Call no man Father

originally posted by: adjensen
Was Jesus Jewish? Or Protestant?

He was neither one...

Of course religion says otherwise.

I no longer believe in fairy tales AKA 'religion'.

The statement is commonly made, even by those who should know better, that we Christians owe a debt to the Jews, for we got our Bible and our religion from them. While many people have been deceived into believing this, it is completely false. Part of the mistake comes from the complete confusion in the minds of nearly all people as to just what they mean by Jew. Are they referring to people of a certain race, or referring to a people of a certain religion, for the two are not the same. There are in Africa today, some pure blooded negroes who are Jews by religion and there are in China today,some pure blooded Mongolians who are Jews by religion. Likewise, there are some people today who are racially of the stock we know as Jews, but who have been converted to other religions.

THE BIBLE IS NOT A JEWISH BOOK

The late Rabbi Stephen F. Wise, formerly the Chief Rabbi of the United States said, "The return from Babylon and the introduction of the Babylonian Talmud mark the end of Hebrewism and the beginning of Judaism."

The learned Rabbi was correct in distinguishing the true religion of the Old Testament as Hebrewism for it was the religion of the real Hebrews, who were not Jews at all. Judaism, the religion of the Jews, is as the learned Rabbi says, based upon the Babylonian Talmud, which contains the supposed oral law. It was never reduced to writing as part of the Bible. This oral law gradually gained greater force among the Jews than the written law in the Bible, with which it often conflicted in Jesus' day, the Babylonian Talmud was known as the Tradition of the Elders.

This was the religion of the Jews. As the learned Rabbi Stephen F. Wise said, Judaism was distinguished from Hebrewism, the real religion of the Old Testament. Certainly Christianity took nothing from any Jewish religion for we have never taken any part of Christianity from the Talmud. Well then, can it be said we got our Bible or our religion of Christianity from men of the Jewish race? No, it cannot.

The Bible is not a Jewish Book

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Next time you want to tell people what Catholics do and don't do, perhaps you should actually read the Catholic Catechism and see for yourself what they teach and what they do.

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt...

I was sent to weekly Catechism as a child.

There is a minor flaw with that premise as well...

One NEVER understands propaganda by studying propaganda.

That makes just as much sense as trying to understand a cult by joining the cult and reading their own writings.

This is why religion is such a powerful and effective form of mind control.

In the entire history of man, no one has ever been brainwashed and realized, or believed, that he had been brainwashed. Those who have been brainwashed will usually passionately defend their manipulators, claiming they have simply been "shown the light" . . . or have been transformed in miraculous ways.
Brainwashing Techniques Being Used On The Public

originally posted by: FlyersFan

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

originally posted by: knoledgeispower
I still don't see why it is needed, instead of just praying to God.

If you don't see why it is necessary to ask others to pray for you .... then don't ask them. HOWEVER, scripture states we are to pray for each other and so there is nothing wrong with asking others to pray for us. If you don't want to do that .. then don't.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

It's not talking about other people, I'm talking about praying to saints instead of God directly. I understand why you ask other people, you can better channel energy that way & have a chance of it helping ((especially if they are all in the same room & all focused hard on the task at hand))

a reply to: knoledgeispower

It's not talking about other people, I'm talking about praying to saints instead of God directly. I understand why you ask other people

That's what prayers of intercession are, you're asking someone else to pray for you. The difference is that you're asking a Saint, a holy person, to pray for you.

The cool thing about Saints is that they are in the presence of God. No one is named a Saint unless the church determines that they are in heaven (through the evidence of miracles -- no one in hell could do miracles, so if a miracle is attributed to a Saint, we know that they are in heaven,) and we believe that to be in heaven is to be in the presence of God.

So if you ask your neighbour or friend to pray for you, that's great. But asking Saint John of the Cross, Saint Ambrose or the Virgin Mary to pray for you? They'll take your request to God personally.

John 6
Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Revelation 15
Who shall not fear thee, O Lord, and glorify thy name? for thou only art holy: for all nations shall come and worship before thee

Hebrews1
..hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

8
Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man..

7
but this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Philippians 2
but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 10
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Luke 5
Who can forgive sins, but God alone?

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: knoledgeispower

It's not talking about other people, I'm talking about praying to saints instead of God directly. I understand why you ask other people

That's what prayers of intercession are, you're asking someone else to pray for you. The difference is that you're asking a Saint, a holy person, to pray for you.

The cool thing about Saints is that they are in the presence of God. No one is named a Saint unless the church determines that they are in heaven (through the evidence of miracles -- no one in hell could do miracles, so if a miracle is attributed to a Saint, we know that they are in heaven,) and we believe that to be in heaven is to be in the presence of God.

So if you ask your neighbour or friend to pray for you, that's great. But asking Saint John of the Cross, Saint Ambrose or the Virgin Mary to pray for you? They'll take your request to God personally.

Well isn't that just nice and magical? The CHURCH decides who is in heaven. By evidence of miracles. What about a demon, or Satan? Can they perform miracles? OK before we play semantics, I realize that, by definition, trickery performed by Satan or his demons would not be considered a "miracle". But could they fool a mortal human into believing they have pperformed a miracle?

I guess you'll say they can fool regular folk but not the CHURCH.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like an ass... I really like everyone here in this thread quite a bit. But I guess it just kinda struck a chord when you said that someone other than God can determine whether or not someone goes to heaven or has gone to heaven.

a reply to: WeAllDieSoon

Further, I don't think God set up a Church where you are supposed to confess your sins to a man you barely know when God specifically tells us not to trust men.

Read this:

"And I also say to you that you are Peter (Petros - Lesser Stone), and upon this rock (Petra - Greater Stone) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." (Matt. 16:18).

The church was never built on Peter, but on Christ (Petra). The stone that was moved away from the tomb is the Petros. Petra is the foundation stone that cannot be moved. The church is moved to reveal a risen Christ.

a reply to: 3n19m470

Well isn't that just nice and magical? The CHURCH decides who is in heaven.

The church doesn't decide who goes to heaven, of course. They simply investigate the evidence to determine who is there.

What about a demon, or Satan? Can they perform miracles?

Have you read the Bible?

But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, “It is only by Beelzebul, the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons.”

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? (Matthew 12:24-26 NIV)

No, demons cannot perform miracles. Miracles are answered prayers of healing, they are not magic tricks.

a reply to: AlephBet

"And I also say to you that you are Peter (Petros - Lesser Stone), and upon this rock (Petra - Greater Stone) I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." (Matt. 16:18).

The problem there is that Jesus didn't speak Greek, he spoke Aramaic, and in Aramaic, the two "rock" references would have been the same word. If Peter is not the rock in question, the first part of the sentence makes absolutely no sense.

As a former Protestant, I understand why some people hate this passage and do their best to claim it means something that it does not, but it is clear that Christ founded a church, and that organization is the one described in Acts of the Apostles, led by Peter and the other Apostles, and which today still exists in the form of the Catholic and Orthodox Catholic churches.

a reply to: adjensen

In the Hebrew Matthew, the two rocks are consistent with the Greek. It's an argument many people have had in the past. There are many who believe the Hebrew predates the Greek.