Bev Harris Lying?

www.msnbc.msn.com...

� December 1, 2004 | 11:25 p.m. ET

More than one kind of black box (Keith Olbermann)

NEW YORK - I�ve been avoiding this topic for four weeks now, but given what I understand are a lot of dropped jaws around the blogosphere, I think I better spill this.

I don�t think Bev Harris of Black Box Voting is doing anybody any favors.

I was hoping she was. But read on....

Each and every day since our coverage of all this began on November 8, I have received a set of emails, some times a few, some times many, asking �Why don�t you have Bev Harris on Countdown?,� �Why don�t you run the Bev Harris videotapes?,� �Why don�t you show the voting tapes Bev Harris found discarded in the trash in Florida?�

Because she won�t let us.

I have not dealt with Ms. Harris directly, but my staff has, and though we have asked her on a regular basis to let us show these tapes on national television, she has declined.

I appreciated Bev Harris' efforts in looking into the possibilites of election fraud. She claimed she found tapes in the trash, but now she isn't offering any proof?

Lies cannot prove anything. What is going on?

In this case either Olbermann or his staff are lying, and should be dismissed. There is a detailed record of each event including scheduled and cancelled TV appearances for Bev Harris. She didn't do the cancelling.

Why not just go to the source? It's all there in far more detail than NBC would dare to provide. msnbc is Obfuscation Central on the issue of denial of access to public records.

www.blackboxvoting.org...

I think you should show Olbermann and his staff more appreciation. They aren't keeping silent like the rest.

Fact is. She has proof of fraud but only her "followers" know about it. If I had proof I would atleast make one appearance on Countdown. You dont have to say much just give a hint to those who have never heard of blackboxvoting or those who refuse to look.

It has been pointed out that Bev Harris was scheduled to be on Countdown back on November 8 but her appearance was cancelled. I haven�t addressed this before, either. But we didn�t cancel on her - we wanted, on that first night raising this touchy subject nobody else had previously covered, to have more mainstream guests. And we wanted her back another night. And since then we�ve wanted her to come back with her video. And she hasn�t.

I don�t know her motivations and I don�t know her bona fides. But I�m afraid at this stage, intentionally or by the simplest of communication failures, she isn�t helping illuminate this issue. And every step that attracts heat but not light is another step towards discrediting the entire process.

[edit on 4-12-2004 by Thatoneguy]

On the issue of who cancelled appearances, it seems to be a case of "He said she said". Clearly one party is being untrue. Did you read Bev Harris's account, or not?

I also think a statement like "I don't know her motivations/bona fides" is also quite irresponsible from the network. It is as if no research at all was done on Harris's background or cause to take action. That is implausible enough to be a lie, is it not?.

On the issue of proof of fraud, there are 30,000 reported irregularities in the 2004 election. The "audit" involves the biggest FOI action in US history. That process is taking place now, but there aren't too may ATS members who declare an active interest in it or in preserving democratic rights through it. Many counties and electoral officials are co-operating fully, as is their civic duty. Some are not, which begs the question "Why?"

It will be interesting to see what washes up about the cancelled TV appearances.

I have read her account. I was stunned. But I was also stunned when I found out she declined further appearances. She was asked to come back and she said no. Maybe it was out of protest.

Good news is, there will be a recount in Ohio. It was announced yesterday I believe.

I believe that fraud is likely. This was considered the most important election in our lifetime. To think that those with the ability to tamper with the votes just sat and watched like the rest of us.....

Who does the media benefit by keeping silent? Does it benefit Bush by creating less "awareness" therefore creating less support for audits and recounts?

Or does it help Kerry, by not making him look like a "cry baby liberal" who cant accept defeat?

From Bev Harris:


"Regarding being invited to be on Countdown with Keith Olbermann:

I was invited to be on the show on Nov 5. I cleared my schedule. At the last minute, the producer, Katy Carp, cancelled without an explanation.

I was invited to be on the show on Nov. 8. I cleared my schedule. One hour before the show, I contacted producer Katy Carp, who had scheduled me, because I wanted to confirm the exact time. She had not bothered to call me to cancel, but casually, and with no explanation, said "oh that's been cancelled."

I have never spoken to any producer from Olbermann's show since Nov. 8 for any invitation to be on the show. We did not come to Florida for the Volusia County or Palm Beach investigations until November 12.

