Israel vs Hamas = Good vs Evil

a reply to: jdoors

Yes, who needs the color grey when black and white are so much more visually striking? I applaud you for this exemplary thread which will surely only serve to heighten the level of productive discourse on this site. Well done!

I'll play. Israel are leeches who without the US and Britain would've failed quickly. The US taxpayer keeps these leeches afloat.

Israel is the very definition of the evil that the world was warned about through the ages. Zionists are enemies if humanity. They have no future.

the logic of 2014:

good is bad
evil is good
up is down
right is left
black is white
stinky smells good

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DarknStormy


Yes but they did flee and they did get their azz kicked even if they did demonstrate some fair military ability. Even Rabin said they were brave fighters. In the end big deal.

How is dropping bombs on Haifa fleeing? Attacking Israeli Warships is not fleeing and attacking the Israeli Tanks is not fleeing. The only one's that did flee were the Israeli's when they had to tow their piles of metal back to Israel.

Wow - that's an impressively simplistic OP.

I don't really have a 'side' in all this as both groups need reigning back significantly, but it's very rich to point to Hamas' guerilla tactics as evidence of 'evil'. They have literally no choice but to fight in this way against a massively superior, super-power backed, funded and armed opposition who have been systematically reducing their territory for decades.

Or should they just line up in a handy 'kill zone' for vaporisation by American provided Israeli rockets?

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow

originally posted by: jdoors
The United States helps Israel to pay for the Iron Dome. With or without aid from America, the Iron Dome will keep running.

That's funny because they just asked for more money from us for Iron Dome.

You do realize that Iron Dome is a joke right? After Israel pretty much lost the last conflict they brought out Iron Dome so it looked something came of it for them.

More disinfo. Israel's last conflict was with Hezbollah. Hezbollah hasn't been able to walk right since. Still cant get its head removed from orifice it was shoved up in their so hard. They ended up fleeing like little babies for the safety for Syria.

No, I am talking about their last conflict with Gaza, Operation Cast Lead.

Not disinfo, you just "don' read too good."

originally posted by: DarknStormy

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: DarknStormy


Yes but they did flee and they did get their azz kicked even if they did demonstrate some fair military ability. Even Rabin said they were brave fighters. In the end big deal.

How is dropping bombs on Haifa fleeing? Attacking Israeli Warships is not fleeing and attacking the Israeli Tanks is not fleeing. The only one's that did flee were the Israeli's when they had to tow their piles of metal back to Israel.

The irony is that, if he'd actually read, I was discussing the last operation in Gaza (op cast lead) and it wasn't disinfo he just didn't know what he was talking about.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: jdoors
I just wanted to state my position on the Israel / Hamas conflict in Gaza. I stand with Israel.Hamas builds tunnels in order to kill innocent civilians.Hamas fires rockets from Gaza into Israel, in order to kill innocent civilians. Israel has to spend millions of dollars every year on the Iron Dome . Because of the consent never ending attacks by Hamas. The only thing stopping the Palestinians from living in peace and prosperity is Hamas.

www.mi7.co...

If you say that trying to kill civilians and killing civilians is what makes Hamas evil then what do you think Israel is seeing how they have killed more civilians than Hamas could ever dream of killing. So if Hamas is evil then Israel must be purely Satanic.

Hamas loves it! So they have to eat a few of their young, their own. They have their eye set for bigger things like bursting into Jewish schools with weapons blazing! But they wont push big until they get the world so hating Israle for defending itself that no one will care. You can see it in threads like this, the slow and steady drip, drip of anti Jew gripe, mudding of waters of Hamas responsibility for militarizing the entirety of Gaza.

If this is true then why haven't they done it? According to Israel Hamas's tunnels were already going into Israel so why hasn't Hamas gone into one of these schools or farming communities and waste everyone? The only person they have grabbed from these tunnels according to Israel was a member of the IDF. It's becoming more and more apparent that Israel is feeding the world a line of BS when it comes to Hamas.

Exactly.. two conflicts, one pre iron dome and one post iron dome. Both have the same amount of casualties and in both cases they were caused by rockets. It's pretty clear Israel is the only one targeting civilians. Actions speak louder than Israel's words.

Also, I can pull up plenty of articles on radical Israeli/Jewish terrorists groups and their attacks on mosques and the like.

Eden Natan-Zada killed four Israeli Arab civilians on August 4, 2005. His actions were criticized by then prime minister Ariel Sharon, as "a reprehensible act by a bloodthirsty Jewish terrorist", and author Ami Pedhzer describes his motivations as religious.[2]:134[32] Baruch Goldstein an American-born Israeli physician, perpetrated the 1994 Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, in which he shot and killed 29 Muslim worshipers inside the Ibrahimi Mosque (within the Cave of the Patriarchs), and wounded another 125 victims.[33] Goldstein was killed by the survivors.[34] Goldstein was a supporter of Kach, an Israeli political party founded by Rabbi Meir Kahane that advocated the expulsion of Arabs from Israel and the Palestinian Territories. In the aftermath of the Goldstein attack and Kach statements praising it, Kach was outlawed in Israel.[35]

originally posted by: jdoors
I just wanted to state my position on the Israel / Hamas conflict in Gaza. I stand with Israel.Hamas builds tunnels in order to kill innocent civilians.Hamas fires rockets from Gaza into Israel, in order to kill innocent civilians. Israel has to spend millions of dollars every year on the Iron Dome . Because of the consent never ending attacks by Hamas. The only thing stopping the Palestinians from living in peace and prosperity is Hamas.

www.mi7.co...

