Hamas was created by Israel.

originally posted by: Swills
a reply to: metodex

Backing Hamas?

I'll throw you a bone and suggest that maybe a small (minute), fringe, number of ATS posters support Hamas, but the reality here (and all over the internet/world) is that anyone who criticizes Israel is automatically labeled a Hamas supporter.

That's equivalent of labeling me an Al Qaeda supporter because I criticize the US gov't and their failed war on terror.

I agree there has been a lot of that blanket statements

But there has been a lot of excuse making for Hamas as well, and people who flat out WILL NOT condemn Hamases actions,

And now im seeing some of them post here claiming hamas is MOSSAD.....

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

"You thought", well try to keep that going, hope for you yet. Yes I know the difference, I was replying to someone that used zionist in context of Jew. The question of slander is interesting, are you proposing that a Jewish DNA researcher is slandering Jews because of his research. Perhaps you right, Jews can be slanderish, Hmmmmm

beezzer, you missed it. palestinians, partcularly those in gaza have seen their land divided by 4, and every one lost a child or parent to IDF action.
so the ordinary gazaian is easily recruited to resistance..any resistance. think back to the war in vietnam...how about the people in the town of Mai Lai??? every one knew someone killed by US forces.
great scene in apocolypse now. beautiful young women runs up to a chopper taking off, waves...and tosses a grenade, pin long pulled. chopper blows and she dies too.

so what do you do, Hamas may be IDF front..but where do you turn, Israel has all the monitoring tools that NSA has, in fact created them (see amdocs, comverse infosys)

the only real resistance in gaza is individual resistance, even if it means dying. even if it means killing your pretend leaders...if you can figure it out.

there have been snippets indicating palestinians rejecting hamas....

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

"You thought", well try to keep that going, hope for you yet.

Yes I know the difference, I was replying to someone that used zionist in context of Jew. The question of slander is interesting, are you proposing that a Jewish DNA researcher is slandering Jews because of his research. Perhaps you right, Jews can be slanderish, Hmmmmm

No mine was purely in the context of your statement....

Why would people use the term Zionist to blanket all jews in, if they werent trying to be slanderous......

People say that they dont hate jews they hate Zionist, and then use the term Zionist to refer to jews...Especially when you dont have to be a Jew to be zionist

Its pretty telling to me

"You thought", well try to keep that going

nice potshot ,a little infantile and needless but ill give that one to you

a reply to: glend

An Ideology has no basis in genetic heritage.

a reply to: darkstar57

This whole war is getting ridiculous, in my humble.

Outlandish allegations about the Iron Dome, Hamas, IDF, Palestinians.

It's sad. And I hope, really hope that a peaceful resolution can come about.

For all sides.

originally posted by: beezzer
a reply to: darkstar57

This whole war is getting ridiculous, in my humble.

Outlandish allegations about the Iron Dome, Hamas, IDF, Palestinians.

It's sad. And I hope, really hope that a peaceful resolution can come about.

For all sides.

Totally agree, families and people on both sides of this conflict have seen enough death and hate....
its time for this to be resolved..

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Nah, I don't see anyone defending Hamas. We all want Hamas out of the picture. Think about it, for all the so called anti Israel folks out there Hamas is a thorn in their side because their endorsement of violence allows Israel the right to level Gaza. Hamas needs to go, there is no doubt. Who would argue against that?

I've posted in many threads of recent a poll taken before this "war" that sheds some new light into the heart of Palestinians, namely the Gazans. They're for nonviolent peaceful resistance and their support for Hamas is lower than you might expect. Problem is, when Hamas was "elected" that was the last election. Supposedly there may be an election this year but don't hold your breath. Hamas clearly has no problems sacrificing the Gazans and themselves. They clearly have no problem killing anyone who stands in their way. So essentially Hamas is ruling via force because who is gonna over throw them?

Israel, to their credit, is killing Hamas leaders but with all the death and destruction they rain down on Gaza they are only creating more hate. And the cycle, as it stands, will continue.

