Crowd-Sourcing v/s Crowd-Sorcery

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posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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DEFINITIONS

Crowd-sourcing is an incredible tool.


Crowd-Sourcing

Crowdsourcing is the process of obtaining needed services, ideas, or content by soliciting contributions from a large group of people, and especially from an online community…

…Coined in 2005, the word "crowdsourcing" can apply to a wide range of activities.[3] …(and) can also apply to ….a general search for answers, solutions, …



Crowd-Sorcery: aka Social Engineering, Macro-social marketing, Social Manipulation

Using communications technologies to trick people into thinking they're part of a "crowd-sourcing" project, but actually using them to redirect others' attention and hide the truth by planting key bits of misinformation and disinformation. In the least, this serves to "bury" important information while "burning out" public interest.


….we are entering a world where marketers will have to make one of two choices as the Web makes its final infiltration into our lives:

* Committing to clear, honest transactions which build on the results of word-of-mouth generated by the quality of the products or services being marketed

* Committing to socially engineered transactions, with a focus on using psychology, sociology, behavioral economics and other ingredients required for the manipulation of publics


Marketing Politicians Through Social Engineering

Values and Lifestyle Marketing

Employing computer technology and psychologists trained in self-improvement techniques, the public relations industry adapted to this new individualism and preoccupation with self-expression with “values and lifestyle marketing.”

One of their main strategies was to blur the line between advertising and journalism by incorporating three key messages into news reporting: selfishness is good, the needs of individuals are more important than the needs of society and that only business can properly satisfy individual needs.


Macro-social marketing and social engineering: a systems approach

The purpose of this paper is to show how macro-social marketing and social engineering can be integrated...

The social marketer can understand their role within the system and appreciate that they are potentially part of precipitating circumstances that make society susceptible to change.


Revealing the top secrets of social engineering in marketing

The world of sales and marketing is chock full of social engineering, NLP and manipulation techniques. …Lets analyze a few...

The first and one of the most effective methods is redirection. The same way a magician or street hustler will "redirect" your attention to your right forearm as he slips the watch off your left wrist is the way marketers will try to redirect your attention… What is redirection? Simply redefining the problem…. Marketers use it to move you away from the real problem and into a more controllable area. [Often by shifting the "blame."]

…next method that is used often is agreement framing.

…next method to look at is a form of redirection using the BUT and YET words. Using this method many marketers add or delete themselves our thoughts. Here’s one method of doing this. The technique is simply a modified "redefine" that we've already discussed. Using the same “it’s not about X (BUT or YET) it’s about Y.”

…When you use YET in a sentence, it creates movement to the next thought. Using this pattern, you can connect two dissimilar thoughts into one coherent thought. …

….next method is a power-house. This method is used to change someone's whole frame of reference. Wouldn’t you like to change someone’s point of view? Changing people’s frame of reference to see things in a new way is a powerful tool. One technique is to use words like “notice”, “see”, “aware” or “realize” as they imply presupposed truths.

….Social Engineering, or manipulating people to do what you want, has been used in sales and marketing... well since sales and marketing have been around.




posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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Good point. And we see many examples of both right here at ATS, don't we?

And often times the crowd-sorcery team ridicules the crowd-sourcing team ad tedium and ad nauseam, apparently forgetting the point of crowd-sourcing, particularly during breaking events and especially for those looking at things with a conspiracy perspective, where sometimes the most ridiculous or trivial detail or observation can lead to something bigger, a greater connection. Crowd-sorcery, aka manipulation and diversion. Crowd-sorcery is pretty tunnel-visioned too and relies on gullibility.

Because, as we've seen thousands of times, it isn't necessarily only what is reported sometimes, it's how and by whom that is often the more revealing thing. And that is precisely why it is important to post things as they are happening and what the sources were, sometimes before they are disappeared too. Screenshots, links, photos. You name it. Even perceptions and random thoughts. And yes even speculation and gut reactions. So we can distinguish between the two. If there are 20 takes on the same Reuters story, post them all. See what's the same, what's been added or left out.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but crowd-sourcing is not a debate but information gathering for later discussion or debate or piecing together. A powerful tool and manifestation thereof, indeed. For good or for evil.

In a way the entire internet is one huge arena for both.

edit on 8/9/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 10:04 AM
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next method is a power-house. This method is used to change someone's whole frame of reference. Wouldn’t you like to change someone’s point of view? Changing people’s frame of reference to see things in a new way is a powerful tool. One technique is to use words like “notice”, “see”, “aware” or “realize” as they imply presupposed truths.

Double edged sword, imo. "Suggesting" to others a new frame of reference that they may not of previously held is a way of shattering illusion, delusion and denial.

