truth.

As confirmation from your unbiased source ...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


BOOM. Your position is destroyed. Putin is causing problems, as always.




No wonder...

I dismissed it already with the Dutch sources...I`m sorry for you can only read anti-Russian propaganda...you clearly have no interest in what`s going on...you only seem to be interested in anti-Putin news.


edit on 14-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 05:56 AM
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The actions of Putin and his team are absolutely illogical and therefore unexpected for the Western minds. They are unexpected even for the pro-Russian-Ukrainians that may feel at times "abandoned".

For example, Putin (his generals) took Crimea peninsula that was pretty much defensible by the stationed Ukrainian troops, who didn't give a shot. Now the restive eastern provinces are almost taken back by Ukraine forces despite their long land border with Russia and despite the alleged military help flowing thru it.

I will not comment whether Putin is in full control and has the final say in Russia. And whether his actions meet the full agreement of the other political/military factors. Perhaps if it was another president, let say Zyuganov, WW3 would already be a done fact in history and the survivors would cope with the nuclear aftermath.

In anyway, Putin (his team, ruling elite, etc) are grossly miscalculated and misunderstood by the West. Seems to me internet posters have much bigger understanding of what is going on in Russia, than Western strategists who stay in their offices and enjoy hi salaries for doing...what practical? What are their advises to presidents? How would the West react on the next Russian move? How about a real military move, or a nuclear explosion by someone? Still we are in the area of trade sanctions and declarations, and we are already completely lost and messed up. It won't be forever.

We just don't know what the next Russian move will be. Isn't Ukraine just one big trap set up for whatever bigger plans the Russians and their allies might have (far not only Putin!!!) Is WW3 in the agenda, or something else as big but not so destructive.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 05:59 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I only read English. The sources you provided were not in English. I stated as much. I don't know why it's difficult to comprehend.


It doesn`t matter, you asked for sources and I gave them to you...I know Google translate is bad for Dutch, but that doesn`t mean the information or the sources are bad, they are just as legit as if they were in English!

I can't translate so I cant read it. That means I can't verify and see what the source is saying. One line is meaningless, that's why people ask for sources. Either way I found a source, it's English, and I quoted from it. I proved what I thought was going on, was going on. You don't want to touch it because Putin is clearly causing trouble. The Red cross have flat out said that they are willing to be involved, but Putin won't give them basic information they asked for, and Putin is lying when he says they are involved.


Never heard of translate.google.com.../en/ ?

You`re coming with an English source because it suits your needs, the Dutch news sources have different reporting on what`s going on, what do want to know, stuff that suits your anti-Putin view or stuff about really is going on ?

I would say, knock yourself out with reading with what suits needs, but don`t expect that information from me.

Im at work. If I was home I would simply have Chrome auto translate. Can you dismiss what I posted? It seems like you can't. I am sorry you hate the truth, but it's still the truth.

As confirmation from your unbiased source ...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


BOOM. Your position is destroyed. Putin is causing problems, as always.




No wonder...

I dismissed it already with the Dutch sources...I`m sorry for you can only read anti-Russian propaganda...you clearly have no interest in what`s going on...you only seem to be interest in anti-Putin news.


Um no that WAS your dutch source. Your Dutch source is where I got that quote from.

Straight from YOUR source ...
www.telegraaf.nl...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


As I said .. BOOM. Your position destroyed. Putin proven liar. Thank you for that Dutch source.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I only read English. The sources you provided were not in English. I stated as much. I don't know why it's difficult to comprehend.


It doesn`t matter, you asked for sources and I gave them to you...I know Google translate is bad for Dutch, but that doesn`t mean the information or the sources are bad, they are just as legit as if they were in English!

I can't translate so I cant read it. That means I can't verify and see what the source is saying. One line is meaningless, that's why people ask for sources. Either way I found a source, it's English, and I quoted from it. I proved what I thought was going on, was going on. You don't want to touch it because Putin is clearly causing trouble. The Red cross have flat out said that they are willing to be involved, but Putin won't give them basic information they asked for, and Putin is lying when he says they are involved.


Never heard of translate.google.com.../en/ ?

You`re coming with an English source because it suits your needs, the Dutch news sources have different reporting on what`s going on, what do want to know, stuff that suits your anti-Putin view or stuff about really is going on ?

I would say, knock yourself out with reading with what suits needs, but don`t expect that information from me.

Im at work. If I was home I would simply have Chrome auto translate. Can you dismiss what I posted? It seems like you can't. I am sorry you hate the truth, but it's still the truth.

As confirmation from your unbiased source ...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


BOOM. Your position is destroyed. Putin is causing problems, as always.




No wonder...

I dismissed it already with the Dutch sources...I`m sorry for you can only read anti-Russian propaganda...you clearly have no interest in what`s going on...you only seem to be interest in anti-Putin news.


Um no that WAS your dutch source. Your Dutch source is where I got that quote from.

Straight from YOUR source ...
www.telegraaf.nl...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


As I said .. BOOM. Your position destroyed. Putin proven liar. Thank you for that Dutch source.