New Palestinian Poll Shows Hardline Views, But Some Pragmatism Too

HAMAS IS NOT GAINING POLITICAL GROUND FROM THE CRISIS
Most striking, and contrary to common misperception, Hamas is not gaining politically from the kidnapping. Asked who should be the president of Palestine in the next two years, a solid plurality in both the West Bank and Gaza named Abbas (30%) or other Fatah-affiliated leaders: Marwan Barghouti (12%), Muhammad Dahlan (10%), Rami Hamdallah (6%), Mustafa Barghouti (4%), Salam Fayyad (2%), or Mahmoud al-Aloul (1%). These findings strongly suggest that the Palestinian public as a whole has little or no desire to carry out any threats to "dissolve" the Palestinian Authority.

In stark contrast, Hamas leaders Ismail Haniyeh and Khaled Mashal rated a combined total of just 9% support in the West Bank and 15% in Gaza. Another intriguing finding is that Dahlan has significant popular support among Gazans, at 20%. Also notable is that not one of the other old-guard Fatah figures, such as Abu Ala, Nabil Shaath, or Jibril Rajoub, attracted even 1% support in either the West Bank or Gaza.

Report: Hamas spokesperson attacked by Gaza civilians

That all said, let's stop pretending Israel's right wing gov't wants peace.

Destroying Gaza Isn’t Netanyahu’s Goal, It’s Far Worse

a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

Its just a matter of education, many Jews fight against zionism True Torah Jews Against Zionism etc so you cannot blanket all Jews with the word zionism. I think I understand what you are getting at (Protocols of the Elders of Zion etc), not party to that line of thinking at all. Feel Jews really have been cursed by zionism itself, wouldn't wish it on my worse foe.

a reply to: smurfy

It's actually more easy to state that in your opinion, all politicians are just pathological liars, and the reason for being so.

New to American politics huh? Would you mind showing me a politician that isn't a pathological liar.

a reply to: gladtobehere

I have read rumors that Hamas was directly aided by Israel years ago but that is as close to evidence as I have ever gotten. I have not been able to find anything concrete to establish that Israel created Hamas. It's something spoken of by many as if it were an absolute fact but other than hearsay and third party or anonymous information I have yet to find proof.

I have always accepted that Israel could seek to support opposition to the PLO under Arafat though. It makes sense. Hamas is a different creature nowadays and has been hijacked and supported by extremist and external influences like Iran. Much like the birth of Al-Qaeda from the US CIA backed Mujaheddin in Afghanistan with regard to the Soviet Union. It's a possibility that Hamas may have been inspired by interested Parties in Israel's Government.

Hamas is an offshoot of the (Egyptian) Muslim Brotherhood. Israel didn't create it, but I wouldn't be surprised if Israel (and the US) didn't fund Hamas at one time or another to keep them achieving whatever means they had at the time (like balancing out the PLO.) The US has funded groups linked solidly to Hamas in the past, for whatever it's worth. But I don't think Hamas was "created" by Israel. With that being said, it wouldn't be the first time a group was maneuvered about or co-opted to achieve political ends. I doubt those ends are "justify attacking Gaza," though. There would be radical political groups in the Gaza strip if Hamas didn't exist. Think about it. It's not like some of the surrounding nations don't have political factions with ideological or political incentives to create a constant thorn in Israel's side using the readily available human resources already literally in Israel's side and with ample motivation to become a thorn.

Besides, why would Israel fund a resistance group? If they could keep resistance from happening in the Gaza strip (by not funding it) what would stop them from colonizing it? Wasn't there a bunch of complaints about that already?

originally posted by: metodex
LOL it took ATS way too long to come to this.
Im thinking of quitting ATS now, it had become a circus for the absurd.
There is still some hope, but hope can be put out faster than light.

Edit: Funny how everyone was backing Hamas last week and now Hamas is the enemy.

Orwellian to the bone.

Well that's a pretty inaccurate, nay, wrong statement. People were defending the rights of innocent Palestinian people who were under siege. No one was "backing" Hamas.

I posted this in another thread.

Watch this video of Senator David Norris who is a political and human rights activist in Dublin, Ireland. He has a rant about Israel and it's war crimes in the Irish Parliament. He's absolutely on the ball with what he says! Including his statement 'Israel created Hamas'.



And also why would Netanyahell ask the US to help cover up Israel's War Crimes if they were the victims like they always say they are?

Ron Paul:

"Hamas was started by Israel.



