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If Ukraine Achieves Victory/Peace What Happens To Putin Afterwards?

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posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:42 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014




So basically, you got your information not from cnn and others, but from a couple of facebook profiles, and a propaganda site that posts nothing but a "fake" Russian news. Seems legit.


Those profiles aren't for them, and you have the evidence that backs this up?

Unlike the factual news coming from the Russian media...gotcha.



Man, when i saw the length of your post i thought it would be something good, something that i can take serious, but i was wrong. I guess people will believe in anything they read, as long as it's okay with their belief.


Well please show me where anything is wrong...You do know that Russian media has had to apologize many times on running fabricated news on Ukraine.

I will wait for you to provide the evidence that shows what is said about Russian media lies as being wrong.




posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:54 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Well, just look up at what is that site posting mostly. "Exposed" Russians lies. No one else's. Just Russian's.

Also, are you saying that we don't get propaganda news from the western media about the situation in Ukraine also? It's nothing new, we've seen it many times before. I don't understand the big deal about it. US and NATO used false information to justify their military actions against many countries. Latest one is Syria.

When I get source of a actual Russian media site saying lies, not just cut photos, then we will talk.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Your hyperbole notwithstanding you completely ducked answering my question. The question to your statement that very few Russians know about the sanctions.

I'm sure the Russian border control people have no idea why they are turning back truckloads of foodstuffs from west and Russian financial and business people and all those who work for them have no idea there are western sanctions, puh-leeze. /sarc

OP - In regard to your question, nothing will happen to Putin regardless of what happens with Ukraine. It's possible though the US and EU will try to escalate the conflict even if they get everything they wish out of this mess.

Most likely by trying to retake Crimea at some point in the future which could easily become a shooting war with Russia. Of course that also depends on whether the EU begins to breakdown due to the sanctions pushed by the US.

In this case I think the Russian people believe they are under attack by the west which is why Putin's popularity is so high at home.


edit on 668am4646am102014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:11 AM
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originally posted by: stanislas
a reply to: john666



Unfortunately nothing is going to happen to traitor Putin(unless a miracle happens).

?
Please explain why in your point of view Putin is a traitor? Also what miracle are you talking about?


Putin promised to the rebels, that if situation "escalated", he will send Russian military into Ukraine.
As we all see, Russian military is not in the Ukraine.
In another words, he lied!
He lied to the people who trusted him.

As for the miracles, few miracles already happened to me, and they are probably going to again happen to me, in the near future.
And if miracles can happen to me personally, maybe they can happen to Russia as whole(even though, i myself don't live in Russia).



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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Screenshot of translated omnibus survey Levada center published 8th August 2014( Levada, top independent public opinion research center in Russia )
Levada survey in russian

Financial analyst Pavel Netupski gave an insight about the survey. People in Russia do not understand that sanctions will have effect in their lives, They do not understand that when there is more demand for the products the prices will get higher. Also the claim of russian politics about new food importers are weird.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 11:20 AM
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a reply to: Wirral Bagpuss




If the war in Ukraine is resolved with either the Kiev/Ukraine army defeating the Russian backed separatists, or with an agreed ceasefire, what will this do for Putin?


I believe this scenario has played itself out multiple times in the last hundred years. If the surrogates of Russia start to lose, Russia will simply find a pretense to invade. The only way to stop this is to make the price of invading Ukraine too prohibitive to Putin. Frankly, I don't see the current US President, nor the big European players doing much either. I would imagine the CIA wants to arm the # out of the Ukrainians, but is being held back by Obama. Look for B team countries to step up. I wouldn't imagine poor Poland is quite nervous about this. Perhaps they would be the most likely way to funnel some 10 year old US tech that would destroy the Russians war material. The Ukraine problem has the potential to start a really nasty war.


V



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Nikola014




Also, are you saying that we don't get propaganda news from the western media about the situation in Ukraine also? It's nothing new, we've seen it many times before. I don't understand the big deal about it. US and NATO used false information to justify their military actions against many countries. Latest one is Syria.


I have never said that thank you very much.

Why is it everyone who backs the Russian stance on Ukraine has to either bring in the problems in Gaza, or the Syrian conflict because both of those are very different situations that have nothing to do with Ukraine.

If you don't understand the big deal about it then you really have an interesting mindset.

So from what your saying is Russia was justified to create the reason they invaded a sovereign nation and annexed part of that sovereign nation. And how many nations has NATO and the US annexed on false pretenses?

Russia can't seem to let those countries go that left them in the 90's because Putin feels the need to rebuild the former USSR, because he can't stand not being the top dog. The world was praising him at one time now they condemn him.