It only says "The Red Cross Wednesday still had not received enough details of the convoy, such as the exact content and route." (read it carefully, I translated it a bit better)

But they already had an agreement to hand the stuff over to Kiev and Kiev going to transport it to Eastern-Ukraine !

And after that they had an agreement to switch license-plates to Ukrainian ones, but Kiev switched again...

Read this thread please before going to ask for proof again.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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a reply to: Bassago


I'll not argue the point with you anymore other than to say you suggested the civilians flee through the "humanitarian" corridors allowed by the Ukraine army and militias. I showed you that that was now extremely dangerous and that the Ukraine forces were rocket attacking civilians and murdering them in the streets and their homes.


If Ukrainian troops are attacking civilians with rockets and murdering them in their homes, it sounds like staying in the rebel strongholds is dangerous. Why not take the risk of fleeing through the humanitarian corridors? Have they been brainwashed by rebel propaganda? If so, it is the rebels who are committing a war crime by preventing them from seeking refuge.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:28 AM
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Ukraine crisis: 'Shelling hits' rebel-held Donetsk.

Breaking news now.

www.bbc.co.uk...

I think the Ukraine is right in asking international monitors to make sure the Russians are not arming the rebals.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:29 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That article makes clear that Ukraine has wanted the aid to be distributed by a neutral party from the beginning. Russia does not seem to be meeting those original conditions. Putin may be trying to force Ukraine to attack a Russian military convoy, so that he can accuse them of attacking a "humanitarian effort."



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:38 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That article makes clear that Ukraine has wanted the aid to be distributed by a neutral party from the beginning. Russia does not seem to be meeting those original conditions. Putin may be trying to force Ukraine to attack a Russian military convoy, so that he can accuse them of attacking a "humanitarian effort."



Kiev has given that impression at some point, but backs off just as easily. So it seems Kiev is taunting Russia...

But it could be easily be from both sides (also lots of conflicting reports), but the official statements from Kiev at least show they are in the game, but Russia maybe doing the same...

So you could be right about Russia is setting a trap.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:56 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


So you could be right about Russia is setting a trap.


Please remember this if push comes to shove; Putin may want this convoy to be attacked so he can justify sending in troops.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 06:58 AM
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For everyone now really scratching his head, here`s a recap :

- Kiev said NO to Convoy first

- Then they said YES to it, but the goods had to be put on Ukrainian trucks at the border

- After that they AGREED to have license plates swapped, and checked out by the Red Cross

- Yesterday they said a big fat NO again

- BBC now claims, Kiev says again "Needs to be inspected but can go IN"

We can conclude at least one thing, Kiev is full of BS, but yeah, what`s new.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:05 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


We can conclude at least one thing, Kiev is full of BS, but yeah, what`s new.


Wrong. Ukraine has been consistent in its terms; Russia claims to agree to the terms, but does not take steps to fulfill them. What's new?



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:11 AM
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originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


We can conclude at least one thing, Kiev is full of BS, but yeah, what`s new.


Wrong. Ukraine has been consistent in its terms; Russia claims to agree to the terms, but does not take steps to fulfill them. What's new?



It`s all based on official Kiev statements, maybe try to read up on how it has really happened before writing "wrong."
edit on 14-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:18 AM
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originally posted by: boymonkey74
Ukraine crisis: 'Shelling hits' rebel-held Donetsk.

Breaking news now.

www.bbc.co.uk...

I think the Ukraine is right in asking international monitors to make sure the Russians are not arming the rebals.


Just heard this on BBC too. Moscows response should be interesting.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:28 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien


It`s all based on official Kiev statements, maybe try to read up on how it has really happened before writing "wrong."


Maybe try reading what the Red Cross says:


The ICRC is seeking more information about the 280-vehicle aid convoy that left Moscow for eastern Ukraine on 12 August 2014. Laurent Corbaz, ICRC Head of Operations for Europe and Central Asia, says the organization still needed security guarantees and direct contact with all parties, plus details of the convoy's cargo and its size.


www.icrc.org...

Maybe try reading what the official Russian press agency says:


“In contact with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the Ukrainian government, representatives from other international organizations, including the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), we worked out a scheme that was finally agreed yesterday,” Lavrov said, adding that Russia had agreed with all of Ukraine’s suggestions on all aspects of the operation, including a new route mapped by the Kiev authorities despite the fact that it would take a lengthy detour.


en.itar-tass.com...

So is Russia communicating with the Red Cross or not? Have they agreed to Kyiv's terms or not?



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:38 AM
link   

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


It`s all based on official Kiev statements, maybe try to read up on how it has really happened before writing "wrong."


Maybe try reading what the Red Cross says:


The ICRC is seeking more information about the 280-vehicle aid convoy that left Moscow for eastern Ukraine on 12 August 2014. Laurent Corbaz, ICRC Head of Operations for Europe and Central Asia, says the organization still needed security guarantees and direct contact with all parties, plus details of the convoy's cargo and its size.


www.icrc.org...

