The "Jinn" and Electromagnetic Pollution

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

No doubt many cases involve psychological instability. This is why any research has to be thorough and unbiased. That being said, it is my personal belief that the truthfulness of paranormal experiences can be likened to the odds for the existence of life outside this planet. When it comes to the argument of extraterrestrial/ultra-dimensional experiences it's a number game. Just like the odds of life developing on any given world in any given system inside any given galaxy. The one thing skeptics cannot argue is the shear vastness of the universe. The numbers say it is highly improbable that anything is impossible.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
Hello,

I normally post in the UFO forum, and I've posted some REALLY speculative stuff
there for the past year.... I could have posted this there. or just threw this
onto any of the Vallee / Keel - like threads.. but this person's hypothesis has
me so fascinated, that I decided to post it in the 'crazy bin' to maximize
discussion.

Here's the link:

The Jinn from a 'Scientific' Perspective

Now a summary of why I'm posting this..

Myself and various other ATS folks are very open to the ideas of Jacques Vallee,
John Keel and others, that any 'real' UFO phenonemon (not hoaxes, simple
astronomical confusions, swamp gas, balloons, chinese lanterns or what not)
are not in fact due to the ETH (E.T. Hypothesis - little
green men from other planets in the universe), but are in fact related to the EDH
(Extra Dimensional Hypothesis) or even the UTD (Ultra-dimensional Hypothesis --
fellow residents of our planet).

Now one of the useful explanations commonly discussed, is that there are
'energy beings' which go by many names, but in this case they are called
"Jinn" from the Islamic perspective.. or 'energy creatures' 'born of fire'.

Now I myself am not religious.. but there is no reason that we can't take
observations from various sources and investigate them.

The core concept about "Jinn" and other 'trickster type entities" is that
they are as Jacques Vallee (the PHD in computer science and Masters degree
in Astophysics calls them) "Messengers of Deception". These 'entities'
whatever they are, are consummate liars that supposedly can assume any
physical form whatsoever.. can cloud human minds, appear and dissapear at will..
and in general will always leave you with the check if you take them to lunch.
The "Jinn hypothesis" would certainly explain why no 'UFOs' have ever landed
on the whitehouse lawn and asked to see our leader -- as per this theory,
there ARE NO UFOs.. just electromagnet life forms 'screwing with us'.

Now the one paragraph I found quite genius at the above link is this:

"Man's pollution of both the material level
and the finer levels?

Ever since the Industrial Revolution, spurred on by 19th century Rationalism,
we have been poisoning and disturbing life for other types of physical beings
on this Planet. Perhaps with the harnessing and mass employment of electromagnetism,
we have now started on yet a further stage, i.e., the poisoning and disturbing for a
whole variety of beings dwelling on the subtler levels of this Planet?

If so, is it any surprise that many of them should be hostile towards us?"

Now while there have been 'flaps' of 'sightings' going back to pre-biblical times,
all this 'saucer madness' did start around 1947, after Radar had been developed
for World War II.

I can certainly appreciate, that any actual 'energy beings' which might share
this planet with us, would be QUITE annoyed with us for cooking them with
Microwaves and Radar.. it wouldn't be surprising at all if this made them angry
and irrational and homicidal in fact...

Well... just an interesting hypothesis on this person's part, that really amused
me and which I think is worthy of discussion.

Kev

EM waves are caused by the vibration of electrons from EM radiation when an atom absorbs energy. There has to be a causation or source somewhere in the equation. Like how the sun works. Any being made of it would be impervious to anything man made. Radar, microwaves, and other forms of electromagnetic radiation would simply go right through the EM being. The being would be invisible and undetectable by current technology and would not be able to communicate with us in any verbal or sound like manor, nor would it be able take visible, physical forms.

