Hamas was created by Israel.

so all the players are in position now

what will "they" do

it has nothing to do with manipulating people and their opinions

maybe the can make some money off it

a reply to: AnteBellum

Hamas has trained commanders, not all of them are rogue fighters as we all are led to believe, they are not this stupid!

Sigh... are you religious? Why do you think the Hamas leaders think like you do? Obviously you have no idea what they think. They believe Israel is evil incarnate, they believe they are going to heaven if they die fighting this evil. They keep their people busy preparing for war against the Zionists. They want to fight them.

I'm not sure where you get your information about the tunnels. Did you know Egypt has been destroying the tunnels on their side? No one mentions that. I think you have no clue about how Hamas thinks.

Also, this quote "As a US citizen, if it is true, what's next? Seek asylum in Russia"
If you think you will have more freedom in Russia i encourage you to move there. I'm sure it will be enlightening. Dumb Americans have been doing that since the revolution, some even stay...

V

a reply to: Variable

Actually I am religious but I don't use it as an excuse for murder, which almost all religions have done throughout history.

Obviously Hamas doesn't think like I do because if I was in command I would of led everyone to think all I had were rockets when in actuality I was stocking up on BM's somewhere close by.
The difference is you see labels like 'Israel' or 'Hamas', I see human beings each with lives, children and dreams. Israel has made it quite clear their feeling toward the Palestinians is quite the same and vice versa. There is no winning side here, as you will unfortunately come to see, in the foreseeable future: I quote R&J, "All are punished!"

And I don't know what Hamas thinks, Israel thinks or anyone else for that matter, but what I do know is the information provided to me. Some more accurate then others at the time, part of disseminating evidence is weeding through the BS.

You missed the sarcasm, plus I have been to Russia 3 times, the people are wonderful and not like the government. If you haven't noticed governments are very much different then the people within their borders. I dislike what the US does on many issues especially foreign affairs, but that does not mean I hate america or americans. Putin has his battle to do what is right for Russia, just like our President has his.

So what started all the hate from you?
You do realize I'm not on one side or the other don't you?
What was it that I said that really upset you? I just can't believe it is all what your alluding to. . .

originally posted by: ThePublicEnemyNo1
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

On another thought...I dislike all religions...so call me a religious racist by all means. I think they're all whack jobs, including judaism.

Back to your post, I do think that referencing Zionism by many IMO, is a reference to disliking a certain "Jew Leadership".

Oxymoron, I guess

Cant say I disagree with you bud, the religions of the world have given the populace a lot of reasons not to like them

Hamas and Israel were created by the world. To deny the history of this blood-soaked land is to deny all the nations that have claimed it as "MINE."

This Land is Mine

Same war, different millenium.

a reply to: gladtobehere

Okay, here we go with the load of Anti-Semitic NONSENSE and idiotic rhetoric. Again! Newsflash, Israel is already SURROUNDED with PLENTY of enemies who wish to destroy her JUST for existing and returning to their Homeland. Hamas is an Arab Terrorist Group. Do you honestly think that Israel would CREATE one more to try and destroy itself... And you're actually going to believe that? Wow... Would love to know if you ever finished school or not. Another hot newsflash, is that Hamas began lobbing rockets FIRST! Once more Israel has to DEFEND HERSELF, against a SEA of Hatred and Frothing at the mouth TERRORISTS in her backyard and you expect Israel to say they're sorry for launching their own counter attack??? You tell me... WHAT sovereign nation is going to just STAND there and scratch their head while they're being pummelled??? Are you insane??? I am very sorry that people are being hurt on BOTH sides. But lets's be fair and honest here... it doesn't matter to people like you who have their own pre-conceived ideas about Israel. Ever lived there? No, I'm pretty sure you have not. I have. I still have wonderful friends there, Israelis, Bedouin, and Palestinians. I care for them all like my brothers. Not every Jew hates everyone without even knowing them. I think America has the handle on that one... Once more the ugly American goes racing off to say somelthing terrible about a nation of people they know ABSOLUTELY nothing about. My suggestion to you is, try some traveling. I don't mean just to Las Vegas or Disneyland. Try to become a WELL ROUNDED individual by visting OTHER countries, and experience the goodness of a number of countries, and then take a different and more learned and INFORMED look at the Nation of Israel.

a reply to: AnteBellum

So what started all the hate from you?
You do realize I'm not on one side or the other don't you?
What was it that I said that really upset you? I just can't believe it is all what your alluding to. .

No hate here, I just think your naive to whats going on. You said,and i am paraphrasing, "why would Hamas shoot missiles and build tunnels when they knew they would be ineffectual." Obviously your conclusion is wrong, they are shooting rockets because that is what they have to shoot. You also said building tunnels is expensive, why? They have lots of unemployed people. Digging in the dirt and lining with concrete is not terribly expensive. Gives people something to do... Hamas wants to fight Israel, they want to kill Israeli's. They want an Islamic state with the capital of Jerusalem.

