ATS - Lets talk about friendship

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: FlySolo
Then there's the cognitive dissonance that happens where you realize that none of the people you have as friends really fulfill you to the degree you need but still remain friends even though secretly you don't like them.

No man is an island even though many of us want to be. People disappoint us. And conversely we disappoint them as well. Example - I don't want friends negatively gossiping about me and yet, to my shame, I have bought into negative gossip about them at times and later found out they were innocent of what the negative gossip had claimed.

We dislike others for doing some of same things we do.
Very few of us are truly likable.

No man is an island. Funny you said that because I was going to start with "Every man is an island" lol. But I think you nailed it with we dislike others for doing the same. In other words, we despise what we see in others that reminds us of ourselves that we don't like. The changes we make in ourselves is what makes us critical of others. Teenagers haven't begun that journey yet.

Being a man, I've never had to endure the gossip bit, but I've had to fight my male counterparts over women. That's a friend ender if any. But I would like to touch on "no man is an island". I disagree. I think if every person was better at forging through life without the need of others, they would be better at providing what others need. Does that make any sense? Maybe not. I'll put it another way. We search for people who can fill that void that you can't fill yourself. When you finally discover how to be truly happy alone, then you will be more equipped to fulfill other's needs.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I view it a good deal differently than you. I can count on one hand the number of people I trust completely and I am not afraid to lose any fingers. And while they may be most peoples definition of BFF or whatever I view them as family. Outside of that circle is where my friends are. Friends to me are the people I have known long and well enough to let inside my house. I don't have trust issues because I do not expect them to live up to my high standards of loyalty and honesty. People gossip and make mistakes, I leave room for my friends and acquaintances to do so. And I only reveal to them that which I don't mind being on the gossip circuit.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: nOraKat
At what level of disrespect should one no longer associate with friends and relatives?

My 'red line' for friends is when I am lied to. Lies are manipulations. That's not something a true friend would do. When I discover lies ... I forgive and I don't hold a grudge, but I no longer consider them a friend. As for relatives, we are kind of stuck with them. I am polite because it keeps things civil but not buddies with them ... if you can follow that.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

So in my case where a relative (once close with) lied many times saying he would pay me back but, never did.. what would you?

Would you stop associating with them?

(It sucks because you can like a person in other aspects..)

originally posted by: nOraKat

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: nOraKat
At what level of disrespect should one no longer associate with friends and relatives?

My 'red line' for friends is when I am lied to. Lies are manipulations. That's not something a true friend would do. When I discover lies ... I forgive and I don't hold a grudge, but I no longer consider them a friend. As for relatives, we are kind of stuck with them. I am polite because it keeps things civil but not buddies with them ... if you can follow that.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

So in my case where a relative (once close with) lied many times saying he would pay me back but, never did.. what would you?

Would you stop associating with them?

(It sucks because you can like a person in other aspects..)

I would give them a good tongue lashing, in private. If they don't go out of their way to rectify the situation, I would drop them like a hot potato.

originally posted by: KeliOnyx
a reply to: FlyersFan

I view it a good deal differently than you. I can count on one hand the number of people I trust completely and I am not afraid to lose any fingers. And while they may be most peoples definition of BFF or whatever I view them as family. Outside of that circle is where my friends are. Friends to me are the people I have known long and well enough to let inside my house. I don't have trust issues because I do not expect them to live up to my high standards of loyalty and honesty. People gossip and make mistakes, I leave room for my friends and acquaintances to do so. And I only reveal to them that which I don't mind being on the gossip circuit.

I'm like you. I trust everyone pretty much 98% of the time, but leave 2% for forgiveness if warranted. Though I have one sister who I rarely talk to as she always tries to belittle my accomplishments or is just plain mean. Probably because she's on welfare and just jealous. Two other sisters have cut themselves off from family, though I have no idea as to why. All I know is that they are bitter. Family skeletons in the closet I guess.

I hate to say it, but my extended family of friends probably mean more to me than my actual family. Maybe because there is more leeway?

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: nOraKat
At what level of disrespect should one no longer associate with friends and relatives?

My 'red line' for friends is when I am lied to. Lies are manipulations. That's not something a true friend would do. When I discover lies ... I forgive and I don't hold a grudge, but I no longer consider them a friend. As for relatives, we are kind of stuck with them. I am polite because it keeps things civil but not buddies with them ... if you can follow that.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

I cannot handle manipulation or people who are creating drama. I have a sister that is a drama queen and I frankly feel very happy with not having to deal with her in my life. They say blood is thicker than water but my friends I would do a lot for and I choose my friends not my family.

But on a psychological level it is interesting how she can stab you in the back (and my mom) and be all innocent of what she is doing and not see what she is doing and use her feelings as justification for whatever mess she creates, always blaming others for the drama and her being the victim in everything. To bad she is so intelligent because otherwise her innocent act would not work so well.

originally posted by: skunkape23

originally posted by: nOraKat

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: nOraKat
At what level of disrespect should one no longer associate with friends and relatives?

My 'red line' for friends is when I am lied to. Lies are manipulations. That's not something a true friend would do. When I discover lies ... I forgive and I don't hold a grudge, but I no longer consider them a friend. As for relatives, we are kind of stuck with them. I am polite because it keeps things civil but not buddies with them ... if you can follow that.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

So in my case where a relative (once close with) lied many times saying he would pay me back but, never did.. what would you?

Would you stop associating with them?

