Meeting America: The Deep Political Divide

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: beezzer

There are criminal elements in all human populations including christian or republican, its a fact of life and unavoidable, unless you can show evidence of any human group where no crime exists.

Granted.

I can't see 50k kids a year being that much of a drain on resources, but It would be money well spent, you have to invest in the future to see a return.

So we limit it at 50K? What happen to 50,001?

a reply to: beezzer

I have seen numbers range from 50k to 65k.

I have given several things that I think makes sense to me. Ways to save money and ways to make more revenue, even if it was 100k kids a years would it be that much of a drain on resources in a country of over 300,000,000?

Any ideas to fix the problem?

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: beezzer

There are criminal elements in all human populations including christian or republican, its a fact of life and unavoidable, unless you can show evidence of any human group where no crime exists.

I can't see 50k kids a year being that much of a drain on resources, but It would be money well spent, you have to invest in the future to see a return.

Edit: Ending the war on drugs would also save us $50 billion a year and if we taxed a certain weed would also cripple the drug cartels that are destroying our southern neighbors again a win win for us and them.

Who raises these kids? If you put them in homes with their relatives who are also illegal, they will not necessarily grow up Americanized, and if you put them in the homes of Americans, you will be accused of cruelty for tearing the family apart as their families are not sending them here with the intent of surrendering legal rights. They think they will gain admission through these kids.

So, in the end, that 50K will have all sorts of hangers on who are also from elsewhere in the world. Are they also a win for us?

And how do you make sure that we only take in 50K/year? And how long will it be before we reap any gain from those 50K? Because then you have to do the math, we have to spend the money to support that 50K + every 50K in the years following right up until that first 50K starts to be self-supporting.

a reply to: beezzer

That's the spirit beez.

Glad you are interested in working towards a compromise. What issue would you like to tackle?

a reply to: ketsuko
Easy, only American citizens can adopt. These families are taking a risk sending these kids here. If they don't like it, don't send them here.

My compromise on welfare benefits: Total up what we spend to support someone in benefits. Fire the bureaucracy, and instead of managing the money for people, cut them one annual or two biannual checks. They get the same amount of money that they were getting before, but instead of us paying a big support bureaucracy to manage money for them, let them manage their own money.

We save money by not paying federal employees ridiculous sums to administer the bureaucracy, and the people who receive benefits are still receiving the same amount of support value they had before. If they can't manage (or learn to manage) their own money, then it's not anyone else's problem. After all, all the rest of us have to take our money and learn how to pay the bills with it.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Maybe revamping the system where they can be processed as citizens at the border and avoid the whole "illegal"" issue.

Like an Ellis Island center(s) along the southern border.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: ketsuko
Easy, only American citizens can adopt. These families are taking a risk sending these kids here. If they don't like it, don't send them here.

You are going to have to clean up the adoption system. There's enough red tape there to choke a mule.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

Taxes.

End this class division bull spit!

End loopholes.
Everyone pays.

You won't have to constantly raise taxes then.

a reply to: beezzer

Not everyone just kids. Americans could sign up to be adoptive parents, pass the required checks then when they get the call they would go get the kid.


Guest workers would have some type of application process like Canadians get. Once the quota for the participating states reached it limit, the program would be shut down for the season. Guest workers would be given a map to the state they will work in and a list of employers that are hiring then sent on there way. If caught outside that state assigned too other then coming or leaving they would be deported.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

I've tossed any political allegiance to the side years ago. I vet the people I vote for. I will admit to being right of center though. But I can also say that I have voted across the board.

I'm sure that it has been pointed out time and time again, both in this OP and other threads how the United States of America is divided using the by county map during election times.

City folk almost always vote DNC, and Rural folk almost always vote GOP. The thing is, each side is wrong.

The city folk DEPEND upon the rural folk for their food. The rural folk DEPEND upon the city folk for their industrial capacity.

When they both realize this and stop taxation to the Nth degree as well, people will start getting along again.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: sheepslayer247

Taxes.

End this class division bull spit!

End loopholes.
Everyone pays.

You won't have to constantly raise taxes then.

Flat out wrong beez.