Hamas was elected by the Palestinians, they run Gaza. I don't know if you are male or female, but your avatar is female. Do you think you would like to be female under Hamas? How about other Islamic fundamentalist? Would you rather be a female born in Israel or under an Islamic caliphate?

As for winners and losers, I don't know how you could call Gaza a winner. Israel is a wealthy modern democratic society. If they are not winning i don't know how you define winning.

Let's look at the conflict from an American-centric perspective. If Mexico started launching rockets into Texas, what would we do?


V

a reply to: Variable

Your missing the point I was trying to make and I'm not going to enlighten you on that.
And I never said the tunnels were ineffectual, just the rockets. Digging tunnels in this region is expensive from a time, cost and material sense. I'ts all about what gives the biggest bang for the buck. The tunnels didn't make a bang, or a boom or even a snap, crackle, pop in all this!

They have lots of unemployed people. Digging in the dirt and lining with concrete is not terribly expensive. Gives people something to do... Hamas wants to fight Israel, they want to kill Israeli's. They want an Islamic state with the capital of Jerusalem.

Do any of you see what I see above ATS?


Female and I don't want to be Islamic or Jewish and being in the USA I have a choice to be either. But they both turn my stomach now, along with the other failures.

I don't know how you could call Gaza a winner.

I don't know how either, because I didn't! Show me where I wrote that please. . .

Mexico isn't launching rockets but they are sending drugs, weapons and children each day every day. So far the drug war has cost America(ns) more lives then murdered Palestinian civilians, Israelis and Hamas terrorists together. And it is common knowledge what we do to stop it:

originally posted by: dinogirl
no it was NOT created by Israel

is this some whole big anti Israel nutter community who assume the `evil israel/zionists/mossad` are behind all the worlds problems

morons

WoW!!
What an intelligent post, Is that all you've got to bring to the table?

You can't really say that Hamas are "All the worlds problems" can you?
No,
Hamas are in a direct relationship with Israel wouldn't you agree?
If that's the case then Why would it be inconceivable for Hamas to of been created by Israel considering how previous PTB have been caught out funding both sides of wars?

originally posted by: g146541
I really thought this was common knowledge, a well understood fact.
Maybe some of the rabid israel supporters just do not have this information.
I truly don't understand how any American could support israel knowing there are lawmakers with dual citizenship who answer to AIPAC first!
Talk about infiltrating the enemy!

maybe your so called "rabid Israeli supporters" don't want to live under a dictatorial, 7th century, anti-western religious cult...

a reply to: dinogirl

Again, WoW!

Take a chill pill and relax, maybe do some reading about how the world works or about spirituality or something completely different....You are obviously on the wrong website.

This is a conspiracy based website for possible conspiracies

Still you bring nothing to the table!....nevermind!

originally posted by: zerozero00
a reply to: dinogirl

Again, WoW!

Take a chill pill and relax, maybe do some reading about how the world works or about spirituality or something completely different....You are obviously on the wrong website.

This is a conspiracy based website for possible conspiracies

Still you bring nothing to the table!....nevermind!

I bring nothing to the table?
oh, no i was only born in Israel and lived there till the age of 10. dont believe me ill gladly scan my passport, speak hebrew to you on skype or something.

My point is i am sick to death of seeing people who clearly havent stepped foot in Israel in their life, make these assumptions that Israel is nazi germany of 2014, when their entire knowledge of what is going on is based off forums or wikipedia or russia today!!

a reply to: dinogirl

No need to step foot in Israel thanks, I have visited over 20% of the worlds countries and have seen what extreme religion does to most I have visited, Not a pretty sight..depressing actually
What I bring to the table is a very open mind, I have been reading about this subject most of my life, listening to previous Israel leaders like Sharon, Netanyahu and others that have given quite a lot away in their "Quotes" ...I get these guy's ideology, do you?
Also, Mossad is another topic I've been very interested in for many years but that's for another thread another day

originally posted by: dinogirl
no it was NOT created by Israel

is this some whole big anti Israel nutter community who assume the `evil israel/zionists/mossad` are behind all the worlds problems

morons

You got anything to add, say I dunno a link or something, anything else bar your "word" and insults?

originally posted by: dinogirl
I bring nothing to the table? oh, no i was only born in Israel and lived there till the age of 10. dont believe me ill gladly scan my passport, speak hebrew to you on skype or something.

My point is i am sick to death of seeing people who clearly havent stepped foot in Israel in their life, make these assumptions that Israel is nazi germany of 2014, when their entire knowledge of what is going on is based off forums or wikipedia or russia today!!

And WHAT exactly makes you believe that things are what they appear to be?

Has it never occurred to you that just maybe, you yourself may actually be the one who has been deceived?

Taking things for what they are just isn't possible until a person learns how to discern between truth and lies.