First of all, America Funded the Iron Dome, don't get it twisted.
Source

Secondly, Israel is just as much to blame as anyone else. Two people beating each other with sticks, whoever is the winner, is just as stupid as the other guy.

Israel drops dud bombs on houses as a method of warning innocent people their entire neighborhood is about to be leveled.

Gaza bombs Israel during cease-fires.

They're both controlled by total idiots and you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting either side of this ugly mess. Where's the fire-breathing emote when you need it?

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: Logarock

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: jdoors
I just wanted to state my position on the Israel / Hamas conflict in Gaza. I stand with Israel.Hamas builds tunnels in order to kill innocent civilians.Hamas fires rockets from Gaza into Israel, in order to kill innocent civilians. Israel has to spend millions of dollars every year on the Iron Dome . Because of the consent never ending attacks by Hamas. The only thing stopping the Palestinians from living in peace and prosperity is Hamas.

www.mi7.co...

If you say that trying to kill civilians and killing civilians is what makes Hamas evil then what do you think Israel is seeing how they have killed more civilians than Hamas could ever dream of killing. So if Hamas is evil then Israel must be purely Satanic.

Hamas loves it! So they have to eat a few of their young, their own. They have their eye set for bigger things like bursting into Jewish schools with weapons blazing! But they wont push big until they get the world so hating Israle for defending itself that no one will care. You can see it in threads like this, the slow and steady drip, drip of anti Jew gripe, mudding of waters of Hamas responsibility for militarizing the entirety of Gaza.

If this is true then why haven't they done it? According to Israel Hamas's tunnels were already going into Israel so why hasn't Hamas gone into one of these schools or farming communities and waste everyone? The only person they have grabbed from these tunnels according to Israel was a member of the IDF. It's becoming more and more apparent that Israel is feeding the world a line of BS when it comes to Hamas.

They just do enough for now. They would have zero pity from anyone. And just look at the sort of turnaround they get from killing just a few hitchhikers. But when the time is right, if that time ever comes, they will act like ISIS, driving infidels to the tops of hills.

What hitchhikers the three kids? There is no proof that Hamas did that Israel even said they didn't do it. Now you are just making stuff up to support Israel.

a reply to: jdoors

And where did Hamas come from? Mossad. Please refer to wikileaks cables on the matter if you need confirmation.
Wikileaks also confirmed over 1500 instances of the IMF using Palestinians as human shields.
There is also documented evidence of Bin laden with his Mossad trainers before he "became" Osama Bin Laden.
Watch the documentary "the gatekeepers" and see what previous Israeli secret agents, 6 of them in fact have to say.

Factalestine was a nation BEFORE zionist occupation
Fact:Orthodox Jews are against the zionist occupation and clearly state over and over again that Jews have no right to the land, occupied or not!
Fact:The current state of Israel breeds an extreme form of racism (See David Sheen's work)
Fact: public racist rallies are held in the streets of Israel with people holding Nazi slogan's up. (again, see David Sheen's work)
Fact:Any Anti-occupation rallies are banned, if the rallies go ahead, pro- Israeli supporters use violence, spit on them ect.

I have many friends that live in Israel and have seen what is going on in that Country. I have also seen just as much footage from Gaza and there is extremism there too. Where does it come from?

ZIONISM, which is extreme nationalism.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Israel....favors collective punishment tactics.

Collective punishment is against international law. Israel does this to the Palestinians even when there is no war going on. This is why the blockade and the virtual prison Israel has built around Gaza needs to come to an end. Because it is illegal.

A PICTURE CAN SAY 1000 WORD'S

Anybody who chooses death over life...well good for them. Neither Jew nor Muslim Nor what the feck ever.

I hope whatever god is yours rips your fecking head off.

a reply to: EA006

I've noticed this too in other threads. Anything pro-Israel, like this thread, has tons of stars but few comments in support. The star and flag system is ridiculous because it can be faked so easy

a reply to: jdoors

Yeah, you're right in the sense that Israel HAS to do something to protect itself. It is currently in the most worrying position of it's modern history - considering a blood hungry, extremely anti-Jewish full blown ARMY is building numbers in all it's neighbouring countries.

But here's the thing - Israel is KILLING at least 100-1 civilians per 'Hamas Militant'. It's a facade. It's a full out genocide and the IDF have effectively been allowed to run rampant.

