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Michigan Homeowner Who Shot Unarmed Teen Girl Found Guilty Of 2nd Degree Murder

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posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: Metallicus
Have you ever been to Detroit? You might reconsider that verdict if you had.



I've been to Detroit and it's got nothing on Camden in terms of poverty and violence.

I'm all for people owning guns and using deadly force to protect themselves and their loved ones when their lives are in danger. A person knocking on your door/window does not constitute an imminent threat.




posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
There was no hysteria. Why would she be so crazy if someones life wasn't in danger?


Well I HAVE been that situation. It's called shock. I was in one once, about 1/4 mile outside of town. Got out. Thought I was walking towards town. Nope, perpendicular to where help was. I stumbled around all night.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:05 PM
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originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
There was no hysteria. Why would she be so crazy if someones life wasn't in danger?


Well I HAVE been that situation. It's called shock. I was in one once, about 1/4 mile outside of town. Got out. Thought I was walking towards town. Nope, perpendicular to where help was. I stumbled around all night.


I HAVE been too as I stated in the part of my post you didn't quote.

You don't sound like you were hysterical, and this case went to trial. No reason for her to really be in shock.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

she was drunk, hence the excessive pounding.
He shot her through his screen door.
that wasn't a freak accident, it was an accident brought on by poor judgment



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:11 PM
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originally posted by: GogoVicMorrow
No reason for her to really be in shock.


Car accident. What? You are a doctor that can diagnose shock over the internet? Have you got a business card?


(post by LolzPony removed for a serious terms and conditions violation)

posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:14 PM
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I never answer the door unless I'm expecting someone. No one else need knock.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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Is it customary for burglars to loudly announce themselves?
Is there some sort of etiquette that has to be followed when breaking in?
edit on 7-8-2014 by LionOfGOD because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:27 PM
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originally posted by: LionOfGOD
Is it customary for burglars to loudly announce themselves?
Is there some sort of etiquette that has to be followed when breaking in?


Well, I sure as hell wouldn't open a door to someone pounding, especially not without a firearm.

I wouldn't open the door. The pounding will have frightened my animals and pissed me off.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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originally posted by: Restricted
I wouldn't open the door. The pounding will have frightened my animals and pissed me off.


The SCOTUS just gave a ruling on that. Perfectly fine to shoot in a case like that.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:30 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

This man had absolutely no situational awareness whatsoever. He literally shot first and asked questions later.

Why didn't he turn his porch light on and see who was standing there?

Why didn't he simply refuse to open the door?

If he thought there was an issue at all why the hell didn't he issue a warning? Or at least ask, through the door, who it is and what they want?

He made no effort to understand the situation. He committed murder, pure and simple. I know some people tried to make this a gun issue. I own a lot of guns. I have tons of threads reviewing guns, shooting guns, and my opinions on my right to own and use them in lawful recreation and self defense are well known. I would not have acted in this manner if I heard someone pounding on my door.

How can someone be so clueless? I just don't understand what made this man squeeze the trigger in such a flagrantly care free manner. I would never be so careless with the lives of others. Even if I did feel threatened.

This whole story is just sad.
edit on pThu, 07 Aug 2014 17:32:15 -050020147America/Chicago2014-08-07T17:32:15-05:0031vx8 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:32 PM
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a reply to: theantediluvian

Media induced fear?? Have you been to Detroit? The media does not have to induce fear in a city that is in the top 5 every single year for most dangerous cities in America.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending this man's actions but claiming media induced fear in such an area shows a real lack of understanding about what is going on in Detroit.
edit on 7-8-2014 by MrWendal because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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a reply to: GogoVicMorrow

Like I said, I might have done the same thing. Sadly.

But this doesn't excuse the level of responsibility or guilt.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 05:41 PM
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a reply to: beezzer


Don't freak out, but I also agree with the verdict.

His life was not in danger. Even if it were thugs bent on robbing him, he should have waited until they were inside.


I'm freaking out!
j/k!

I'm not actually surprised that you agree with the verdict — I think most people, regardless of their political views, don't support shooting unarmed people for knocking on doors.

In my opinion, this incident is really about a culture of fear promoted by the media — whether it's a fear of being the victim of violent crime or the fear of gun owners or any of the million other things that we're supposed to be afraid of.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: MrWendal
a reply to: theantediluvian

Media induced fear?? Have you been to Detroit? The media does not have to induce fear in a city that is in the top 5 every single year for most dangerous cities in America.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not defending this man's actions but claiming media induced fear in such an area shows a real lack of understanding about what is going on in Detroit.


Dearborn Heights crime rates are on the low end of average.

USA.com crime index 1,617.57 vs 1,723.80 (national average)
Area Vibes crime index 3,281 vs 3,246 (national average)
Trulia - 0.35% of population victims of violent crimes (all) vs 0.56% for the entire state

Consider the following (source):

“I thought they were going to come through,” he replied. “I was not going to cower. I didn’t want to be a victim in my own house.”


“I did what I had to do to protect myself,” he said.


In later testimony, he said he pulled the trigger as a “reflex reaction” defending himself.

“It was them or me,” he told the jury made up of seven men and seven women.


He was so concerned about not being a victim, in a suburb of Detroit with violent crime statistics below the national average, that he shot a person he couldn't see, without warning, through his door. After that, with the door open, he sat down his shotgun and went looking for his cell phone to call the police.

edit on 2014-8-7 by theantediluvian because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:21 PM
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a reply to: GogoVicMorrow


Well.. we can't really say since we weren't there, but a doctor claimed she pounded the door, walls, and windows so hard she had bruising and abrasions on her hands and she was drunk (which is why she wrecked). I wonder why she sought help in such a dramatic manner if she was okay enough to pound on windows and wasn't seriously hurt?