Regarding making "threats" or being "belligerent":

I called Olbermann's producers very early on Thursday morning when I saw the factually incorrect, and damaging, story that Olbermann had done. I've worked very hard to establish my reputation, and the allegations that I was making up news, or that I was refusing to show anyone the source documents, and that I refused repeatedly to appear on his show, especially when followed by editorializing telling people why they should not believe my reporting because I had "repeatedly declined" to appear on the show, were very damaging.

I asked the producers to issue a correction, the standard remedy in journalism. After two hours, and after leaving two messages, I still had not heard from them. I left more messages, saying that I would of course appear on the show, suggesting that we arrange that immediately, and that of course I would bring the materials they were asking for, at least the ones I own.

After seven hours I still had not heard from them. I called again, and yes, I was assertive and forceful that the situation had to be addressed, a correction needed to be issued, and that it was damaging and libelous.

I did insist that it was imperative that we address the issue, and I did say that if I did not hear from them, I would have to call my lawyer..."



Choose your gospel. Analyzing the above two "sides" it is safe to say that msnbc is obfuscating in a very bad way. But typical for US media outlets, 2004-style.

Okay now that helps knowing there is another side to the story

Thanks

I googled to find where that Bev Harris response was from. Any links? Anything other than we should take her/your word for it?

Is Bev Harris "lying"?
Not sure, she does make some rather convincing points, but I did run across this:
Bald-Faced Lies About Black Box Voting Machines



seekerof

Originally posted by PistolPete
I googled to find where that Bev Harris response was from. Any links? Anything other than we should take her/your word for it?

Try Democratic Underground (DU). She seems to visit there on a regular basis or did anyhow....prior to being banned.



seekerof

[edit on 5-12-2004 by Seekerof]

Originally posted by Seekerof

Try Democratic Underground (DU). She seems to visit there on a regular basis or did anyhow....prior to being banned.

Wow, what are the circumstances of THAT? That's very interesting.

PistolPete

Heres a snippet of DU's official position on what happened in Bev Harris's second banning from DU board;

Ms. Harris's recent spat with Keith Olbermann has made positive discussion of verified voting increasingly difficult on DU. For over a year and a half, our members have been split into pro- and anti-Bev factions, and recent events have only exacerbated that division. Yet this morning Ms. Harris returned to DU and started posting as if nothing had happened, while making liberal use of the alert button to complain to the moderators about our enforcement of the message board rules. At this point our patience finally ran out.

The fact that the disruptions have continued, despite repeated warnings from the administrators, leaves us with no other option but to bar Bev Harris from posting on this website. We no longer believe that it is productive to allow her to use DU as a platform to promote herself while simultaneously trashing us, our moderators, and others who have been previously supportive of her cause.

Further up in the post its explained that she threatened DU with lawsuits on numerous occassions.

If Harris's credibility is not good enough for DU then what good is it at all.

DU Statement on Bev Harris

They sure seem to be Keith Olbermann fans over there eh!



[edit on 5-12-2004 by Phoenix]

Hmmmm....that's very interesting indeed. My membership at the DU dates back to Inauguration Day 2001...one of the first. But it said I had to be a "donor" to use the search function. So thanks for that.

She seemed like a pretty cogent person when I heard her on C2C AM around election time, looks can be deceiving though I guess.

I'm one of the few people that still have an open mind on the voting issue either way, so the next question is: is Bev Harris being discredited because she's on to something or because she's not credible?

I still applaud Keith for being one of the few to put this issue out on a national level.

Bev Harris's response was shifted from the front page of Black Box Voting to a forum page. Click on the first link for the story dated 4 December for the main page, it will be obvious. It's a lot worse for the NBC producers than just what I quoted above. I would trust Bev Harris's statement over any defence NBC comes out with from this point, that's from knowledge of her and growing distrust of corrupt media who provide a cover-up service, not news any more.

People who taint Harris's credibility and who are not aware of the extent of the FOI action she is responsible for are really not following the mission of this site, in my opinion. Dig deeper into black box voting to see how intense the research process has been and what has been uncovered to date. Have a look at the forums and the effort.

Deny ignorance and apathy both.

Seems a deeper look into www.blackboxvoting has come full circle with the folks over at DU (since they gave her quite a bit of money). It also seems that Randi Rhodes (Air America Radio) is taking her to task for not showing up at any of the recount hearings, also.....
After reading the comments on this 'contest' between Rhodes and Harris, she seems to have "crashed and burned"....
Bev Harris is talking live on the Randi Rhodes Show


Seems that they have realized her methods and madness?



seekerof

[edit on 14-12-2004 by Seekerof]

The issue is massive vote fraud, millions of vote distortions, not little lies you dig up that do not exist, HUGE material lies.