He had the chance to bring Russia to the head of the superpower class, but he decided to blow that with Ukraine.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 11:56 AM
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a reply to: Bassago




Your hyperbole notwithstanding you completely ducked answering my question. The question to your statement that very few Russians know about the sanctions.


How did I duck your question as it was pretty vague?



Why do you say stuff like this?


What stuff did I say that you are questioning, because I said they would hurt the RUssian citizens more and the government is not going to be truthful in telling them.

What exactly is it your wanting to hear?

Russia is not the thriving country it makes it's citizens think it is...


One reason why Russians support their country's invasion of Crimea is because Russia looks strong again. The Russian military appears well-equipped, disciplined and efficient. Gone are the undersized Soviet-era recruits, the cartoon Rambos of the Chechen campaigns and the officers in banana republic-style oversize hats of the 1990s. These guys look like real soldiers — like U.S. GIs.

This picture of strength obscures the fact that the Ukrainian misadventure stems not from strength but from weakness. The need to use force comes from Russia's failure to interest Ukraine in a voluntary alliance. Russia's economic and political system is so utterly unattractive that Ukraine, like former Soviet satellites in Eastern Europe and other former Soviet republics, wants to have nothing to do with it. This is the reason so much of Ukraine has opted to join the West.

For 20 years, Ukraine had a system that was very similar to Russia's — until its latest kleptocrat, the utterly shameless and supremely greedy former President Viktor Yanukovych, finally ran it into the ground. The choice to adopt a more open, competitive, rules-based Western-style system is natural for a democratic Ukraine. Putinism can only work in a country that, like Russia, earns $350 billion annually by exporting its oil and gas.

But even Russia's phenomenal natural wealth can't support indefinitely an economic system that produces little and instead efficiently breeds parasites. Even with high oil prices and output, the Russian economy is sputtering. Capital and brains are fleeing the country, investment is shrinking, and inflation is on the rise. The Central Bank has already been forced to devalue the currency to make petrodollars go farther in ruble terms.


www.themoscowtimes.com...

If it is so strong why won't they let the people be free and have freedoms they don't have?

At least we have the ability to criticize the government without the chance of being thrown in prison or in some cases death, Russians don't have that ability.

Do you really think Putin and his cronies in the government are going to hurt is approval rating by telling the RUssian people the truth...how do you think he has stayed in power this long?



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Still waiting for a link or source to validate your statement that very few Russians are aware of the sanctions.



Do you really think Putin and his cronies in the government are going to hurt is approval rating by telling the RUssian people the truth..


So are you now doubling down by suggesting Putin's popularity is so high in part because he's hiding the information about the western sanctions and Russian counter sanctions from his citizens?

Waiting for a source to your claims..
edit on 787pm5050pm122014 by Bassago because: remove snark



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 12:44 PM
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Come on!
Putin is in a no lose situation as long as he just lets Ukraine implode.

It is this simple. Because of what happened Ukraine farmers did no planting. In 6 months and no food for Ukraine and their government and all alliances crumbling Ukraine cannot survive. Putin just has to wait it out for the west to abandon a divided and crumbling statea reply to: Wirral Bagpuss



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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Let me point out, as a historical precedent, that Gamal Nasser managed to survive complete defeat in the 1967 war against Israel.

He kept his place by resigning, and then giving way to the mass demonstrations demanding that he should stay.
It can be done.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 01:49 PM
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a reply to: Bassago




Still waiting for a link or source to validate your statement that very few Russians are aware of the sanctions.


Well can you show where they know about them, because if he won't be honest about his reasons for being in Ukraine do you think he tells them about sanctions.

If the Russian citizens know they may have to stand in lines for basic needs do you think they will just up and say it's okay Vlad has our back?

Here is an interesting little report that says they banned the food because of health concerns, yet they up till the point of further sanctions had no problems with the food.



Yes it is Press TV, but if the Russians are going to lie to them do you think they are telling the citizens the truth. And Iran is one of their allies.

And here I never said that I know for sure, as I said my guess would be so at least learn the difference.


edit on 10-8-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



Well can you show where they know about them


So we'll go with your statements about Russians being subjected to a media grey/black-out about sanctions to protect Putin's ratings as your unsubstantiated opinion. Yes?

As for your question I provided a couple links and a graphic to prove my point that Russians are aware of the sanctions. I'd consider that proof the information is available to them.

Dollukka also provided a graphic showing their awareness to the issues. Point is the Russians are aware and Putin's stand against the west has only increased his popularity at home.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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a reply to: Bassago





As for your question I provided a couple links and a graphic to prove my point that Russians are aware of the sanctions. I'd consider that proof the information is available to them.


And I asked if you have anything that doesn't come from the Russian run media and you have yet to provide that, so can you provide that?