Were you aware… or, you do realize… can be used in a healthy way, too.

Another one I am aware of recently to end conversation about something is the "tired of hearing about it". For example, I'm so exhausted of hearing about conflict in the Middle East.

Read that, lets stop talking about it.

edit on 9-8-2014 by intrptr because: bb code



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 10:05 AM
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I have tried "crowd sourcing" thru indygogo and kickstarter for my documentary projects.
I never had much luck raising money; mainly because it takes an incredible effort to use social media as the
platform to promote your project.

However I do know some producers that have made a lot of money thru kickstarter.

I have no idea about how it could be used for cultural manipulation.
edit on 9-8-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
I have tried "crowd sourcing" .....

I have no idea about how it could be used for cultural manipulation.


To learn some basics, follow the links in the OP - or run a search on social engineering.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: soficrow
Well if you think about it our whole western education system is a most serious form of crowd sorcery: "Learn this, think this way, write like this, like that, think in these ways, use these frames of reference, apply these methods, construct these ideas, formulate this concept, go in this direction, strive for these goals" .... Few recover from it. :/



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: soficrow

Its going to be a big deal. I've heard the idea of "have engines" thrown around as a replacement to search engines - the idea being that that after observing web habits of a user for long enough, you can predict what they will want and give it to them automatically in many cases. This becomes a double edged sword, as search engines begin to give you what you didn't even know you wanted...

However, as tough brick and mortar realities hit the world, the need for web services to play an actual organization role in our efforts, to tell us what to do in the physical world, will become more and more important. The key challenge web programmers are facing now is how to do that in a way that fosters informed collaboration, rather than manipulation.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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a reply to: tridentblue

I absolutely HATE those things! ....I do a huge variety of searches on totally different topics for completely different reasons. Because "have engines" make the assumption that peoples' rationales and motives are consistent and predictable, those engines are not just useless to me, they greatly obstruct my goals.

...I clean my cookies and cache regularly. It helps, but not completely.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:04 AM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

....correct me if I'm wrong, but crowd-sourcing is not a debate but information gathering for later discussion or debate or piecing together.


That's a "brainstorming" rule - on the net, computers compile published info for later discussion or debate. Crowd-sourcing generally pulls unpublished information, personal accounts, perspectives etc. ....Crowd-sorcery sets up a conclusion, then generates a herd mentality in support of that conclusion. Anyone with an alternate perspective gets dissed, if not attacked outright.

....Such crowd-sorcery can be data-mined for a variety of purposes: to start and promote a political campaign; id key talking points for cultural manipulation; develop scripts, storylines and dialogue, etc. The key difference between crowd-sourcing and crowd-sorcery is that crowd-sorcery participants are discouraged from offering real analysis or opinions that differ from the established message - the goal is to develop the theme, not change it.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: soficrow
But crowdsourcing is nothing but a very large brainstorming session. And it's not just personal or unpublshed. The power is that people exposed to different things, be they personal and unpublished or collective and published or what have you bringing it together to get to the right place. It's what you make it and how you use it that's the difference.

I agreed about the crowdsorcery. Someone's always going to weaponize, take advantage of due to greed, and otherwise abuse everything.
edit on 8/10/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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So your saying that Kickstarter i funded for a game genre I wanted to see return. Manipulated me into wanting something I have wanted for around 10 years. Even though I have been saying for ten years before I heard of Kickstarter that I wanted to see this type of game return. I think your not giving people enough credit and giving crowd sourcing too much credit. How can you trick people to be part of crowd sourcing. Is it a trick when you get an actual product that you probably wanted for a while, usually, at the end of it.

Crowd sourcing is just people funding something instead of corporations. How is that bad.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:35 AM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy

Not what I'm saying at all! ...Crowd-sourcing is GREAT! But there's a difference between crowd-sourcing and crowd-sorcery, which is manipulation.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:38 AM
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a reply to: soficrow

I see its clever word play, a bit of crowd-sorcery of your own. Carry on.........
edit on 10-8-2014 by karmicecstasy because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: soficrow
But crowdsourcing is nothing but a very large brainstorming session. And it's not just personal or unpublshed. The power is that people exposed to different things, be they personal and unpublished or collective and published or what have you bringing it together to get to the right place. It's what you make it and how you use it that's the difference.

I agreed about the crowdsorcery. Someone's always going to weaponize, take advantage of due to greed, and otherwise abuse everything.


Real crowd-sourcing allows for differing opinions - one of the big signs that what is (mis)represented as crowd-sourcing is actually crowd sorcery.

