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The Rockets of Hamas in 2014

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posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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Good Evening my fellow ATS'ers! It has certainly been busy in the news cycles lately, hasn't it? Who would ever have imagined that open war in not one but 3 different nations across the Middle East for 3 relatively separate fights with the FSA, ISIS and Israel/Palestine could be raging at the same time? It's quite a mess to be sure. Some refugees literally can't find a compass direction where death isn't a distinct possibility. There is something very very wrong about that.

Now this isn't a thread about the politics of it or the right and wrong of it. There are many...many threads to cover every conceivable aspect of those issues. This is simply a look at what are being called rockets and have a basic set of numbers for perspective.

I will start with what the majority of rockets being fired consist of. This conflict had thirty five hundred rockets fired when this past cease-fire had started. I have no clue where the tally is now in real time. Even terrorist organizations with the backing of multiple nation states cannot afford to just throw their best weapons into an effective anti-air network, and so they have not been. They have been making liberal use of a local resource though.



These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

This next class is a step up, and we get into what will easily kill with a respectable radius if the compass line shooting Hamas is doing happens to drop a warhead onto something soft. (Israeli homes are required to have blast protection rooms as a code requirement, as I learned in putting this together.)



This is also where the weapon systems start showing creativity and adaptation to use. Original designs of the two indicated there were never intended to be fired off a rail or a launch rack raised from a hole in the ground. Yet, this is how they've been adapted to function with mixed results. None of the rockets are guided, and that is a key thing.

Israel has over 7 million residents, and I don't say this for a violin of sympathy, but to note.......those people need to eat something in that very small land. That makes a virtual checkerboard of growing plots and fields wherever it works to nurture into something. A lot of space to miss for blind shooting these rockets and where plenty of rockets end up. In fact, that lack of guidance is what makes the next ones mere "rockets" and not Missiles.

Slap a guidance system on the next 3, and you'd have a short range missile more than a long range rocket/rocket artillery.

Related Links:

Is Hamas Using Chinese Rockets? Not Exactly, Say Experts (2012 Information about WS-1E Rocket use)




posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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These next two rocket classes are a point of controversy. Some have claimed or interpreted statements to mean Iran supplied physical Fajr-3 and 5 missiles to the Hamas fighters. Perhaps they did. However, they certainly didn't hand deliver or smuggle carry all that have been fired. Too many, and they didn't have to. In 2012, conflicting statements came out on whether Iran supplied them as Israel first saw them make a major appearance from Gaza in battle. (Dates of first use in these refer to Hamas use, not first field use by any force who has them).



Frankly, I don't care who ya are. 99 lbs of boom is going to be a bust. Permanently and for more than a few feet in all directions, too. Sitting in a home office or family room, it's hard to imagine creating and largely manhandling the pieces to assemble and launch scores of these across two conflicts thus far.

There is a factor to help distinguish which rockets are which though (aside from the debris, as nothing ever just 'disintegrates' entirely). The range can't be squeaked out of a Grad rocket to mimic the Fajr and the Fajr 3 falls short on the performance of it's slightly bigger brother. The Fajr-5.



This is the one with the most controversy I have a couple stories to help address it for those interested in that side line point.

Iran supplied Hamas with Fajr-5 missile technology (2012 Story)

Iran Says It Gave Missile Technology to Hamas - ABC News (2014 Story)

The Fajr-5's are apparently what are coming to be regular drops over Tel Aiv and that segment up north for distance. That's near 200 pounds and comes in a variety of options for designs to use in warheads. High Explosive, Smoke, Fragmentation and more.

Of course, locally made by Iranian tech spec sheets or not? These are not Qassam rockets. These suckers are BIG. I'm thinking about them being sent up in some ad-hoc set up to get it done. (perhaps, also no wonder there are some spectacular failures occasionally too)

Onto the latest step up........



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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This last one is what grabbed my attention. They fired enough to confirm they work and they hold bearing to get where they are sent to glide down to. This rocket is also one I found a lot of question as to the total numbers of. (THIS one isn't a local manufacture. It takes an arms industry) Israel caught one ship with 40 of them they are sure were headed for Gaza. Others, including the U.S., had doubts those were for Hamas.

They have now been used though, so the fact they have them hidden away somewhere is enough to know. I think from an objective view? I'd think this one being introduced is what put the gleam of absolute conviction in the Israeli eyes.



The militaryedge site numbers which are partially represented there were a bit on the high side.