(It sucks because you can like a person in other aspects..)

I would give them a good tongue lashing, in private. If they don't go out of their way to rectify the situation, I would drop them like a hot potato.

I did that and no effect, just kept saying "I'll pay you back." After a few years, I gave up. I even had a couple other friends take such a long time to pay me back. I'm like - "what's wrong with everyone?" If somebody helped me out I would make it a strong point to pay them back promptly out of gratitude. I don't know, maybe has something to do with our culture.

Thanks for replying. Seems like nobody wanted to touch that one..

a reply to: nOraKat

Hey, Thought I would interject with something here.
You said, "what's wrong with everyone?" If somebody helped me out I would make it a strong point to pay them back promptly out of gratitude. I don't know, maybe has something to do with our culture.
Thanks for replying. Seems like nobody wanted to touch that one.."

Well I have been wanting to 'Touch' this one, as I am on the other side of the coin here.
I'm still not sure if this will be worded right but here goes:
My aunt, yrs ago loaned me a large sum of money. I was newly Disabled , 4 surgeries on lower spine, and needed the extra for bills. She knew I wasn't able to pay her back right away, but I still told her I wanted to, and would try to do just that.
Months went by, and I didn't/couldn't pay her anything substantial back. 20 bucks here and there, but was a long way from getting it knocked down. Soon along came X-Mas. She sent me 200.00 Bucks to help me get gifts for our kids!
I was floored! Could not believe that she did that for us!

She does NOT put money ahead of family/friendships, as it should be that way. More important to her, are people, not monetary matters.

I have lost money to friends in the past, and at first it upset me. But after thinking it over for long periods of time, I ended up thinking, 'Screw It! I'll either get it back, or not.' I realized that I had finally looked at it like my Aunt did. From a humanitarian standpoint.
I didn't want the relationship(s) to end over money, as we were pretty close friends.
So I still have a few whom I consider friends, that owed me, still owe, but are not in touch with due to geographical distances, but if they contacted me, or vice versa, I would communicate with them as if there were no problems...........

Anyway, Thought I'd give the view from the other side of the Coin. Later, Syx.

Yeah a friend is someone who is loyal and trustworthy but can also tell you that your decision isn't good for you. So they're loyal enough to help you make the right choice, showing concern too.

I have one true best friend, been my friend for years. One more person and it just becomes too complicated for me.

a reply to: SyxPak

(Unlike my cousin who never paid me back), my two other friends eventually paid me back, even though it took them years, and I had to hound them for it.

In their eyes, it seemed like they were doing nothing wrong, (or that it was no big deal), while in my eyes it was very disrespectful. I shouldn't have to hound you to pay me back and it shouldn't take years. The prior incident with my cousin made the feelings worse, and the whole charade created much distance between my friends.

To me its really amazing how people hold views like this, like it is no big deal to pay them back. I had to work really hard to save.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but really - thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it means a lot.

---

Also I'm realizing, that this viewpoint/occurrence is super prevalent. Maybe its an American thing (sorry to have to say) since so many do it; like you mention, it happened to you with your friends.

For you its different, because you are disabled. It would be a different if the guy who borrowed it was able bodied, sporting nice clothes and a car (while at the time, I didn't even own a car). Its messed up.

But maybe I'm missing something since some of my family thought I was wrong for disassociating myself from him.

a reply to: nOraKat

The situation you mentioned is indeed disrespectful. And NO, you shouldn't have had to hound them for repayment. When a deal is struck between people, there is only their word, to make it binding. And after all, what else do we really have, but our word?!
I still feel bad for the way my ordeal ended up. But My Aunt is just fine with it. Her point to me was that money should not be placed before, in importance, Family and/or Friends. The system is what makes that happen. When money is treated with such high regards.
But don't blame yourself, or think there is anything wrong with you. Like I said, it is the system that makes us think the way we do. You just have to dig deep within yourself, and figure out what is more important to You. Whatever way you turn on all this, will be the right way, for you. Noone else's viewpoint should matter. Afterall, it is only their point of view...... (as is all this I am telling you right now) Just do what feels right to You! Later, Syx.

a reply to: SyxPak

Hey, man really appreciate your feedback. Thanks.

a reply to: nOraKat

See to me money doesn't matter like that. If I have it to "loan" someone I typically don't "loan" it unless I am ok with the idea of never getting it back. Ultimately when you loan a sum of money to someone and they don't pay you back the universe itself will. It is what you make it out to be. I certainly wouldn't damage a friendship over something as trivial as money.

originally posted by: KeliOnyx
a reply to: nOraKat

If I have it to "loan" someone I typically don't "loan" it unless I am ok with the idea of never getting it back.

I definitely didn't see it like that when I was lending it, but apparently many other people see it that way. Must remember that next time I lend anybody money.

Thanks for the reply.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a person whom you have a nonsexual mutual affection with...

I kinda lost interest after that line.

originally posted by: KeliOnyx
a reply to: nOraKat

See to me money doesn't matter like that. If I have it to "loan" someone I typically don't "loan" it unless I am ok with the idea of never getting it back. Ultimately when you loan a sum of money to someone and they don't pay you back the universe itself will. It is what you make it out to be. I certainly wouldn't damage a friendship over something as trivial as money.

Couldn't agree more! If you have a friend in such need that they ask to borrow money...give it to them (if you can) and let them know you are giving it with no expectation of return. If they return it...great! If not...you haven't lost a friend.