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posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 04:10 PM
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How the Gun Industry Armed Osama bin Laden, Other Foreign and Domestic Terrorists, and Common Criminals with 50 Caliber Sniper Rifles

The 50 caliber sniper rifles proliferating on today's civilian market are coveted by Osama bin Laden's Al Qaeda and other international terrorist organizations because the cartridge they fire offers a devastating combination of range and power. This section explains why the .50BMG round can slice through body armor like a knife through warm butter, knock down hovering helicopters, rip up armored limousines, destroy radar dishes, and ignite bulk fuel tanksall at the length of 10 football fields.

This is a matter where size really matters...

The Violence Policy Center is a national non-profit educational foundation that conducts research on violence in America and works to develop violence-reduction policies and proposals. The Center examines the role of firearms in America, conducts research on firearms violence, and explores new ways to decrease firearm-related death and injury

www.vpc.org...

The Sniper rifle is truly a military weapon,fielded by armies in conflicts around the globe.U.S. armed forces,for example,used 50 cal.sniper rifles during the 91' Gulf War to destroy Iraqi light armored vehicls,and artillery pieces at very long ranges....
For at least the last two decades,the firearms industry in the U.S. has repeatedly introduced progressively more lethal weapons in the civilian marketplace.This response to stagnation in gun sales has been apparent as each new deadly innovation has become more widely available....




posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:13 PM
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So if these terrorist have been given these weapons can you post info on any terrorist actions that have been attributed to this firearm.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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Not to mention, now that the weapon ban has ended, it will be easier for everyone to get hands on high capacity magazines for semi and automatic weapons. Considering the situation, those who are for firearms better take advantage of the times while they last. Because those who buy them are going to be us or them, and trust me no one wants "them" to. It is bad enough the M60 machinegun is being sold as surplus, such a weapon in the hands of terrorists would be bad, useing our old equipment against us.

It really is a wonder, Hillary Clinton didn't use the looming threat of terror in her "crusade against guns". Too late now, like it is always...



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by weirdo
So if these terrorist have been given these weapons can you post info on any terrorist actions that have been attributed to this firearm.


Here is an interesting link that might answer some of your questions. It gives possibly terrorist scenarios in which 50 caliber ammunition can be a severe civil threat. But we already know that any weapon can be a severe civil thread. Nothing really new here, but check it out if you absolutely have nothing else to do with your time.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by weirdo
So if these terrorist have been given these weapons can you post info on any terrorist actions that have been attributed to this firearm.


Any post about info of terrorists attributed to this firearm....hell I can post you info about terrorists buying Russian nuclear subs..the question is ..which terrorist you'd like to hear first about...
and to elaborate alittle on the nuclear subs,they have been supplied by the Russian Red Army through the Mobb..



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:35 PM
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Search' Victor Bout'....

Read this for some 'Info'.....


[edit on 4-12-2004 by Horus_Re]

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Horus_Re]



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 06:39 PM
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This is about the only reference a quick search came up with in regards to;
Terrorist and Criminal Use of .50 Caliber Sniper Rifles

Good luck getting the actual report from the BATF, everyone knows how they are. Besides, they probably conducted the study CIA style. By just giving the stuff to them and see what they do.

Personally I'm not worried, do a search on body armor here on ATS, you will see what I mean. (I don't think the guy tested his home made armor against the .50, but the explosives were good enough of a test for me)



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 08:08 PM
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Yeah lets ban a weapon that has never been used to kill anyone in the US. A 50.cal rifle can cost $7,000+ without a scope criminals love to spend that kind of money on guns. You are about a million times more likely to be killed by a .22 handgun.

Terrorist can buy many Russian made sniper rifles such as a SVD for a fraction of the price that will slice through any body armour.



posted on Dec, 4 2004 @ 08:26 PM
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Originally posted by ADVISOR
This is about the only reference a quick search came up with in regards to;
Terrorist and Criminal Use of .50 Caliber Sniper Rifles



from the Brady Campaign they are a unbaised group with no agenda.

About the high capacity mags they were never hard to get even during the ban. There has not even been a price drop since the ban expired. We can buy bayonet lugs now though, look for a increase in drive by bayonetings in the near future.