Maybe try reading what the official Russian press agency says:


“In contact with the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), the Ukrainian government, representatives from other international organizations, including the United Nations and the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), we worked out a scheme that was finally agreed yesterday,” Lavrov said, adding that Russia had agreed with all of Ukraine’s suggestions on all aspects of the operation, including a new route mapped by the Kiev authorities despite the fact that it would take a lengthy detour.


en.itar-tass.com...

So is Russia communicating with the Red Cross or not? Have they agreed to Kyiv's terms or not?



Like I said, read up first, you`re only coming up with a small part of what has been going on...what you come up with is indeed what has been agreed earlier, but has been blown already again.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:40 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

I only read English. The sources you provided were not in English. I stated as much. I don't know why it's difficult to comprehend.


It doesn`t matter, you asked for sources and I gave them to you...I know Google translate is bad for Dutch, but that doesn`t mean the information or the sources are bad, they are just as legit as if they were in English!

I can't translate so I cant read it. That means I can't verify and see what the source is saying. One line is meaningless, that's why people ask for sources. Either way I found a source, it's English, and I quoted from it. I proved what I thought was going on, was going on. You don't want to touch it because Putin is clearly causing trouble. The Red cross have flat out said that they are willing to be involved, but Putin won't give them basic information they asked for, and Putin is lying when he says they are involved.


Never heard of translate.google.com.../en/ ?

You`re coming with an English source because it suits your needs, the Dutch news sources have different reporting on what`s going on, what do want to know, stuff that suits your anti-Putin view or stuff about really is going on ?

I would say, knock yourself out with reading with what suits needs, but don`t expect that information from me.

Im at work. If I was home I would simply have Chrome auto translate. Can you dismiss what I posted? It seems like you can't. I am sorry you hate the truth, but it's still the truth.

As confirmation from your unbiased source ...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


BOOM. Your position is destroyed. Putin is causing problems, as always.




No wonder...

I dismissed it already with the Dutch sources...I`m sorry for you can only read anti-Russian propaganda...you clearly have no interest in what`s going on...you only seem to be interest in anti-Putin news.


Um no that WAS your dutch source. Your Dutch source is where I got that quote from.

Straight from YOUR source ...
www.telegraaf.nl...

The Red Cross Wednesday had still not received the details of the convoy to hear, such as the exact content and route.


As I said .. BOOM. Your position destroyed. Putin proven liar. Thank you for that Dutch source.


It only says "The Red Cross Wednesday still had not received enough details of the convoy, such as the exact content and route." (read it carefully, I translated it a bit better)

But they already had an agreement to hand the stuff over to Kiev and Kiev going to transport it to Eastern-Ukraine !

And after that they had an agreement to switch license-plates to Ukrainian ones, but Kiev switched again...

Read this thread please before going to ask for proof again.

Ummm no. As I said, The Red Cross asked for specific details. Putin did not supply the red Cross with those details. the Red Cross is REFUSING to take part without those details. Your source, which is true and unbiased, confirmed The Red Cross does NOT have those details. Thank you for proving Putin is a liar and causing problems.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien

That article makes clear that Ukraine has wanted the aid to be distributed by a neutral party from the beginning. Russia does not seem to be meeting those original conditions. Putin may be trying to force Ukraine to attack a Russian military convoy, so that he can accuse them of attacking a "humanitarian effort."



Kiev has given that impression at some point, but backs off just as easily. So it seems Kiev is taunting Russia...

But it could be easily be from both sides (also lots of conflicting reports), but the official statements from Kiev at least show they are in the game, but Russia maybe doing the same...

So you could be right about Russia is setting a trap.

No. Kiev said from the start let the Red Cross go in with no Russian Military. Putin said ok. Then Putin refused to let the Red Cross take over and is sending the convoy himself.

YOUR source proved it.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:44 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
For everyone now really scratching his head, here`s a recap :

- Kiev said NO to Convoy first

They said no to a RUSSIAN Convoy.


- Then they said YES to it, but the goods had to be put on Ukrainian trucks at the border

They said yes as long as the goods were inspected and out of Russian hands at the border.


- After that they AGREED to have license plates swapped, and checked out by the Red Cross

They said yes as long as the goods were inspected and out of Russian hands at the border. Russia agreed that only the Red Cross should do this.


- Yesterday they said a big fat NO again

They said yes as long as the goods were inspected and out of Russian hands at the border. Russia said NO, we are taking it ourselves, the Red Cross has confirmed as of now they are not involved at all.
- BBC now claims, Kiev says again "Needs to be inspected but can go IN"


We can conclude at least one thing, Kiev is full of BS, but yeah, what`s new.

Make that Putin, who has gone back on his word multiple times, and Kiev has been 100% consistent.



posted on Aug, 14 2014 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: BornAgainAlien


We can conclude at least one thing, Kiev is full of BS, but yeah, what`s new.


Wrong. Ukraine has been consistent in its terms; Russia claims to agree to the terms, but does not take steps to fulfill them. What's new?



It`s all based on official Kiev statements, maybe try to read up on how it has really happened before writing "wrong."

No, that is based on YOUR Dutch sources and official Red Cross statements.



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