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Hypocrisy and philosophy

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posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 07:05 PM
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Most people I know, and I know this may or may not be you so please don't say "BUT THAT'S NOT ME!", would probably lie unless they were "really" your friend when they are confronted with an awkward situation regarding the opinion of the askee in regards to something that the asker has. I know that sounds confusing, but in a more specific way: your friend asks you if you like his or her new jacket. Do you tell them the truth? Do you value honesty? Do you value the friendship of the person to whom you are referring?

in this rock-and-hard-place dilemma, you have two options: 1. to lie and to maintain the good graces of your friend or 2. tell the truth because you A) care about the person and are trying to help her or B) something else that I'm too lazy to think of right now. In either case, assuming you are empathetic in the slightest, care about the friend you imagined for this scenario and value honesty, you have been inconsistent with your thoughts about yourself. "I'm an honest person" and "I just lied", so I'm told, are conflicting thoughts in regards to cognitive dissonance theory. You can justify it to yourself however you want to, either by reducing the significance of the lie (it was a "little white lie") or you can try to justify the lie by saying you were helping your friend (or something else, obviously). All of this is only correlational with the real reason you did it, however. If you think you actually know the real reasons you do things, take an intro to social psychology class at a college or watch this one[1] on Youtube. It's free and is bound to change your perception on people as a whole if you are open to knowing such things. But what is learned can't be unlearned, that's my only ominous warning.

I'm a hypocrite because I don't actually think I care about telling people and I know it will all eventually all be for naught in the grand scheme of things. Hell, even in the small scheme of things. In two weeks, this will just be another rant I made, barely memorable in the slightest.

The only solution to this that I can think of, which doesn't actually resolve this, is a hierarchy of values that (in theory) you memorize and logically follow through to the end (or you'd be a hypocrite for that, too) in your day-to-day life. This, however, doesn't resolve the dilemma. It merely ignores the dilemma entirely, with the added bonus of giving you a reason for ignoring that dilemma.

The point of this post (or lack thereof) was to say that there really isn't any reason to call someone a hypocrite except to shame them for not doing something or doing something that you think you thought they think they should be doing but aren't. Thank you for reading, if you read it.

[1]: www.youtube.com...




posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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Do you value honesty? Do you value the friendship of the person to whom you are referring?
I wonder at a friendship that cannot take the truth. If we need to lie to protect the friendship, then what does it matter anyway. Friends that cannot bear the truth between them are not, in my book, friends. Rather they are just momentarily useful tools to self deception.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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a reply to: zackli


to lie and to maintain the good graces of your friend or

This is not the true blue definition of a friend. You shouldn't have to lie to maintain a friendship. If so, then that other person just wants to be placed on a pedestal.

You could use some tact…

Ask, for real? And wait for his response…

Then look away as you say, yah its great (shrug). This leaves you both in good graces and less than enthusiastic.

Or (dismissively) yah, its great, can we get going?

Anyone shallow enough to depend on others opinions and then reject them is confused anyway and less than worthy of your friendship.

edit to add: Whoops I see its a her:

Say, yah its nice and shrug while maintaining eye contact. This means you think its nice ( no big deal). Girls want to blend, right?
edit on 8-8-2014 by intrptr because: additional



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:15 PM
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I am a rule consequentialist. It is an idea started by Ross back in the 20's. The idea is that an action is good if everyone does it and it is good.

If I am running late for work and forgot my subway fare, I could jump the turnstile. If everyone jumped there would be no public transit.

Similarly it is good to keep your word. However if you see an injured man on your way to meet your friend who is waiting on you, and you stop and help the man. That action is good even though you left your friend waiting. (Imagine this scenario before cell phones and other instant communication.

Things such as honesty, beneficence, non-harm, and loyalty are all good. But real world situations mean judgement calls, and in my opinion some calls are harder, but you can't say that all good actions are equal. It is more of an intuition based on your ethical standpoint.

So lie or not, what would you say to the SS officer who asked you if you are hiding any Jews, and you are...

Ethics is muddy.
edit on 8-8-2014 by Sillyosaurus because:



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 10:06 PM
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Will watch you video in a bit

Anyone who tells a friend " actually your jacket , the way it flares out like that at the bottom , only makes your hips look even bigger" is an asshole.

If your shopping for clothes and she comes out of the changing room and asks " honest opinion" . Then ok, you can say nah, it's not the best on you. That way she doesn't get something that looks unflattering . Once it's been purchased it changes this, because it means SHE LIKED IT, she liked it enough to buy it and is wearing it now feeling pretty good. Then you come along and call her fat ass.

A friend who says " your husband us cheating on you" . Asshole.

Here's your pie plate back. " oh how was it?" " to be honest, it tasted like #" . Not nice.