Anything non-physical, which could appear as physical, would likely be the creation of something projected, electromagnetically holographic. If there were beings preferring to remain covert for scientific reasons, they could certainly possess the technology to project things which would emulate life as we understand it. Something of this nature could be utilized as a sort of proxy or intermediation device for telepathic communication. It could also be used to convince us that we are interacting physically, when in fact the experience of interaction would involve brain and mind stimulation as a tactile, visionary reality. If a non-human entity really wanted to understand human beings, they would have to find a way to stimulate physiological effects that would be recorded and then digitized into a language of chemistry, allowing them to compare themselves to us.

In 2013 three physics professors at Harvard were able to use specific laser generated light photons, binding them in a state of matter. It was compared to the example of the light saber in the star wars saga. Another correlation would be made with the possibilities of such a technology being used in light beams that could be used as tractor beams, to push or pull, perhaps even wound.

Vallee also covered an unusual incident in Brazil in the late 70s (island of Colares, 1977) involving a group of several dozen islanders who were reportedly attacked by large UFOs emitting powerful light beams that bruised them and in some cases absorbed blood from the victim's skin leaving small, bruised holes in the chest area.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

You’ve touched on immensely complex topics.

It’s obvious that you (& The Gut) are dyed-in-the-wool acolytes of Jacques Vallee.

Vallee’s ideas are brilliant and every UFO buff should be familiar with his general theories:

Jacques Vallee: "I believe that UFOs are physically real. They represent a fantastic technology controlled by an unknown form of consciousness...they may not be from outer space." (from Messengers of Deception [1979])

In a nutshell, Vallee BELIEVES that some nameless agency has been staging UFO/Abduction phenomena to herd humankind in a particular direction and “they” have been doing this for millennia.

What is the direction we are being herded in now?

According to Vallee, humans are being lead to believe they can have all their problems solved by waiting for their fake “space brothers” to save them.

I found this comment especially interesting: “Other goals include 'the reversal of the scale of values …leading to a new understanding of social good, the abolition of borders, and the death of nationalism,’ goals which are certainly becoming the reality in today's America.”

Vallee’s term “Manipulators” is used to describe the nameless agency faking UFO/Abduction phenomena -- to ultimately reduce humankind “ to an irrational, dependent mob without recourse to country or nationality, and, by extension, without recourse to family, community, financial solvency, or spirit of independence.”

Who are the “Manipulators”?

According to Vallee, they COULD be “a secret cabal composed of military personnel of various Western nations” and they “are attempting to convince the masses that an invasion from space may be imminent; their goal is to unify the nations of the earth against a common enemy and thus prevent further catastrophic wars.”

OR according to Vallee, the “Manipulators” COULD be demons. See the works of John Keel. The demons have human help in the form of magicians who use occult laws to manipulate humankind.

This really got my attention: “… the 'Manipulators' might also be a hidden, non-human race coexisting with man on Earth, or time travelers, while the actual source of the genuine, ‘control system’ UFOs might be an actual deity ('God').”

This really sounds David Icke-ish with inter-dimensional Reptilian overlords running the planet thru their human puppets.

Let me make it clear that I don’t have a problem entertaining any of these ideas as possibilities. Where I part ways with Vallee is in my belief in Extra-Terrestrials.

I thought it was important to quickly review Vallee’s basic (much condensed) theories here before I responded to your post to me.

AV

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

KellyPrettyBear: I feel (could be wrong) that you like your current world-view, and do not actually wish to discuss much / argue, and possibly expose your certainties to uncertainty... sorry if this observation is wrong or rude.

If that's true, I can certainly understand that perspective.. 90% of what I hear or read is pure DREK in my opinion, and only a few authors and researchers (Vallee/Keel/Mr. Gut) get me excited to discuss this stuff. But sometimes I'm very pleasantly surprised by some poster... and nobody died and made me the second coming either.. I can just speak for myself.

Safe to say none of us know it all. As I said in my previous post, it’s clear that you (& The Gut) are dyed-in-the-wool acolytes of Jacques Vallee. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just that I differ with Vallee’s assumption that ETs probably do not exist. I dropped into this thread knowing that an argument was likely – when I don’t have the time or energy for an argument – hence the hesitation to join the discussion.