This is the fiat economy, the only reason they even tax us is to cause finacial hardship on us.

Dont believe me?

Why can they just print up as much as they want when ever they want even if it is multiple times what the country produces a year GDP?

Because it doesnt matter. As soon as the fiat economy began there was no reason at all to tax the populous. They only do it to impose financial hardships on the folks, to make them more compliant.

The entire game you think your playing, is only real in your head, it is not real.

How many trillions have they printed behind our backs now?

You think we are $17 trillion in debt, it is much worse, factors worse actually.

So they can print $10 trillion a year behind our backs without our agreement, and is is good and well, but they cant make it without our sorry assed couple of trillion in taxes?

Alice is calling, she misses you in wonderland.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: beezzer

Not everyone just kids. Americans could sign up to be adoptive parents, pass the required checks then when they get the call they would go get the kid.


Guest workers would have some type of application process like Canadians get. Once the quota for the participating states reached it limit, the program would be shut down for the season. Guest workers would be given a map to the state they will work in and a list of employers that are hiring then sent on there way. If caught outside that state assigned too other then coming or leaving they would be deported.

I would agree to this.

originally posted by: oblvion

Alice is calling, she misses you in wonderland.

I miss her too.

What would you suggest?

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: LDragonFire
a reply to: beezzer

Not everyone just kids. Americans could sign up to be adoptive parents, pass the required checks then when they get the call they would go get the kid.


Guest workers would have some type of application process like Canadians get. Once the quota for the participating states reached it limit, the program would be shut down for the season. Guest workers would be given a map to the state they will work in and a list of employers that are hiring then sent on there way. If caught outside that state assigned too other then coming or leaving they would be deported.

I would agree to this.

Because it makes sense and has obvious repercussions for failing to comply, which is exactly why the dems would never agree to it.

They want amnesty for all no matter what, all day every day.

There will never be a bill for immigration passed by the dems that doesnt basically guarantee anmesty for all no strings attached.

If his plan was put forth it would die in mere seconds at Harry Reids feet as he wouldnt even allow a vote on it.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: oblvion

Alice is calling, she misses you in wonderland.

I miss her too.

What would you suggest?

Flat tax for all, 15% on all wages no relief or loopholes. Reinstate the gold standard, problems sovled.

No more behind the veil inflation from over printing our currency. No more secret exchange deals between the big banks and the FED.

All the money would be countable and visible. No more secret bailouts, none of this croniism crap.

Sounds like heaven, I would like to see it one day.

originally posted by: oblvion

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: oblvion

Alice is calling, she misses you in wonderland.

I miss her too.

What would you suggest?

Flat tax for all, 15% on all wages no relief or loopholes. Reinstate the gold standard, problems sovled.

I would like that also.



See?

Progress!

There is something wrong with our political process. But instead of meeting in the middle to work on a reasonable solution to our collective problems, we focus on whom is to blame for the problems.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

...Amen to that brother. We see the same division right here on ATS! Conservatives blaming liberals, liberals blaming conservatives. What's sad is most of them won't point the finger at their own party when they do something wrong. It absolutely divides us, and that's what those who have control want. It's much more difficult to control a united population.

Us Americans hurt ourselves by voting against ourselves every time we vote for one of the two party candidates. To truly have a government by the people, labels need to be stripped off and candidates need to run based upon their own beliefs not a party platform. As long as we continue to have the two party system we'll always have voters who paint themselves with their party colors like a football fan rooting for their favorite team.

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: oblvion

originally posted by: beezzer

originally posted by: oblvion

Alice is calling, she misses you in wonderland.

I miss her too.

What would you suggest?

Flat tax for all, 15% on all wages no relief or loopholes. Reinstate the gold standard, problems sovled.

I would like that also.

See?

Progress!

I wouldnt call it much progress, because I almost always agree with you, on all subjects, except financial equality issues, there we are black and white, though I do hold out hope of pulling you to the dark side eventually.

a reply to: oblvion

Flat tax for all. I can get behind, and tie the budget to the tax receipts they absolutely cannot exceed the intake. So if the economy dips and 15% brings in less, they have to budget and make do with less. If it brings in more, then let them use more.