[edit on 4-12-2004 by ShadowXIX]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 01:32 AM
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I might be missing the point but didn`t some guys get arrested and prosecuted for killing people using a snipers rifle a while ago.I no a powerful rifle can pose a threat but come on you guys got kids going to high schools and randomly shooting inocents dead and all you can do is focus on the possibility some terrorist might buy one of these and use it.Maybe time Americans looked at the threat already in your country than worring about a few mad muslims.

And as for the nuclear sub



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Yeah lets ban a weapon that has never been used to kill anyone in the US. A 50.cal rifle can cost $7,000+ without a scope criminals love to spend that kind of money on guns. You are about a million times more likely to be killed by a .22 handgun.

Terrorist can buy many Russian made sniper rifles such as a SVD for a fraction of the price that will slice through any body armour.


Boy ....where are you coming from ????ONLY 7000 ...

as i said earlyer nuclear russian subs are sold on the black market to terrorist....your talking about a rifle..oh yeh!!! oops ....It has No scope...


I'm gonna leave the site for now but when I come back I'll show you some links..,?.....or maybe I just make a drawing for you...



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 09:55 AM
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The point is , that the .50 is clearly a gun for millitary use, domestic quarrels can be settled with a cheap fridaynight gun and one doesn't need an armourpiercing-incendiary-combo round for deerhunting, so should guns like this come into the hands of civilians?

I know freedom of choice is highly regarded in the usa, but what if terorists made it their choice and start an army of snipers?

Will we still say "guns don't kill people, people kill people" or: ".50 kills people" ????



[edit on 5-12-2004 by Countermeasures]



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 10:08 AM
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as i said earlyer nuclear russian subs are sold on the black market to terrorist....your talking about a rifle..oh yeh!!! oops ....It has No scope...


I'm gonna leave the site for now but when I come back I'll show you some links..,?.....or maybe I just make a drawing for you...



And because somebody has read on the net Terrorist are riding around in subs


1.Who`s maintaining them
2.Who`s training the crew.
3.Where are they buying equipment to run them.
4.Where are they docking them.
5.Where are they getting the money to maintain them.As a nuke sub cost around 19,000,000 a year to run.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by Horus_Re
]

Boy ....where are you coming from ????ONLY 7000 ...

as i said earlyer nuclear russian subs are sold on the black market to terrorist....your talking about a rifle..oh yeh!!! oops ....It has No scope...


I'm gonna leave the site for now but when I come back I'll show you some links..,?.....or maybe I just make a drawing for you...


Im not talking about terrorist Im talking about criminals they dont tend to spend thousands of dollars on a rifle. Wow I didnt know terrorist had that kind of money thanks for clearing that up
give me a break

Like I said before though terrorist can by Russia made sniper rifles much easier and cheaper some are even fire a more powerful then the .50 cal.

so let me draw you a picture you might understand

Heres a more powerful gun with a 20mm barrel thats cheaper made right in their own backyard the Mechem NTW-20

"NTW-20 offers significantly more terminal effectiveness than any .50BMG rifle / round combination. 20 mm version could be most effective against targets like parked aircrafts and helicopters, command and communications equipment, radar cabins, fuel dumps, unarmored cars"


world.guns.ru...



