September 18th, Scotlands date with destiny...

originally posted by: cyberheater

originally posted by: SoloprotocolLink to such a threat please.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

He said Scotland would be 'willing and able' to take on its share of national debt, but could not be expected to do so if it does not get a fair share of the Bank of England.

why not link the open letter that was supposedly in the Sun....The Daily Mail is hardly a source of objective Journalism.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
And you think the Sun is????? I always said, the Sun is good for one page....and you all know which page that is (aaahhh Debiie, 18, from Luton )

a reply to: ScepticScot

I think if the UK remains a whole, parliament should be moved up here to Cumbria, a nice middle point...not being bias being from Cumbria, I would have said Newcastle, but c'mon....Geordie shore (not to mention the whole Jocks and the Geordies thing, although that could have just been Viz)

a reply to: woogleuk

I think if the UK remains a whole, parliament should be moved up here to Cumbria, a nice middle point...not being bias being from Cumbria, I would have said Newcastle, but c'mon....Geordie shore (not to mention the whole Jocks and the Geordies thing, although that could have just been Viz)

What difference would that make? It is not about where parliament is situated. Where are you going to put the House of Lords? Would Whitehall still be insiduously pulling the strings?

What about the Monarchy? Who is leading the charge against the lie of austerity? Who is investigating the corruption in the banking system? Why are we in Europe? Why do we support the USA?...and all that stuff...

Of course our politicians are of the same ilk but they can hide behind Westminster and rail against them when it is expedient. I honestly think that we can only hold our own politicians accountable if they don't have a get out clause like Westminster.

The English people would be far better off concentrating on England. I think they too would benefit from a break up.

I don't understand those that say better together. There is no substance to it. What exactly is better...better than what...not being together? I say take a look around you, what do we have together?

In the UK we cannot fight the system together. We have to take it apart by parting. Once we have sorted out this mess up here we will rally to the English spring and support our friends.

People should also realise, that in the election that follows independence the SNP will easily win, there is no real viable opposition. The labour party will have to somehow re-invent itself and ditch the policies and spectre's of Brown, Blair and Miliband.

In the short term we will have Salmond and his short sighted policies. I can live with that...change might take some time but at least with independence the possibility is there. What is the alternative...stick with Cameron and wait for Miliband? The whole political set up is a disgrace and a sham. I want no part of that.

I don't think any Scottish government will last long if they are unpopular.

The most important things, in my opinion, is that when tough times come a calling, we are stronger together than separated. I have ties to both Scotland and England, to be honest, I often forget that they are two separate countries....I would hate to see the bond broken.

When tough times come calling we will always be allies. It is not about building a wall or some such...
I have English relatives, nothing will change. Have you ever considered that the people in Scotland might be better off governing themselves? We might choose a different direction...it doesn't somehow have to be detrimental to the English people.

We have been too close for too long for bonds to be broken.

originally posted by: midicon
In the UK we cannot fight the system together. We have to take it apart by parting. Once we have sorted out this mess up here we will rally to the English spring and support our friends.

If you become a foreign country I would hope you keep your nose out of our business and let us deal with it ourselves.
The only reason I'm interested in the Scottish independence vote is because right now we share the same international border. If you vote to leave then I care little about how you deal with it so long as it doesn't affect my country.
I do not want any foreign influence sticking it's nose into the governance of my country, as I assume you would not want either.

a reply to: grainofsand


I don't have any problem with that.

2nd

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: woogleuk

What is the alternative...stick with Cameron and wait for Miliband?

Labour heavily depend on Scotland. They'll lose something like 40 seats if Scotland votes for independence, while the Conservatives would lose only 1 or 2. In fact, if Scotland becomes independent, Cameron ends up with a clear and solid majority with or without the Lib Dems - in fact, even if the Lib Dems (along with a few other parties) threw their lot in with Milliband to form a coalition, Cameron would still have a majority as it currently stands.

Besides, why would anyone want to look forward to Milliband? He's a nasty little communist.

a reply to: EvillerBob

I don't know what Miliband is...I don't like any of them...they are all pretty much the same. There is no one to vote for and nothing will change. That is the only reason I support independence. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity...why not take it?