To be critical in this manner is just heartless and cruel.

I had a friend like this, always insulting me, too honest. I was hurt everytime I hung out with her. I got rid of her, for the sake of my mental health and physical well being. Others disliked this about her as well.

The polite thing to do is never give unsolicited advise.
If it's asked of, then only you and your friend know what's ok to to say to each other.

Warning a friend so they aren't about to hurt themselves is different.

There really are no rules to this.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 10:38 PM
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When friends ask you for advice or ask a question
in regards to how they look? Or does this taste ok?
Or do you think I'm doing the right thing? Etc etc
they usually already know the answer.
They are just seeking confirmation.
I find the best response to these questions is to recycle
the question as the answer.
Example : Well, do you feel comfortable in the outfit?
Does your instinct tell you to continue in this direction..
and so on..

You become more of a sounding board to them and
this helps them make the decision based on their own
thoughts and instincts.
You are still being a good friend and helping them
find a solution without influencing the results.


In regards to hypocrisy, I don't see that giving a point
of view , that may offend, is considered hypocritical.

Hypocrisy, to me, is claiming to believe in something
Wholeheartedly, but living and being active in the
complete opposite to what you claim.

Or manipulating a belief or system in ways it will
benefit you while judging others who do the same



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 10:52 PM
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originally posted by: zackli your friend asks you if you like his or her new jacket. Do you tell them the truth?



sort of. if i didn't like it i might say ' well if that's your thing, cool '.

if pressed, i might add ' no i'm just into ( different type of jacket ), but i guess you know what you like........?'

if we both liked the choice of jacket everything would of course be rosy.

i guess my answer is, i'd lie through my teeth.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: violet



Will watch you video in a bit


It's actually a link to a playlist. If you want to watch a lecture series on social psychology, that's fine, but it's not something you casually do. There are 16 lectures, each an hour in length. I guess you COULD do it, but that would take most of an entire day.



The polite thing to do is never give unsolicited advise.
If it's asked of, then only you and your friend know what's ok to to say to each other.

Warning a friend so they aren't about to hurt themselves is different.


Sounds like a good plan. If everyone did that, the only time you would ever get advice is when you wanted it unless it was thought to be serious.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:25 PM
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a reply to: Sillyosaurus


The idea is that an action is good if everyone does it and it is good.


Sounds pretty effective. I really like that, and I'm not even into ethics. Just have to watch that interpretation of "good", because differing points of view lead to different actions. My only question is what about the stuff that is good that other people don't do? Most people don't stop to help others while travelling in their car, or I dare say that car troubles would be a thing of the past. Obviously, it is up to the individual to decide; something for us all to consider, though.


So lie or not, what would you say to the SS officer who asked you if you are hiding any Jews, and you are...


The situational variables lead me to believe this question is unanswerable at this time, sir/ma'am.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:32 PM
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a reply to: RoScoLaz4


i guess my answer is, i'd lie through my teeth.


I think honesty with oneself is one of the most noble of all of the traits. While there is no punishment for lying socially in situations like this, there is a punishment for being honest with yourself in most cases (facing hard truths, etc.). There are even social rewards in some cases for lying, but not for honesty with yourself.




posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: caged66


I find the best response to these questions is to recycle
the question as the answer.


That's a good way to go about it. It leads them to their own conclusion rather than letting social circumstances dictate their conclusion for them.


Hypocrisy, to me, is claiming to believe in something
Wholeheartedly, but living and being active in the
complete opposite to what you claim.

Or manipulating a belief or system in ways it will
benefit you while judging others who do the same


The first one is what hypocrisy actually is, but this is in the philosophy section. This was more of a rant-type thing, because I saw someone calling someone a hypocrite and I don't like it when people ignorantly call others a hypocrite without realizing everyone is. I'm not sure of a better word for it, though I'm sure there is one. The pot calling the proverbial kettle black.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 11:39 PM
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Well i chose to be 100% honest with my wife on these little things since the day we decided to go steady.
And to make things clear: NO they're not little things, and YES I think this kind of honesty has made us very close.

I dunno about friends though, i don't have many of those, if any at all.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 12:48 AM
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a reply to: zackli

In a general way, I tell the truth.

But the truth, for me, is that my opinion is not that important, and I don't expect them to invest a lot in it.
If a friend asks me what I think of a new top, for example, and I don't like it, I would say,
"It is not my style. As you know already, I like things more (this or that). But that is MY personal style! What's important is that YOU have your own personal taste and style, and that you feel good in it! In the end, what makes or breaks a look is how the person carries it- if you feel awesome, you look awesome, and your clothes just make up part of that picture!"

That is truly what I feel is the truth.