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 01:59 PM
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First off there is not much that can stop a .50 caliber bullet from a 3,000 dollar sniper rifle (add at least $800 for a 1 mile range scope, now in night vision for only lots haha). And each round costs almost 2.50 usd. Hell a .50 caliber rifle will punch a hole through anyplace on a bradley fighting vehicle except the front and parts of the cupola, but there are mitigating facts.
1. for the price of the rifle minus scope and no ammo you can illegally buy 5 full auto ak-47's with 10 30 round mags of armor piercing each for less.
2. Yes in theory a .50 bmg rifle is pinpoint accurate to 1 mile plus but you combine the cost of just supplying the basic ammunition, gun, and scope to where you are capable of being accurate (plus the punishment those mutha's deal out every time you fire them! that is a big freaking round after all... I've fired one I won't do it again)
3. As far as being a military rifle you are absolute correct, as a matter of a fact it isn't even a common military weapon Here is why: Even the small .50 rifles carry enormous price tags as well as enormous weight (50 rounds rifle and scope alone would be well over 50 lbs. in most cases). Second they are not sniper rifles they are anti-materiel/psy-ops rifles used by special forces troops, their sole purpose is to cause what is normally considered token damage i.e a radar aerial or other equipment in a rear area of the enemy is hit and then the sniper team moves out accomplishing their mission of scaring the crap out of the opposing sides leadership.
4. Even a good rifle with all of the bells and whistles is not what you would call a subtle weapon they are amazingly loud and all of them put out a tongue of flame at least a couple feet long, which is why noone commits murder with them.
5. Body armor 101: Ok class here is how it works in the real world your average police officer and/or soldier wears level 3 a or l. 3 kevlar vests with a trauma plate system. You can realistically expect this to stop 99% of all handgun shots even at point blank range, with the exception of specialized rounds and .22 cal and other small bullets. You cannot expect however body armor to:
a: stop a rifle bullet: Even with the steel plates some rangers wear it will not stop a 7.62, 5.56mm, or .223 cal bullet or any other true rifle cartridge.
b: Assuming you survive the first shot even with a pistol because of a vest, YOU ARE STILL MOST LIKELLY GRIEVOUSLY INJURED.
6. I am very disappointed to see someone in ATS mouthing the Brady/UN party line of guns are bad. Of course they are bad! Are you stupid noone who is slightly sane wants to kill someone, but there is only one reason why governments want to take weapons from civilians and it isn't good. PERIOD. THERE IS NO ACCEPTABLE REASON TO PROHIBIT CIVILIAN GUN OWNERSHIP.
7. If you had done your research you would understand that noone kills people with $4,000 weapons, they are rare and easilly traceable. You would also understand that the brady bill and others like it were designed to erode the 2nd ammendment slowly and it has worked



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 03:43 PM
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OK..Marge & shadow XX ...I did say I would show you & proove you wrong..Well this just happens to be a long post..I've spent a couple of hours typing and researching this topic..and tell you what ....I FOUND MORE than I hopped to...so..I will post it now...I'm not quite sure if it should go under conspiracies or secret societies...but a promise is a promise..Although I already noticed that marge already answered one of your posts about NO one in the U.S. ever died from a sniper gun...come on,..now shadow..you should have known about that case better than i
..



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 03:58 PM
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Wierdo mentioned a powerful sniper rifle used in a case but a 30-06 is a powerful sniper rifle. I would be interested to learn more about a case were a 50 cal was used to kill some one though. I know that guy that went crazy with the armoured bull dozer awhile back had a 50 cal with him but he didnt kill anyone.

I just thinks its a slippery slope to ban a gun based on the round it uses. If they ban the 50 cal because its a scary round why not ban the 30-06 or .308 both of which are powerful rounds that will cut through both sides of a cops bullet proof vest.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Wierdo mentioned a powerful sniper rifle used in a case but a 30-06 is a powerful sniper rifle. I would be interested to learn more about a case were a 50 cal was used to kill some one though. I know that guy that went crazy with the armoured bull dozer awhile back had a 50 cal with him but he didnt kill anyone.

I just thinks its a slippery slope to ban a gun based on the round it uses. If they ban the 50 cal because its a scary round why not ban the 30-06 or .308 both of which are powerful rounds that will cut through both sides of a cops bullet proof vest.



Hold on a minute..I NEVER said it had to be banned..I love weapons myself.I love the engineering involved in creating such accurate fire power..did I say that they had to be banned??



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 04:37 PM
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Im not saying you said we should ban it ,but many people are championing just that cause. People like the "good folks" at the brady campaign


In the state I live in CT they have already banned one of the .50 cal models out right the Barrett Model 82A1. Banning a semi auto rifle that only carries ten rounds a first in my state. This happened because of the round it uses is scary. I suspect other models are soon to follow. I have more banned guns in my state then during the AWB.

I really hate to see second amendment rights erode around me little by little. They even went so far to ban guns that are produced in state
The colt AR-15




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