It’s kind of like dropping into a thread by an Atheist when you’re a Theist. Lots of fruitless arguing when the existence of God can neither be proved nor disproved. It really boils down to a matter of faith. Certain ideas resonate with a person or not.

If you think 90% of the UFO info you read is pure DRECK, and only Vallee/Keel/Mr.Gut are worthy researchers/writers, I would say you have a narrower outlook on the UFO/Abduction phenomenon than I do. I know we live in a Universe of “high strangeness” -- there is so much we do not know – so many possibilites.

So when I read about possible aerial plasma beings inhabiting our skies, I am not quick to dismiss it. It might be possible.

KellyPrettyBear: I half-way agree with half of what you wrote, and some of what you wrote makes me really queasy (the race stuff... that's really bad Ju Ju) …

I am NOT a NeoNazi. The Nazis believed that the “Aryan” or Nordic race of HUMANS was the “Master Race.” WRONG. The “Master Race” is NOT human. They’re ETs. They do not consider humans (even the blond ones) to be their equals.

For one thing they’re about 7 to 8 ft in height, powerfully built. (If you saw the Ridley Scott movie “Prometheus” [2012] you get an idea of their general form. It made me wonder how much Ridley Scott knows.) Except the Annunaki Blonds have very fine, pale blond hair and finer facial features than the “Prometheus” ETs.

The Annunaki Blonds created Homo sapiens by taking an Earth hominid and improving it by splicing in their DNA. They created the five major races (White, Yellow, Red, Brown, Black) and planted them in different parts of the world. This was a very long time ago. Since then each race has suffered mutations. Then there have been migrations and cross-breeding between the races. The current batch of humans is ONE species.

Their blond hair & blue eyes were engineered to be recessive – which is why it’s so rare in the world. The majority of humans have dark hair & dark eyes. That’s the way they designed it. The fact that blond hair & blue eyes popped up in a small batch of humans is a MUTATION. Besides very few of the blond humans have the same “blondness” of the ETs.

KellyPrettyBear: I see what appears to be bits of various traditions indwelling your world-view and that's ok.. you are somewhat open-minded and curious it appears... I'd call those bits 'corruption' from the 'Control Loop Entity' but as we've co-evolved with these critters (which I liken to stomach bacteria in some cases) it's rather
inevitable! Anybody can quote other traditions, but to cast off all that baggage and do direct research isn't for the faint of heart.

“Corruption” from the “Control Loop Entity” (as you call it) is inevitable. I think it’s naïve to think that we can cleanse our “normal” perceptual grid of all of our programming. Our perceptions are subjective, except what can be measured in a lab.

The only way our consciousness can perceive “Ultimate Reality” (return to a clean slate) is by the grace of God.

KellyPrettyBear: Can you propose some narrow thing with which to form a testable hypothesis? Even a good hypothesis, like with 'Radar' from that original authors link was really appreciated.

Can you be more specific? What hypothesis are you talking about?

a reply to: AuranVector

Hey,

Thanks for a very thoughtful response.

I love it when someone who has a very rigid view (at the very core) is very willing
to accept other possibilities. I have to admit that description also applies to me.

As far as 'real' ET's' --- sure they exist

pretty much in a separate universe, as it appears to me anyway, that we may
well be in what I call a 'pot hole universe' --- it actually has elements of simulation
as part of it.. but it's not a pure simulation.

I'm not really wanting to go into all the reasons why I think that is.. as I'm
attempting to meet you part way here.. I don't want to argue with you
or anyone.. to argue (fruitfully), there has to be sufficient common ground
and rules of engagement or there is no point.

I HAVE looked at the annunaki type stuff very carefully... read "Dragons of Eden"
and "Flying Serpents" and all that.. the more 'credible appearing stuff'.

Now it would have been exciting if even 1 atom's worth of any of that was true..
but insofar as I can tell, not one atom's worth is. Again, I don't want to argue
about that.. it very nearly wouldn't matter to me if it were true.. nor would it
have any real consequence.. even IF those Enlil and El folks thought they were
pulling all the strings.. it wouldn't be true... 'their' strings would be pulled too..
so in effect they would be just another layer of deception and completely and
totally irrelevant.