Dollukka also provided a graphic showing their awareness to the issues. Point is the Russians are aware and Putin's stand against the west has only increased his popularity at home.


And did you miss this part...



Financial analyst Pavel Netupski gave an insight about the survey. People in Russia do not understand that sanctions will have effect in their lives, They do not understand that when there is more demand for the products the prices will get higher.


So it seems they don't understand the sanctions or the effect it will have on them, and why is that could it be because the government isn't telling them the whole truth on what the sanctions will cause or are they just ignoring the facts?

Here is a good article discussing his approval rating...

rbth.com...



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 02:56 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h



And I asked if you have anything that doesn't come from the Russian run media and you have yet to provide that, so can you provide that?


That's the whole point, Russian media is talking about sanctions. Their people are aware, you said they we not aware of the sanctions and alluded that was to prop up Putin's popularity. Obviously you wish to change that to "they are aware but don't know what will happen."

Whatever, believe what you will, believe the Russian people are dumb and can't figure out the obvious. I will not make that mistake.

My apologies to the OP for any thread drift.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: Nikola014




Do you honestly think that Russians have no idea what those sanctions means to them? Yes, those sanctions might be bad, but will it be the end of Russia or Putin? No, simply because there are a lot of other countries that don't care what EU and US is doing.


Putin will stay there as he is only strong leader that Russia has right now.

The sanctions will do 2 things

a) Cultivate domestic Russian industries in food and agriculture, electronics etc. More money and encouragement into research institutions to prop up domestic technologies and keep the Russian brain at home.

b) Russia gets more close to alliance like BRICS and SCO. Russia should have done this 10 years ago but its never too late.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
Russians only know what he wants them to know. Unless it can be proven he ordered the shoot down of MH 17 he really doesn't have to worry about something such as war crimes.


Oh please, what a retarded moron ...

Putin isn't doing anything, because he doesn't want a war.

Of course, Putin is wrong ... he's trying to play it safe, but he shouldn't. When Ukraine wins, there will be over a million refugees in Russia, which will demand "retribution". Putin won't give it, so he will lose the next election and you're likely to get a very unfriendly president, the next time around.

But you shouldn't worry about the Russians, worry about the Chinese ... they're aiming missiles at the US, and their naval ships will be sailing the Atlantic ocean soon.

Putin, is most likely playing for the long term ... not the short term. he doesn't care about Ukraine, he cares about the war ... and this war, will be lost by the US and her allies. Unless you wise up, which is unlikely.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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If Ukraine had joined Russian customs union, then Russia would have gained a potential market for some of its products. A market of the size of 40 million people. However, Ukraine wants to join the EU to the extent of fighting a war. Hence let Ukraine join the EU for the sake of the peace for its people and the region. Most of the folks from eastern region will still seek to find work and business terms with Russia anyways. Currently there are 2 million Ukrainians working in Russia to begin with (my figures might be little wrong here). There are 250 Ukrainian firms supplying Russian arms industries alone and total exports of Ukraine to Russia are $15B each single year.

On the other hand, Russia can invite Iran to join its customs union. Russia can expand the union via also inviting Turkmenistan and thus have common borders with Iran. The population of Iran is 70 million and it is a much more rich nation than Ukraine. Iran is soon going to be a part of SCO anyways. Down the road, once Iraq settles down it can also join the union, given its strongly similar religion to Iranian people.

Russia and Kremlin should focus on building terms with nations based on economics as money is what runs the everyday economy all over the world. People will follow the money, peace and basic freedoms and reject oppression and strong arm tactics of military or even financial bribes.

To become economically strong Russia needs to also weed out internal problems like corruption and too much reliance on energy prices etc.





posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 04:44 PM
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Of course, Putin is wrong ... he's trying to play it safe, but he shouldn't.
a reply to: bjarneorn

I don't think Russia has desire to face more wide economic sanctions that would throw its economy into recession.

Playing war with Ukraine can also get NATO involved. NATO has right to help Ukraine in war based on 1994 treaty........but only upon consultations. NATO has NO obligation but right to get involved if it chooses to do so.

However, Russian military is in no shape to fight war with NATO and will have to resort to WMDs much soon. Something no one wants to see happen.

Hence, Putin is better off not playing war at his point.




posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 04:55 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
Ukraine can win the physical conflict it remains to be seen if they can survive the economic consequences.


Probably not an accurate statement considering all of the ex Soviet-aligned states who have joined the EU have seen their economies vastly improved over the years, the financial crisis not withstanding.

Russia will continue to meddle. The last they they want is a prosperous Ukraine that highlights Russia's corruption, nepotism and lack of economic depth.

Regards




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