These are a couple of the stories citing the specific day and raid which the 302's were used in:

Syrian-made M302 long-range rocket fired by Hamas at the Israeli city of Hadera

New Rockets downed by Iron Dome system over Tel Aviv

Hamas Firing China-Designed, Syria-Made M-302 Rockets: Israel

It's taken some careful thought about how to approach this last aspect, but I believe it's so key and critical to understanding the determination of both sides here, it would be a major gap to not highlight what the longest and largest now allow Hamas to take the shot at.....and they took the shot almost at their first opportunity.

Right or wrong (I mentioned I meant to stay away from that), it raised the tactical stakes to a documented threat which had never been proven this way before. Dimona is more than JUST a power station and Hamas certainly knows that.

First, they say it themselves about credit and many stories have run like this: Hamas: We attempted to hit the nuclear reactor in Dimona

Then, Israel described it: Israel intercepts rockets fired at Tel Aviv and Dimona, slams Gaza sites

Even Iran's news agency threw a story or two into the ring: Gaza rockets strike near Israel’s nuclear reactor

In my opinion, the only winning move to this "game" is not to play. Thankfully, it was a miss at Dimona this time and a second chance.

A second chance to see peace break out. Not a second chance to adjust range and fire for better effect. Both sides are shooting very real and very lethal weapons, after all. Very normal people are downrange from both combatants and the dead know only one thing. It was better to be alive.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 10:00 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

So these are the rockets that are considered fireworks and made from parts found in a hardware store. I have been saying since my original post on this conflict you can't buy parts for these rockets parts at home depot. If you could, I probably would have already. It's propaganda from Hamas supporters, and somehow it's ok Israel can shoot them down but isn't allowed to retaliate.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 10:15 PM
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Isn't the real question..

Why do the folks allow these hot spot regions to be ruled by the influence of outsiders? on either side...

Who created this hateful condition... and who keeps fueling it as a "go to" pressure point to enrich folks who can develop the next deterrent?

Why don't we focus on the incubators of this continued crisis... and not on the folks who are fodder for the chess players?

It doesn't take a Harvard degree to realize that folks of all walks of life, want to live their own lives, raise families, in relative Peace...

Who is really responsible for keeping that from happening? The regular folks in those regions? I think not...



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:39 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000


I just want to point out in reference to the swaths of land to gtiw food comment. Its worth noting there is a ton of open land good for farming in the west bank that Israel refuses to let palestinians use. That land could very well be farmed by palestinians and sold at market to both palestinians and istaelis. Instead israel turns extra land in WB into firing zones and allows illegal settlers to move there.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:41 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Lol Wrabbit, I was actually putting together this exact topic because of all the misinformation that is out there regarding these rockets. I swear some people truly think they are some kind of atom bomb. With unlimited range. I'll be sad that you beat me to my first actual thread but I'm happy that there it was at least you that covered it. You did it a bit too well though. I have nothing to really left to add. I'll just say good job and move on.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I often wonder if many of the missiles actually carry warheads which militants would probably be reluctant to waste. If the rockets are likely to be shot down then shooting duds to be intercepted by expensive iron dome rocketa would be successful against israels finances.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:46 PM
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originally posted by: MarlinGrace
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

So these are the rockets that are considered fireworks and made from parts found in a hardware store. I have been saying since my original post on this conflict you can't buy parts for these rockets parts at home depot. If you could, I probably would have already. It's propaganda from Hamas supporters, and somehow it's ok Israel can shoot them down but isn't allowed to retaliate.



For the most part they are. The small rockets the op refers to as similar to giant bottle rockets are made of local materials (as stated in the op) and may or may not contain warheads.

The larger rockets are likely rare as they require longer set up, and would naturally be in short supply.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:48 PM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000

I actually read an israeli source after one of tge psuedo ceasefires (one between israel and egypt with no hamas) was broken that it was broken by hamas artillery, but it said they had extremely limited range compared to the rockets.

?

That is opposite of what the graphic indicates.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:54 PM
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a reply to: MarlinGrace

I'd say it's fine for Israel to retaliate. My problem is when you retaliate on schools, infrastructure, civilians, and children with precision weapons that can be stuffed up a fly ass at 20 miles. There is absolutely no reason for 2000+ innocent deaths. Israeli leaders, media and educators are calling for genocide. They have Israeli citizens sitting outside watching people die while cheering and eating popcorn. They are putting out articles sporting titles like, "when genocide is ok". Come on, do you really agree with this?