In some rare cases, I would spin it a different way, perhaps leaving out a part of the truth. I know one woman who projects some weird sort of authoritarian view on me, so that she places unusual emphasis on everything I say.
She is quick to twist and misinterpret things as a judgement or criticism, no matter what I do. In her case I would limit it to something like,
"Well, it looks good with those pants, and definately goes with the shoes! They are exactly the same color, aren't they? What luck to find a top and shoes exactly the same tone of blue!!!"

I may leave out that I don't personally like the shoes anymore than the top, but I haven't lied exactly. Sometimes you have to consider the feelings of the individual as more important than your stupid personal opinion.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 01:18 AM
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a reply to: zackli

Oh it's my bedtime soon . Don't have time to watch it right now.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 01:24 AM
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hypocrites to me are those, like many politicians, who espouse Christian ethics and family values while sleeping around on their wife and screwing the system.

Or the policeman who breaks the law he is supposed to uphold.

Generally those in a situation of power who don't follow the rules they try and enforce - that to me is hypocrisy.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 01:43 AM
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a reply to: Bluesma

Right. It really depends on the situation, who you are talking with.
If I really don't like someone's outfit I won't lie and fake it's awesome.

Myself, I don't really ask what people think of my new top or shoes. I don't care what they think. it's if I like it that matters. If I feel good in it I don't need approval.

My sister can be insulting, her compliments come out as insults, like your hair looks good for once FOR ONCE? Gee thanks. Might be better to say your hair looks really nice today. Leave out the for once part.


Last week a girl told me she was getting Botox done on her lips. I was honest with that and said ' oh no. It looks awful to do that, you are pretty enough, you don't need fixing up'. I honestly think she's getting addicted to plastic surgery. Poor girl is gonna mess herself up. I might be wrong of course but it's just me trying to tell her she's very pretty and doesn't need to. I guess it's the in thing to do. What do I know. She isn't gonna listen to me.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 02:44 AM
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You know, on the subject of hypocrisy, I think all humans are cursed with that tendancy. Integrity is just about the hardest thing to achieve in any stable way! I don't judge harshly when I perceive it. In most cases, people are not at all aware they are doing it.

The problem is that we tend to focus on the things in others that we ourselves have in common with them- especially if we are not consciously acknowledging them. I suspect it is our subconscious's way of holding up a mirror to bring us to self awareness.

Though I do not judge for it, I will often speak up and just point it out, ONCE. I won't insist. If they aren't ready to see it, they won't- not only that, it will infuriate them to get close to seeing it.

A more effective method I have seen is try first to expose a way of looking at the "fault" which sheds a more positive light on it, to soften their criticism. Because as long as you have a harsh punishing super ego, you are going to avoid stirring it against yourself, in seeing your own faults.

(this on hypocrisy in general, when people judge harshly another for something they themselves are guilty of).



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: Bluesma


You know, on the subject of hypocrisy, I think all humans are cursed with that tendancy. I don't judge harshly when I perceive it. In most cases, people are not at all aware they are doing it.


I thought I put that in here, but I guess not. That's basically what this whole thing was arguing: that everyone is a hypocrite in their own "unique" ways so saying someone is a hypocrite is hypocritical.


Integrity is just about the hardest thing to achieve in any stable way!


As I said, the only way around this dilemma is by having a hierarchy wherein certain values are more important to you. It doesn't solve it 100%, though, because there are inevitably situations that come up that force you to make a decision between two conflicting goals.



posted on Aug, 9 2014 @ 07:41 PM
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a reply to: zackli

Everyone is. The important part is to recognize it when you fall. Then, learn, shake off the dust, stand back up, and try again.

Some of our greatest successes, came from years of failure. Philosophy is no different.

Just a humble opinion. :-)
edit on 9-8-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-8-2014 by Not Authorized because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 10 2014 @ 10:16 PM
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originally posted by: zackli
a reply to: Bluesma


I thought I put that in here, but I guess not. That's basically what this whole thing was arguing: that everyone is a hypocrite in their own "unique" ways so saying someone is a hypocrite is hypocritical.


I prefer to assert such a judgement upon acts, but not persons. To say- that is hypocritical, rather than you are a hypocrite.



As I said, the only way around this dilemma is by having a hierarchy wherein certain values are more important to you. It doesn't solve it 100%, though, because there are inevitably situations that come up that force you to make a decision between two conflicting goals.


Perhaps. I prefer to think that, we can come up with an intermediate conciliation between the opposites.
-Or continually work on self awareness and slowly make choices on a daily basis. To pay attention to the feedback one gets as valuable hints to our "blind spots".
The way of the Warrior entails working on integrity. As you become aware of your own hypocrisy and self contradiction, you are forced to either change your judgements, or change your behavior, one or the other.
In doing this, you become self mastering.

But I do agree that the first step is to recognize this struggle as being wholly human and not judge it harshly.









 
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