...The point of this thread is to analyze the difference between participating in legitimate crowd-sourcing and being manipulated and herded by crowd sorcery.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:40 AM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy

No. ...The point of this thread is to analyze the difference between participating in legitimate crowd-sourcing and being unknowingly manipulated and herded by crowd sorcery. Two different things. And the process is called "deconstructing the media."


ETA NOTE: Early on, "deconstructing the media" focused on the MSM. Now though, we need to recognize that "social media" is the big player - social engineers and marketers are all over it, and using it.












edit on 10/8/14 by soficrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:47 AM
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originally posted by: funkadeliaaaa
a reply to: soficrow
Well if you think about it our whole western education system is a most serious form of crowd sorcery: "Learn this, think this way, write like this, like that, think in these ways, use these frames of reference, apply these methods, construct these ideas, formulate this concept, go in this direction, strive for these goals" .... Few recover from it. :/


Absolutely. Don't need to think about it. Have known it for a long, long time. S&



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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a reply to: soficrow

I understand what your doing and what your trying to educate about. However crowd-sourcing has nothing to do with crowd-sorcery except that they sound alike. Its a clever bit of wordplay. Crowd-sorcery is using all social media to manipulate a target demographic. Crowd-sourcing is about people coming together to fund something. So yes you are using your own bit of crowd-sorcery.



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy


However crowd-sourcing has nothing to do with crowd-sorcery except that they sound alike. Its a clever bit of wordplay. Crowd-sorcery is using all social media to manipulate a target demographic. Crowd-sourcing is about people coming together to fund something. So yes you are using your own bit of crowd-sorcery.


As stated in the OP, "Crowd-sourcing is an incredible tool." And it's about a helluvalot more than funding: it's also about "obtaining needed services, ideas, or content."

"Crowd sorcery" sounds the same because it's my own made up word to describe the sciences of Social Engineering, Macro-social Marketing, and Social Manipulation as currently used on the Net, especially in social media.

....I really do not get your resistance here - the concept is pretty much the whole basis of this forum. As I understand it, "Deconstructing Disinformation" is supposed to be about learning how we are manipulated by the media so we can mount adequate defences and not get taken in.


Crowd-Sourcing

Crowdsourcing is the process of obtaining needed services, ideas, or content by soliciting contributions from a large group of people, and especially from an online community…

…Coined in 2005, the word "crowdsourcing" can apply to a wide range of activities.[3] …(and) can also apply to ….a general search for answers, solutions, …



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:53 AM
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a reply to: soficrow

There is no resistance to what you are saying. I completely understand what your are saying and doing.




"Crowd sorcery" sounds the same because it's my own made up word to describe the sciences of Social Engineering, Macro-social Marketing, and Social Manipulation as currently used on the Net, especially in social media.


Exactly so it is word play. The only reason to put the definition of crowd-sourcing before your definition of crowd-sorcery is to point out said word play.




As I understand it, "Deconstructing Disinformation" is supposed to be about learning how we are manipulated by the media so we can mount adequate defences and not get taken in.


Go read the title of your thread. The title of your thread is crowd-sourcing vs crowd-sorcery. Clearly you are not saying the two are the same. Now go read my first post. Do you see what I did there. I knew the premise of your thread. I knew you were not saying crow-sourcing was the same as crowd-sorcery. I manipulated you into saying exactly what I wanted you to say in your response, simply so I could point out your use of crowd-sorcery in my second post.



I see its clever word play, a bit of crowd-sorcery of your own. Carry on.........


I thought you would get it. Since this sub forum is about, as you say,



"Deconstructing Disinformation" learning how we are manipulated by the media so we can mount adequate defences and not get taken in.


I was using crowd-sorcery of my own. Which by the way is a word that has been in use for some time. Google it if you do not believe me. Just like you are using crowd-sorcery. Both of us on a micro scale of course.

So again there is no resistance to what you are saying. I get it completely. Do you?



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 08:55 AM
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a reply to: karmicecstasy

Oops. I didn't know "crowd sorcery" was already in use. ...My concern is with Social Engineering, Macro-social marketing, Social Manipulation. The fact that you choose to play self-aggrandizing minds games is of little concern to me. But thanks for disclosing and clarifying your motives.


Here Come the Crowd-Sorcerers: How Technology is Disrupting the Humanitarian Space and How Easy It Is

Posted on July 27, 2010

I’ve recently been cc’d on an email thread in which a humanitarian group has started to “air out some latent issues and frustrations” vis-a-vis the use of crowdsourcing in emergencies. I applaud them for speaking up and credit them for coining the fantastic term “crowd-sorcerers” which is brilliant!





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