One thing Salmond said I liked is that there will be no austerity in Scotland.

stick with Cameron and wait for Miliband?

I was implying both were negative.

originally posted by: woogleuk
I hope the no's have it....yes, I think we are stronger together, living on the border I'm frequently in Scotland, I'm half Scottish (Elder, mums side), I have lots of Scottish friends....but more importantly, I want to see that smug, horrid grin wiped off Salmonds face. Just out of interest, will the Scottish Nazi National Party be in charge if the yes vote wins? Or will there be an election straight away?

ETA: Looking at the recent polls, the no vote is looking more likely, hurrah!

I can show you polls that say otherwise. No poll matters apart from the one on the 18th!

And the SNP will disband after independence. An election would happen in 2016 for who would run the country. I would suggest if you don't know the basics you likely don't know why we want independence. Maybe you should read up on that...

originally posted by: grainofsand
I do not want any foreign influence sticking it's nose into the governance of my country, as I assume you would not want either.

You mean the way that Scottish MP's currently vote on England only matters?

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: EvillerBob

I don't know what Miliband is...I don't like any of them...they are all pretty much the same. There is no one to vote for and nothing will change. That is the only reason I support independence. We have a once in a lifetime opportunity...why not take it?

One thing Salmond said I liked is that there will be no austerity in Scotland.

stick with Cameron and wait for Miliband?

I was implying both were negative.

If Salmond is saying there will be no austerity in Scotland he's implying he will do the same thing Blair and Brown did and overspend on the national credit card, spending more money than is available for populist reasons that sooner or later will all come tumbling down but of course by then he will no longer be in power and he and the little fish will blame whoever is then in power...................

Sound familiar?

a reply to: djz3ro
Of course the September vote is the only one which matters right now.
I just hope that whatever the result it is finally put to bed and we can all move on after it.
A scraped Yes, cool, move on and no more "all of Scotlands problems are Englands fault", and a scraped No, stop bitching for good and accept the will of the Scottish people who want to be part of this dysfunctional family that is the UK.
Either way, I'll be glad when it is over, no matter if rUK loses out as a result, just an end to the whining about the 'overlord English' will be good enough for me.

originally posted by: woogleuk
a reply to: Soloprotocol
And you think the Sun is????? I always said, the Sun is good for one page....and you all know which page that is (aaahhh Debiie, 18, from Luton )

Last time i read The Sun it was Linda Lusardi 18 from Kent,... i was just asking to see the actual Open Letter, not a Daily Fails edited version of what Alex Salmond said.

a reply to: djz3ro

Just had a quick resume of this thread, the petty jealousy and nay saying interference is sickening.

Here's why:

It is a fact that Scotland would prosper if independent. Cameron and Darling agree. The referendum really boils down to whether the people of Scotland feel confident enough to part ways with England. I doubt it will happen, the doom propaganda has been relentless and has put the wind up most leaving nothing but bewilderment.

Now, the views of the majority of English people i have spoken with are reflected here. Hardly a good word to say about the Scots, that it wont work, dont come back, you wont get the pound, we should have a say blah blah blah

The irony is that all the posts about how independence would effect England are an example of why there is a referendum in the first place. It seems that for once a decision will be made in Scotland that will have an effect on England and the very tbought of it even happening is a terrifying prospect. The nail biting reek of concern wafting north across the border is eminating from a country of control freaks. Imagine if the Scots kicked up as big a stink everytime a decision was made in Westminster that influenced Scotland!!

All the indignant posts about the impact of an independent Scotland on England are purely hypocritical and too transparent as greed, jealousy and bitterness come to the fore.

Unions such as the UK's are not the norm, a rarity even. If the majority of the countries of the world can hack not being in a Union why cant England? The truth is not about concern for the people of England, or even Scotland but about the loss of the control of a valuable asset taken for granted since 1707.