But that's just me.

Now... I highly suspect that our ' true DNA' might encompass 'dark matter'
elements, and if you want to say that some 'Annuniki type creature' had
messed with that.. well then I'd have to agree.. somewhat...

So you see.. I'm really far more open-minded than perhaps you thought..
but I'm not buying any of the 'common snake oil'. If I have to drink any
'snake oil' it's going to be home brew.. then at least I'll be damned by
my own hands, and not just a random victim of poor quality snake oil.

I don't do simple black and white thinking.. that's all very close to wrong..
even gravity and matter and what not are far more nuanced than people
might know. Everything is nuanced. Anything which appears black and
white is probably just a form of religion and thus innately wrong (as black
and white almost doesn't exist... it's the many worlds interpretation of
quantum mechanics and other things.. EVERYTHING is in flux with
EVERYTHING.. everything is an emergent property of EVERYTHING
interacting with EVERYTHING.

As far as a hypothesis.. I'm talking about something simple and perhaps
eventually falsifiable.. like.. are 'UFOs' whatever they are very interested
and/or affected by RADAR. That could be tested.. if you had a huge database
of UFO sightings with sufficient data in it.

But to say that ENLIL modified cro-magnon or earlier DNA in order to make
a slave race.. when there is basically no scientific possibility of that since we
have sequenced the entire genome of humans and associated primates..
that contention is either already flat out false.. or you can throw 10 pages
of junk metaphysics at it to try to weasel out of it.. or hide behind dark
matter (see I'm honest) to justify it.. which is fine... but then you probably
lose all ability to test and either prove or disprove one narrow hypothesis.

Anyone can post a mountain of dribble/drek/metaphysics.. but it's much
better if you can make a hypothesis which is just a few paragraphs (like radar
might effect the beasties) and then at least you have something bite-sized
to talk about and possibly test.

Thanks for writing!

Kev

a reply to: AuranVector

I see you have read the good Doctor.. and quoted those ideas of his
that are closest to your comfort zone (apparently). Now I don't
disagree with your 'spin' or Dr. Vallee's 'spin' of that nature in some
of his books.. I'm a layers of deception and layers of reality type of
person so it MIGHT all be good..

But Dr. Vallee certainly does the sentient plasma approach just as
much (or more?). And John Keel too of course. Both authors
are awesome.

Now as you may or may not have read me writing.. it SEEMS to me
and possibly others that there may be 2 major factions afoot..

1) Pushing for a technical future that marginalizes 'spirituality' except
as a pure tool of oppression. I would expect that android bodies would
be the major development sought, both for 'slave-race humans' and
any 'energy beings' this path involves.. so they can 'incarnate' in
a long-term durable form and not as an unreliable human.

2) Pushing for a more honest and 'spiritual' future, where life is
valued and it's not just all about oppressing humans...

Two or more factions.. maybe many more factions may be involved..
especially if many beings/realities are affecting us here.. which
certainly seems feasible given the very credible Many Worlds Interpretation
of QM.

So while I'm glad you have read Vallee and Keel.. I would just see the
more Annunaki type approach as being close to meaningless.. just
another faction among many.. just one possible faction fighting
for air-time with all the rest.

I see the 'sentient plasma' thing as a more 'cosmic' level mechanism
and 'Annunaki or ET' and just minor local politics.

But who knows?

That's why we discuss all these things.. or to see who has the largest
metaphysical penis.. or whatever is really going on here sometimes!

(Humor).

Thanks,

Kev

a reply to: Gianfar

I'm familiar with your reasoning and references, thanks.

I'm also glad you have read the good Doctor and yes, I devour
"New Scientist every day of the week" ... very interesting
research is happening with light right now.

I suspect that most of us are using 'EM' in a rather loose
manner, and not just in the manner described by Maxwell's
equations or more sophisticated physics.