“Nothing is as it appears to be.” ~ Robert Booth Nichols

“A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the world being round that agitated people, but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its speaker a raving lunatic.” ~ Dresdin James

What if you woke up tomorrow and everything you had thought was true was a deception? A deception formed by people that stood to profit from your ignorance. Not just on one small area but every facet of your existence. Would you want to know? Or, would you be content with the life you had before you discovered the truth? Could you close your eyes and act as if nothing ever happened? What if you could see the ways that you have been deceived and the way that those that came before you were made to believe a lie? How valuable would the truth become? Would it make you change your habits? your routines? the way you talk or think or speak? Would it impact you or would you brush it off and carry on with business as usual?

What if after waking up you decided to respond to that truth? What if you started studying history and world events and, like a string of pearls, events were no longer random but contained a sequence? What if that sequence was repeating? What if while studying these events they began to seem familiar?

What if everything you believed was a lie?

Wow. Can't believe people are actually asking for proof of an anti-Israel assertion in this forum. The way it works is you say the Israelis have done something terrible and indefensible. You throw in a few choice adjectives about them like "animals" or "pigs". Then you claim they are worse than Nazis. You discuss nothing about history other than possibly mentioning Israel stole all the land. Then, when any contrary reports comes up you claim those are Jew propaganda and you don't believe them. When proof comes in that the claim was false you say "sure it was false but I believe they would have done x anyway".

Rinse. REPEAT.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned the wikileaks cables on this...

"EARLIER IN THE UPRISING, SOME ISRAELI
OCCUPATION OFFICIALS INDICATED THAT HAMAS SERVED AS A
USEFUL COUNTER TO THE SECULAR ORGANIZATIONS LOYAL TO
THE PLO. A NUMBER OF PALESTINIANS LOYAL TO THE PLO
ALLEGED THAT THE IDF WAS USING HAMAS FOR SUCH A
PURPOSE. "

https://__._/plusd/cables/89TELAVIV14032_a.html#efmAqcAue

"AMAS--RELATIONSHIP WITH ISRAEL
-------------------------------
20. MANY WEST BANKERS BELIEVE THAT ISRAEL
ACTIVELY SUPPORTS HAMAS IN AN EFFORT TO DIVIDE
PALESTINIANS AND WEAKEN THE INTIFADA. THEY
POINT TO THE FACT THAT HAMAS OPERATIVES ACT
BOLDLY IN DISTRIBUTING THEIR LEAFLETS.
SHOPKEEPERS IN JERUSALEM AND NABLUS REPORT THAT,
WHEREAS UNLU LEAFLETS ARE DISTRIBUTED SECRETLY
FOR FEAR OF ISRAELI SECURITY FORCES, HAMAS
OPERATIVES WALK INTO SHOPS AND PRESENT THEIR
LEAFLETS DIRECTLY TO THE OWNERS. MAYOR FREIJ OF
BETHLEHEM CLAIMS THAT MEMBERS OF SOME WELL KNOWN
FAMILIES WHO COLLABORATE WITH ISRAELI OFFICIALS
HAVE BEEN SEEN AMONG HAMAS STREET GANGS IN
BETHLEHEM. FURTHERMORE, DESPITE MASSIVE
ARRESTS--AND THE PUBLIC IDENTITY OF MANY MB
LEADERS--RELATIVELY FEW HAMAS LEADERS HAVE BEEN
DETAINED. IN RECENT WEEKS, FUNDAMENTALIST
LEADERS HAVE GIVEN INTERVIEWS TO ISRAELI
PUBLICATIONS THAT WOULD HAVE LANDED SECULARIST
LEADERS IN DETENTION. WE BELIEVE THAT, WHILE
ISRAELI FORCES MAY BE TURNING A BLIND EYE TO
HAMAS ACTIVITIES, THERE IS INSUFFICIENT EVIDENCE
TO CONCLUDE THAT ISRAEL IS PROVIDING ACTIVE
SUPPORT. "

https://__._/plusd/cables/88JERUSALEM3168_a.html#efmDRFDi0

There's also this nifty detailed article from an issue of executive intelligence review (volume 15, Oct. 17th, 1988), "Israeli Mossad backs
Arab fundamentalists "
:

"Now, several reliable sources have confirmed that it was
an Israeli intelligence operation that encouraged the growth
of that very Islamic fundamentalism against which Shamir
had warned. The Israeli Mossad's purpose was to pit its
homegrown fundamentalists against the Palestine Liberation
Organization for control of the uprising. Shamir has not only
been caught crying "wolf," but the security services of his
country are now found playing with Islamic fundamentalist
forces in a fashion that could mean suicide for the state of
Israel by the tum of the century. It was the same suicidal
impulse, following Anglo-Venetian imperial policies of the
"Great Game," that led a significant faction in Israel to sup­
port the policy of dumping the Shah of Iran in exchange for
the Ayatollah Khomeini. This policy, begun in consonance
with the Carter administration, continued into the second
Reagan-Bush administration, when the Israelis suckered the
United States into attempting back-channel deals with Iran
over release of the hostages."

www.larouchepub.com...

a reply to: Murgatroid

How is Missiles being lobbed into your lap, a FALSE FLAG??? You Anti-Semitic neophytes are just utterly ridiculous!