The IDF, despite possibly being the world's best trained ground force, is TERRIFIED of Hamas. I assure you that. Every soldier is scared of that which embraces death. The Israelis may be a spiritual nation, but their soldiers do not and will not blow themselves up for an ultimate cause.

That is the difference between all official government militaries and ISIS/Hamas etc. And that's why they target civilians, to anger Hamas and the rest, and to play the same game that the 'terrorists' are playing.

But if there's one thing history has shown us, it's that when a group needs to rebel against a force it cannot match in terms of military strength - it turns to damaging the civilians and infrastructure of the target system.

This will never change, for our bodies are corrupt, but we can consciously suppress it. It's a natural by-product of dominance and submission - the states that consume our human existence. In that sense, Hamas was bound to exist by choices made in the long past.

The worst thing you can do, in my opinion, is sit there and try to objectively justify these actions in terms of one side only.

The point is, they are both wrong, and the history is complex, but the killing is DISPROPORTIONATE.

If Israel launched a ground offensive that strictly targeted Hamas installations and bases then this would be a different matter. And don't give me that BS that 'they can't tell where Hamas or who Hamas are' etc.

This is ISRAEL. Backed by the USA. They have access to satellites and drones. You're telling me they don't know where the Hamas rocket fire is coming from? You're telling me they can't scramble a jet fighter to that location within moments to neutralise the entire area?

C'mon mate. It's almost like these attacks by Hamas have been allowed to happen to an extent, providing the perfect reason to launch a full-out offensive on Gaza.

I can't for the life of me understand why amateur photographers can pinpoint Hamas rocket fire and yet an advanced military like Israel doesn't realise tunnels are being built beneath it and can't deduce the launch location of a rocket less than 10 miles away lol.

I wouldn't be surprised either way. Standard war tactics. Civilians are just gambling chips or pawns, easily expendable and replaceable. Likewise with infrastructure. It's nothing less than demonic really.

War once had an element of humanity, you know...

The whole things too complex however to reduce to sweeping statements such as 'I think Israel is right'. Remember, the main losers of war are the civilians. Justifying either side justifies the mass slaughtering of civilians.

We need to eradicate this animalistic desire for dominance and submission from the human psyche. I know many bathe in it and truly believe that's the intention of the human, and maybe so, but I'll burn in Hell gladly before I submit to 'this' being how it's meant to be.

If we're not killing eachother then we're sat watching others kill eachother while arguing over who should be killing who! What hope is there left?

Terrorism would have never existed if the desire to build empires never existed. Do well to remember that. Also, do well to remember by virtue of the universe, there is NO PEACE without OPPRESSION.

So, who ultimately decides who gets to rule and who gets to be oppressed? The sword. Don't choose a swordsman. Destroy the #ing sword.

That's totally true Hamas is the bad guy and Israel is a Hero..Israel is fighting for the right cause for all those innocent people..Israel not only fighting for there country But for the world.Everywhere in the world islam killing people for land.Luckily for the Islamic there is only one Israel or they would all be doom. Hail Israel for there bravery.

originally posted by: douglas5

A PICTURE CAN SAY 1000 WORD'S

Oh my gosh - this is pure genius! It works, it is reasonable, it is economically and socially viable and would stop all the conflict. It was also, as it says, allow palestinians their homeland back.

What possible reason could israel have not to want this?

originally posted by: BasementWarriorKryptonite
What possible reason could israel have not to want this?

Because then Israemerika loses it's foothold in the Middle East, which I imagine is rather vital to their endgame schemata...

a reply to: jdoors

Your perspective is childlike and inaccurate considering the fact Israel created the demon you claim they are fighting.

a reply to: jdoors

I don't have the luxury of seeing the world in black & white. Both sides are at war. Both sides commit atrocities related to war. The people in Gaza are blockaded by land, sea and air. The only war they can wage is an asymmetric war. They can't very well build an Armory or ammunition dump in Gaza. It would be destroyed immediately. They can't very well maintain conventional supply lines. The routes would be raided daily. They can't very well build Bases to house their troops and vehicles. It would be bombed into oblivion. They can't very well engage in the Israeli military in a conventional battle. They would be routed in minutes.

Of course the people in Gaza have one other option available. Surrender. I don't see that happening. The people in Gaza fight for survival. Tooth and Nail. Israel will never agree to a peace that is favorable to the Palestinians. I am not even sure the Israelis should. This situation is similar to the first world war. After the first year all of the warring nations wanted peace. The trouble was that both sides had worked themselves into such bias and hatred that only draconian peace terms would be acceptable. The same is true in this conflict.

It is a terrible situation that is unfolding in that part of the world. Yet to declare one side "Good" and the other side "Evil" is plain ridiculous. It also prolongs the conflict because now outsiders to the war have chosen sides. Outsiders have now driven themselves into bias and hatred. This does nothing more than keep the fuel of the conflict burning to the benefit of no one.

If anyone should be labeled "Evil" it should be the U.N. They created this mess. They do have the power to stop the conflict and mediate terms but refuse to do so.