That's not possible, if she was shot dead immediately after knocking, there is no way for bruises to have developed. It takes time for bruises to form. She was dead and the blood flow stopped long before that could have happened.

If such testimony came, it was surely from the defense, trying to exonerate their client by playing up the "dramatic manner" of her knocking, as you say.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:24 PM
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This is why gun owners go to shooting ranges
that trigger pull weight on the index finger is just oh so tempting.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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originally posted by: 12m8keall2c

originally posted by: Restricted
Pound like an animal, get shot in the face. Seems reasonable to me.


given the circumstances surrounding the incident, it would seem a righteous verdict/sentence.

he was never in a 'fear for your life' situation, but, instead out of his own self-perceived 'fear' he simply pointed the shotgun at the screen door and blasted away.... killing the young lady merely seeking assistance for a traffic accident.

nothing threatening other than his own mind.

't least he'll have the next several years to further contemplate his actions that fateful night.


as for the above quoted comment..

'seems reasonable' .... no better than the 'animal' [per your own words] that was killed that night inadvertently.

hope you don't ever have to sell girl scout cookies with your daughter.


simply... Wow

?????



I totally agree here. In order to get a self defense plea, the woman needed to be in the home threatening the guy's life and he would needed to have no other choice but use the gun.

Say she forced her way in, brandished a knife or gun and rushed the guy, or just rushed him and physically over powered him, that might be a self defense plea. Shooting through a closed door is not self defense. Just showing that woman the gun would be a felony assault charge against the guy! Get a clue people!
edit on 7-8-2014 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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Guess it depends on where you live and who the jury is. This reminds me of this story:




Girlfriend Believes Chantix Contributed to Texas Musician's Death
Sept. 19, 2007

Since Texas musician Carter Albrecht's bizarre and tragic death, concerns have surfaced about Chantix, the stop-smoking drug he was prescribed. Those closest to Albrecht believe the drug contributed to his death.

Albrecht was the charming, charismatic keyboard player from pop-music group Edie Brickell and the New Bohemians. A classically trained pianist, Albrecht was also a singer, songwriter and guitar player.

He inspired fierce loyalty among fans in his hometown of Dallas.

"He was such an amazing musician," said his girlfriend Ryann Rathbone.

With a solo album in the works, the 34-year-old was poised to break out on his own when a doctor warned Albrecht he might lose his soulful voice if he didn't ditch cigarettes. He asked Rathbone about the stop-smoking drug Chantix.

"And then we decided that we would do it together because we decided that we wanted to quit," Rathbone told Janet St. James, who first reported this story for ABC News' Dallas affiliate WFAA.

But Rathbone said that almost immediately after starting the drug, they started having vivid, often-frightening dreams — a known side effect of the medication.

"Nightmare kind of, hallucination kind of dreams where you don't know if it's real or not," Rathbone said.

About a week into taking Chantix, after an evening of cocktails, a hallucinating Albrecht started lashing out at his confused girlfriend physically and verbally.

"And the things that he was saying did not make any sense. It was like he was in a nightmare," Rathbone said.

Tragic Shooting

It got worse. On Sept. 5, Albrecht was shot to death on a peaceful street in Dallas after a neighbor said he was banging at the back door, yelling and ranting.

On a 911 tape of the call, the neighbor says, "He was yelling. I didn't know what he was yelling, but I told him to get out of my yard."
The caller's husband, Will Logg, fired what he says was a warning shot through the door. It hit Albrecht in the head. Police have said they have no plans to file charges against Logg.

"I was thinking there's no way," Rathbone said. "It doesn't make any sense. None of it does."

Could Chantix have contributed to Albrecht's bizarre death? "



abcnews.go.com...

This Michigan girl was not only drunk, she was also apparently tripping on drugs, she crashed her car, and was acting in a crazy manner in the middle of the night. The guy that shot her had been robbed numerous times, and he was paranoid.

In Texas, guy goes apey and beats on his neighbor's door yelling, he gets shot, he dies, and the homeowner was not charged.

In Michigan, girl is wasted, goes apey and beats on doors and windows in the dead of night. She's shot, she dies, homeowner goes to prison for second degree murder.

Both cases were a sad shame and somebody died who didn't have to.

Please NOTE that Detroit is notorious for having exceptionally slow response times if you call the cops:


For some people in Detroit, calling 911 isn't an option anymore. That's because it takes too long for any help to arrive.

People have developed their own emergency response plans that often involve calling relatives or friends, The New York Times reports.

How bad is it? For the highest-priority crimes, Detroit police take about 58 minutes, on average, to answer 911 calls.

money.msn.com...

So you have a paranoid person who has been victimized and robbed several times previously, living in a town were the freaking cops take an hour to get there, and that's only for the highest priority crimes, such as a murder which has already occurred.

I see the full picture here, and honestly, I would not have convicted him. I know that's not the popular view on this thread, but it's how I feel.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 06:50 PM
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This is an unfortunate situation but I can see how it came about.

In my local area we've received warning from the sheriff's office about a large string of home invasions.

They all involved a woman causing a distraction at the front door while a man would break in a back window and take what he could while you were distracted.

Again not a reason to shoot her, but definitely a valid argument to be suspicious of a person pounding on your house for attention. House better be on fire at this point...

We have to remember that hind sight is always 20/20. This guy, at the moment of the of incident had no knowledge of her being in an accident or intoxicated.




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