Every time Hamas fires a few fire crackers at Israhell it's followed by a bombardment from Israhell of sophisticated US supplied weaponry that wipes out more Palestinian families. Every time there is a ceasefire Hamas usually breaks it.

Who gains from Hamas and their actions? Certainly not the Palestinians. Israhell always gains.



And there's another thing that get's me. Any criticism of Israhell and you are termed Anti-Semitic. To hell with that. They can take their Anti-Semitism Bullcrap and stick it up their Zionist asses!

originally posted by: Bilk22

originally posted by: metodex
LOL it took ATS way too long to come to this.
Im thinking of quitting ATS now, it had become a circus for the absurd.
There is still some hope, but hope can be put out faster than light.

Edit: Funny how everyone was backing Hamas last week and now Hamas is the enemy.

Orwellian to the bone.

Well that's a pretty inaccurate, nay, wrong statement. People were defending the rights of innocent Palestinian people who were under siege. No one was "backing" Hamas.

The accusations of "backing Hamas" is designed to distract away from the actual OP, calling people terrorist sympathisers for speaking out against Israels actions is a cheap tactic. There is a lot of it happening lately on ATS.

Israel created Hamas like Batman created the Joker? I gave a beggar $5 one time, am I responsible for his crack addiction?

I keep seeing one side hate the Jews and the other hate the Palestinians,everybody is geared up to fight the keyboard battle but ,I've seen only 3 people here talk about ideas for a peaceful solution. Maybe that 3 vs. the rest of ATS ratio is why this war keeps dragging on.

Man in the mirror...

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
People say that they dont hate jews they hate Zionist, and then use the term Zionist to refer to jews...Especially when you dont have to be a Jew to be zionist

Its pretty telling to me

The urban dictionary sums it up very well:

Zionist 1. A person , Jewish or non-Jewish, who, by some action, supports the State of Israel.
2. A substitue word for 'jew' used by anti-semites who, for whatever reason, wish to hide their racist intent.

www.urbandictionary.com...

Use 2. is the main use here.

a reply to: abe froman


This is not a War. A War requires 2 sides armed to the teeth.

The attack on Gaza and the Palestinians is a Genocide. A bloodbath of murder by the Zionist Israeli Regime.

Any idiot can see that Hamas is on the side of the Israeli's. It's too obvious. Like I said, who benefits from the actions of Hamas. Not the Palestinians whose families get blown to bits. 2,000 or so Palestinians have been slaughtered. A quarter of the victims children. Thousands more are maimed to such an extent they cannot leave the area without help from other people. The Israeli onslaught continues day and night. Any Palestinians that tried to flee are cut down by the cowardly IDF. Anyone caught in the enclaves on the coast have been attacked by the IDF with Chemical Weapons. This is Cold Blooded Murder!!

NOT WAR!!

There will never be a peaceful solution from the invaders of Palestine. They want nothing less than a Cull of the Palestinian people.

Sick and Disgusting Zionist Jews are the scourge of Humanity.

originally posted by: abe froman
Israel created Hamas like Batman created the Joker? I gave a beggar $5 one time, am I responsible for his crack addiction?

I keep seeing one side hate the Jews and the other hate the Palestinians,everybody is geared up to fight the keyboard battle but ,I've seen only 3 people here talk about ideas for a peaceful solution. Maybe that 3 vs. the rest of ATS ratio is why this war keeps dragging on.

Man in the mirror...

Yes Stan lee the creator of Bat man also created joker so bat man could have an enemy to fight against and the producers could make money out of their adventures...How could there be peace if Zionists don't really like it to be?

originally posted by: shapur

originally posted by: abe froman
Israel created Hamas like Batman created the Joker? I gave a beggar $5 one time, am I responsible for his crack addiction?

I keep seeing one side hate the Jews and the other hate the Palestinians,everybody is geared up to fight the keyboard battle but ,I've seen only 3 people here talk about ideas for a peaceful solution. Maybe that 3 vs. the rest of ATS ratio is why this war keeps dragging on.

Man in the mirror...

Yes Stan lee the creator of Bat man also created joker so bat man could have an enemy to fight against and the producers could make money out of their adventures...How could there be peace if Zionists don't really like it to be?

Bob Kane and Bill Finger made Batman, not having a go just letting my inner geek out. I get your point though.