These rockets are compared to fireworks very often and that's certainly untrue. However many supporters of the horrors happening in Gaza don't understand the actual firepower of them. Nor do they understand that they are made from fertilizer and sugar. I have linked a video in a few other threads showing the explosive power of 3 pounds of c4 (a dedicated explosive) inside a BMW and it's not that impressive. 3.3 pounds of c4 is equal to 1.5Kg of explosives but the main point is that c4 is quite different from potassium chloride and highly low grade sugar.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 12:09 AM
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Is this like target Israelis porn?

No seriously?



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 12:15 AM
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originally posted by: TinfoilTP
Is this like target Israelis porn?

No seriously?

Yes the graphics were produced by Wrabbit. Nice graphics.

edit on 9-8-2014 by intrptr because: portion redacted



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 12:43 AM
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a reply to: Wrabbit2000


originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

Mannn, thats what Ive been saying. Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.

Theyre acting as though "Iron Dome" is preventing injuries from these "rocket" attacks.

No one in the media is mentioning the fact that these so called "rockets" didnt do any damage before "Iron Dome"...

Done get me wrong, if a burnt out firework, I mean "rocket", landed on someone's head, it would probably hurt, maybe even burn a little.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000


originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

Mannn, thats what Ive been saying. Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.

Theyre acting as though "Iron Dome" is preventing injuries from these "rocket" attacks.

No one in the media is mentioning the fact that these so called "rockets" didnt do any damage before "Iron Dome"...

Done get me wrong, if a burnt out firework, I mean "rocket", landed on someone's head, it would probably hurt, maybe even burn a little.


That post was just sick.
yes, sick



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 02:28 AM
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Wrabbit my thanks for a well thought out thread, information that is verifiable and no politics involved .......Yet.....
As you say, these rockets ARE deadly.

My former wife and kids are on the receiving end of these rockets/missiles, as is at least one member of ATS that I know of.

When the sirens sound rest assured they aren't out there with baseball bats waiting to 'knock 'em back to Gaza' they run to their safe rooms and as teenagers these days do, they pull out their cell phones and start texting all their friends, to make sure they are safe.

This is my main source of information on the conflict, along with a few texts from a Palestinian friend of mine living in Gaza. What can I say ? It's one big worrying mess.

Thank you for a cool head in a very heated topic.
A well deserved S&F
If I could applaud this thread I would.

Of course there is yet the Palestinian side to look at with objectivity, not the Hamas side but the man in the street. May peace spontaneously break out for all those involved..........................naive I know but a wish I hold dear to my heart.

Cody



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 02:33 AM
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Make no mistake, these rockets will all kill you.

Good work Wrabbit. S&F



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 03:03 AM
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originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: Wrabbit2000


originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
These are the rockets that literally do look like BIG bottle rockets or more accurately, the higher end of the Western Amateur model rocket classes. Clubs in some of the Western US deserts launch rockets a couple meters in height at times and they are impressive. I can easily believe they are home made and mass produced in the way the numbers indicate. Nothing to 'em.

Mannn, thats what Ive been saying. Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.

Theyre acting as though "Iron Dome" is preventing injuries from these "rocket" attacks.

No one in the media is mentioning the fact that these so called "rockets" didnt do any damage before "Iron Dome"...

Done get me wrong, if a burnt out firework, I mean "rocket", landed on someone's head, it would probably hurt, maybe even burn a little.





Our backyard fireworks put their "rockets" to shame.


Really ?

Your backyard fireworks can do this can they ?

Source

Cody
edit on 9/8/14 by cody599 because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 03:31 AM
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originally posted by: rockn82
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Lol Wrabbit, I was actually putting together this exact topic because of all the misinformation that is out there regarding these rockets. I swear some people truly think they are some kind of atom bomb. With unlimited range. I'll be sad that you beat me to my first actual thread but I'm happy that there it was at least you that covered it. You did it a bit too well though. I have nothing to really left to add. I'll just say good job and move on.


I may be delusional because it is 4:25 am eastern time here but my take on the ops thread only reinforces what many others, including myself, have concluded...

These aren't your average Bodega bottle rockets as some may claim. This s# takes off limbs and such.

Jmho though.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 03:53 AM
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a reply to: TiedDestructor

No you're not deluded

This is a very real scenario, people die, these thing are designed to kill indiscriminately. As the OP said




Both sides are shooting very real and very lethal weapons, after all. Very normal people are downrange from both combatants and the dead know only one thing. It was better to be alive.


Cody






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