originally posted by: ServantOfTheLamb
Trust me I know what subjective morality means. It means that your morals mean absolutely nothing except to you, which makes them what exactly? Just
because you mean something to you doesn't give them actual significance in reality.
They still have significance, but only to me. Why would they have any significance to anyone else but me??? I wouldn't expect them to either. They
are MY morals. That is exactly why I'm saying Morals aren't Objective. My morals are mine. Yours are yours. Theirs are theirs. But they still
have significance otherwise I wouldn't have them.
The difference is that I don't expect others to always have the same morals as me. Sure, most of us have the morals when it comes to the big stuff
like Murder or Rape. Most all societies do. But that isn't evidence of an objective morality IMO. It just means it's very common for most people to
agree on how to live their life when it comes to interacting with each other in ways dealing with life and death. Plus once again, even though they
are shared with most other people there are a few cases where that isn't the case.
More importantly though is when you get to other morals. The ones not so major as things like Murder or Rape. Examples like sex before marriage for
example. This is where having moral differences to me is showing the best evidence for the fact that morals are subjective. Or Nudity for another
example. You will find those who think premarital sex is absolutely immoral and those who think it's totally fine and you'll find most people who
somewhere along the scale between those two.
To me that is showing that morality is certainly subjective otherwise everyone would see it the same. Obviously most people say Murder or Rape is bad
because those are extremely important encounters if you're the one involved. So obviously they will most often be the same from person to person.
But the less extreme ones you see that morals are shaped by each individuals own perception of things and experiences.
That would be like me saying, "chocolate cake is the best type of cake in the world,"and then in turn thinking that had some kind of
significance, or meaning, to what others thought about a type of cake. You don't seem to understand that if "you" are your own standard to which all
morals are held then they are absolutely meaningless in regards to people and reality.
But that's just it. I don't expect MY MORALS to mean anything to you. I don't know why you think YOUR MORALS should mean anything to someone else
either. In fact it's that difference in thinking which causes all the trouble. You think everyone is supposed to have the same moral code, most
likely the kind you also have and agree with. To me that just seems crazy because we all are experiencing our lives differently to some degree.
There is no standard or measuring bar to which some objective comparison can be made. Such standards are only imagined and will change from one
person to the next.
This is a major reason why I, like many others, disagree with Religions that support such ideas as a Single Moral Code. It tries to force a certain
code of living upon everyone in the same way and every religion has a different code which is expected to be followed. They all claim to have the
"True Code" from an unknowable "Divine Source" too. So, because nobody is willing to back down from whatever their code says they just start fighting
about it to the death.
History shows proof of this as far back as we know of. To me that's insane because they are all fighting over something that isn't even there. It's
all BS and they are killing each other over it. If they would just realize that Reality, at least as far as morality is concerned, isn't absolute.
It is subjective and to fight over it only means they will fight over it until only one person or group is left standing who all share the same
It seems to me the reason you don't want to believe in an objective moral standard is because you know that an objective moral standard that
transcends humans thoughts and emotions then that moral law brings up the question what put that law in place.
No, you've got it wrong. You think I am avoiding something. That I don't want to see the truth. That's what you mean when you say "I Deny God."
But that's not it at all, in fact it's the opposite. This is what Believers think about Non Believers and where all the Blaming and Fighting also
Believers think non believers are choosing not to see something that the believers see, but they aren't. THEY DON'T SEE WHAT BELIEVERS CLAIM TO SEE.
I don't know why they won't accept that either.
Just like you and I. You claim you see reality in a certain way and think for some reason that I should see that same reality but have chosen not
too. You're wrong. The fact is I don't see the reality you see. Just like you don't see reality the way I do.
Now, once again that is a major difference and it's an important one in how it's addressed. I don't expect you to see the same Reality as me just
like I don't expect you to have the same morals as me. You on the other hand do expect that. So when it comes to how we interact with each other a
problem occurs. It's going to be a much bigger problem for you however just like it's a bigger problem for Religious Orders when they start to
interact with each other.
For me, representing the non religious, as long as we can agree with the major rules like not to kill or rape each other we can interact smoothly.
Because I understand that the more minor differences are to be expected. But for the Religious Absolutists, they insist upon everyone having the same
set of rules without exception. But that will never happen because, once again, there isn't an absolute objective standard to which we can know.
It's subjective and will always be different to some degree.
edit on 8-8-2014 by mOjOm because: (no reason given)