To all the whingers i say sit back, relax and let this ride out. England wont lose Scotland this time round. But seriously, if you insist on having a say then grow up, grow a pair and get over yourselves.

originally posted by: woogleuk

ETA: Looking at the recent polls, the no vote is looking more likely, hurrah!

www.scotlandsvote.com...

polldaddy.com...=1407416632781&count=horizontal&id=twitter-widget-1&lang=en&original_referer=https%3A%2F%2Fpolldaddy.com%2Fpoll%2 F8230803%2F&size=m&text=Poll%3A%20Should%20Scotland%20be%20an%20independent%20country%3F&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpoll.fm%2Ftp%2F4wexf&via=polldaddy

Yeah, believe the polls all you want...

originally posted by: uncommitted
If Salmond is saying there will be no austerity in Scotland he's implying he will do the same thing Blair and Brown did and overspend on the national credit card...

If the phrase "Private Finance Initiative" is ever used, run and don't look back. That's one of the biggest tragedies to come out of the Labour years and has severely financially crippled the NHS and parts of the education sector that fell for it hook, line and sinker.

Imagine a seedy mafia loan shark, but with less morality and higher interest rates.

If Scotland votes for independence, I hope that you as a country and an economy will blossom as a result. I just worried that you're being mislead. There seems to be a lot of concern that the promises of the SNP simply can't be delivered. Is there a back-up plan in place?

a reply to: helldiver
As long as you accept whatever the result is and stop whinging I'll be happy, as a Welshman who lives in England.
I almost hope it's a Yes so us South of the border can move on without any more bitching about how terrible the union is and calls for referendums every few years. If it's a No vote then I hope all Scots accept it and let sleeping dogs lie for a generation or two at least. It helps none of us to be in a union with constant whinging from one of the parties involved.

I was just lurking, watching the typical back and forth as predicted in the first reply of the thread, but felt compelled to respond to this:

originally posted by: grainofsand
We can't really whinge about it in England when to date there has never really been any organised campaign asking for an English parliament/devolution or even for law changes to fix the West Lothian question.

Yes, there has actually. The English Democrats campaign precisely for this and do gather a few hundred thousand votes in each election, just never enough in any one place to grab a seat.

Anyhoo - I'm not going to get sucked into the rest of the bickering - it's all been said before and, to be honest, Salmond is doing a bang up job ruining the campaign anyway, so it's all going to be wasted energy.

originally posted by: grainofsand

I do not want any foreign influence sticking it's nose into the governance of my country, as I assume you would not want either.

Eh, we've had it for the best part of 300 bloody years man. Maybe this is what you dont get. the overall feeling in Scotland and regardless of whether you are pro independence or not is that Scotland IS ruled by London, England...

London is not the English People, we dont have a quarrel with the Elnglish unless it's Football or Rugby..I know it sounds strange, but to me and many i know, even the ones who are Voting No, London is a completely different country within the UK, and is probably only ever remembered for the wicked decisions it's made against our country from Political to Military over the past 700 years..

The Thatcher era was a Major turning point for me to really find a reason to Hate London and with that came Hating Parliament, the house of Lords and all it stands for.

It's really a class war. nothing much has changed. The Upper classes still control your every waking day to some extent.
Within the halls of Oxford and Cambridge they divvy it up to see who joins what party. Labour, Tory, Lib Dems and the newly formed UKIP... All reek of Oxford, Cambridge, London.
I have to Laugh when i read people say Tony Blair was a Scot and a Prime Minister, He may have been born here but there is nothing Scottish about him, i'm sure he may have only ever lived here for a few Months after Birth..Another Oxford privately educated to rule the world Creep. Middle East Peace envoy, he's been on Holiday since he landed that Gig.

And that is my defence your honour.

a reply to: stumason
Yep, I concede, and actually thought of the English Democrats after I made that post thinking...Doh!
Perhaps this Scottish vote will inspire more thoughts of how the rest of the UK is run, I hope so at least.
If the Scots become independent then I'll be pleased to see democracy in action and the end of us in England being blamed for their problems, but if they choose to stay then I hope we see wide-ranging changes in the structure of the union to benefit us all...and calls for independence being put to bed for a generation or two at least.

a reply to: Soloprotocol
So do you disagree with my thoughts that I do not want any foreign influence sticking it's nose into the governance of my country if/when Scotland becomes independent? UK issues will have as much to do with you as it does for someone from France.
If you choose to leave the union then you have no more reason or right to whinge about the governance of the remaining UK.
Which bit of that could you possibly be unhappy about?

Bitching about UK class wars is lame if you become a foreign country, it would have nothing to do with you.