I suppose it's a bit of QM/Dark Matter/Dark Energy/Quantum
Mechanics pixie dust and not 'real science' for the most part..
but we are speculating.. and trying to come up with new
possibilities... we are thinking out loud in generalities to
see if we can shake any interesting bits free of this giant
morass of craziness which is both physics and metaphysics
in this world.

I have had a few arguments with die hard reductionists
(have little imagination) who say that energy beings are
not possible without a matter lattice to keep them
coherent.. to allow for EM emission due to electron
shell movement, etc.

And frankly I'm not adverse to speculating that within
the missing 96% of the universe, that there is something
available to serve these functions..

On the other hand, it's also possible that there is nearly
PURE 'technology' at work here.. we may be simualtions
in a quantum computer of some alien race.. weird rays
from the Pelleides may be hitting us every 28 days or
whatever.. maybe just fleets of break away civilization
or ET fleets projecting nonsense into our brains.. or
solid photons.. or all of the above..

I can't prove things one way or another..

But like Vallee I have a lifetime of data at my disposal
which disagrees with all those theories.. and that's
why i'm investigating the tangents that I'm investigating..
just like others do their thing.

Thanks for the good reply.

Kev

a reply to: SentientEruditeSapien

Yup we are toddlers in a stupefying vastness.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Found this quote on Retro Causality KPB

Retrocausal models have forced physicists to reconsider long-standing taboos. In affording a role for future events in the present day, it joins a line of thought stretching to Plato and Aristotle. They argued that nature, like man, is organized around final ends and goals. Just as the purpose of the baker is to bake, the purpose of the raindrop is to fall, and of the seed to grow into a tree.

nautil.us...

I reckon it fits in with Kali Yuga and time cycles. That's why i stated previously that this could be our time to move onwards and upwards. The time cycle is repeated bringing human beings to spiritual evolution at their appointed time.

Apparently the symbolism of the Elite goes back thousands of years, suggesting to me that they have their allotted place in all of this. It could reasonably be argued that they are always the same forces or being's that carry out the destruction that brings us to our senses. Hence the repeated symbolism.

Let's face it, if the World wasn't in such a state just now how many people would still have their eye's closed and be traveling through a life that may seems fine and good to them but spiritually get's them nowhere?

We needed a short sharp shock and that is what we are being given. The Devil (or whatever you want to call it, them) is unleashed at the end of every time cycle to do his thing. Some wise people have in the past stated that everything is fine, everything is in it's place. When reconciled within time cycle of spiritual evolution then you could see how this would be correct.

Most people have felt this, it's called a peak experience. When these occur you get that knowing that everything is fine and very much in it's place. And they are probably right. Good and Evil may not exist, just constant perfection! No need to worry.

originally posted by: DrunkYogi
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Found this quote on Retro Causality KPB

Retrocausal models have forced physicists to reconsider long-standing taboos. In affording a role for future events in the present day, it joins a line of thought stretching to Plato and Aristotle. They argued that nature, like man, is organized around final ends and goals. Just as the purpose of the baker is to bake, the purpose of the raindrop is to fall, and of the seed to grow into a tree.

nautil.us...

I reckon it fits in with Kali Yuga and time cycles. That's why i stated previously that this could be our time to move onwards and upwards. The time cycle is repeated bringing human beings to spiritual evolution at their appointed time.

Apparently the symbolism of the Elite goes back thousands of years, suggesting to me that they have their allotted place in all of this. It could reasonably be argued that they are always the same forces or being's that carry out the destruction that brings us to our senses. Hence the repeated symbolism.

Let's face it, if the World wasn't in such a state just now how many people would still have their eye's closed and be traveling through a life that may seems fine and good to them but spiritually get's them nowhere?

We needed a short sharp shock and that is what we are being given. The Devil (or whatever you want to call it, them) is unleashed at the end of every time cycle to do his thing. Some wise people have in the past stated that everything is fine, everything is in it's place. When reconciled within time cycle of spiritual evolution then you could see how this would be correct.

Most people have felt this, it's called a peak experience. When these occur you get that knowing that everything is fine and very much in it's place. And they are probably right. Good and Evil may not exist, just constant perfection! No need to worry.

Yes, I have had those 'peak experiences where for minutes or hours, all the
boundaries *seem* to melt away.. matter.. energy.. time..structure.... all
silly concepts... way beyond deathless... You might see it in my personality..
I just can't get worried about petty nonsense.. which describes most things,
but yet not one dot is out of place or not important.

*But* taking something back from *that* is not 'easy'. It's too much. The gulf
is too wide between *that* and *this*.

Most people don't seem to ponder; what if 'so-called apparent free will'
were universal? If every atom, every being, so to speak had massive
'power' and 'free will'?

you'd get a reality where everything was an emergent process of everything
else.. there would be few if any boundaries...you'd find that 99% of all
this activity cancelled itself out (equal and opposite) and what you'd
wind up with is what we have... where it is total buffoonery to even
utter words such as 'good' or 'evil', or 'god' for that matter.

In such a reality, the best question might be, "how can I be useful?" rather
than "what is true?" --- that latter question would also be a bit silly.

Thanks for thinking,

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I reckon we have a little bit of free will, not too much. Does this not actually lean towards the existence of a creator? If life was just chaos it would lean towards not being a creator. Everything would be insane, no order. Which would lead a person to say life was random, why would there be order when there was no creator to order the Universe in the first place? Science is heading towards the acceptance of intelligent design whether it wants to or not.

a reply to: DrunkYogi

In states of nirvikalpa samahdi as a yogi
would say. ..there is no 'god' or 'not god'
such questions appear infantile in that
state.

Humans yearn for certainty....and are social
creatures who need to see things from a
perspective of hierarchical being structure.

That is human need....only reality doesn't care
about human need much at all. ....close to
zero.

This subject would require a thousand pages
and most of a lifetime to work through.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

This subject would require a thousand pages and most of a lifetime to work through.

That's why they say it's better to say nothing at all. And why when you have a peek experience and you start to analyze it's gone. The Ego must die at some point for us to evolve. The constant chatter and duality takes us away from our real selves, silence is golden.

Anyway sorry KPB, i am getting of the thread subject somewhat. I will stick to it in future.

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
....someone like Tony Blair for example is highly likely to be a Jinn... It's no guarantee, but possible!!!

Don't know if it's any way relevant but Blair was a chorister in Durham Cathedral. I've seen a blue light floating around in Durham Cathedral and I wondered if it could be capable of entering a human to take control of their behaviour.

a reply to: Kester

Blair is a greedy psychopath. Other wise known by his Elite name a useful idiot. No need for him to be anything else really. If the Devil asked him to sell his soul he would and that is most likely what happened.

a reply to: DrunkYogi

The Jinn grins.

Go to 0:42

a reply to: Kester

He is a strange critter right enough!

a reply to: DrunkYogi

Start a new post if you want....

I would but as I've said I don't want to be
excessively associated with 'spirituality'
which I'm certain is a con job....

But it's possible to engage in positive
discussion and practice if one abandons
the 'control loop programming' inherent
in all existing systems.

ALL human institutions are 'infiltrated' by
the 'control loop'.

IMHO

Kev

originally posted by: Kester

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
....someone like Tony Blair for example is highly likely to be a Jinn... It's no guarantee, but possible!!!

Don't know if it's any way relevant but Blair was a chorister in Durham Cathedral. I've seen a blue light floating around in Durham Cathedral and I wondered if it could be capable of entering a human to take control of their behaviour.

IMHO pretty much ALL humans are infested with baby 'orbs' - they are as ubiquitous as human
intestinal flora (good bacteria).

But yah. ...'adult orbs' especially ones that have
'reincarnated' with various power hungry and
insane humans (blood line humans if you wish)
can be really foul....

I had one that insisted on being involved with
me a year ago....pesky thing....but I wasn't
interested in playing.

I'd only post this in skunkworks...

Kev