September 18th, Scotlands date with destiny...

a reply to: ScepticScot
I have read your quite reasoned comments in other threads, and if I lived in Scotland I would probably vote yes for the same London-centric reasons you have previously expressed.
Here on the SW coast of England, London may as well be Paris for the little relevance it has to us. Devon and Cornwall are just as financially neglected as anywhere else, but we are just lucky that plenty of foreign and UK money (and more specifically cash) pours into our region every summer from the tourists.

But as a geographical extreme of 'the island' we have a sunny-beach-style apathy which means there are no real organised calls for political change, we just plod along enjoying our sleepy part of the UK pretty much left alone.
Scotland however has shown a wish for change, so I support it and passionately hope the vote is a landslide so we can all finally move on, as part of the same family, or as friendly neighbours.
Westminster will still ignore my part of the UK regardless of the result in Scotland, and most people here won't give a toss...until September when the tourists dry up and the nights draw in and we start whinging about such things again, including the weather lol

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: alldaylong

Do you really think for one minute the bank of Engand won't want Scotland to keep the pound?

The whole idea is a scare tactic and reverse psychology.

When The Irish Republic became independent from Britain, it created it's own currency. So why can't Scotland.

A Scottish currency could carry the head of Salmond on it's notes, and Nicola Whatshername on the coins

a reply to: alldaylong

That's why I call it reverse psychology. We need our own currency.

They can print anything they like on it as long as it isn't the queen.

originally posted by: Mister_Bit

originally posted by: helldiver

originally posted by: Danny85
Honestly, I hope they do leave and its nothing to do with emotional reaction etc. I've been thinking about this for a long time and i've gotten to the point that I really just want them to go. In fact if they have their vote and decide to stay then surely we (that's the rest of the Union) should be allowed to vote whether they stay or not.

Its stupid for any country that has been part of a successful union and have no plan on how to carry on without us. They wanna keep our OUR currency because they think its their right, but if they have a currency union they have no rights to tax rates, yet they dont have a back up in case, although I personally think they will go to the EU and become a new country in the EU and just use the Euro, and that's the plan for the Scottish government and they should say that rather than dance around the question.

Its a simply fact that with a union we were better off and at the start I did hope they stayed but with all the bellyaching that I've seen from certain but not all Scottish people i've reached the point of saying GO. JUST GO AND PLEASE WHEN IF (WILL) GO WRONG DO NOT COME RUNNING BACK AND AmSKING TO REJOIN THE UNION.

Hehe, get a load of this guy. "...our currency..."

If we gain independence then we will most certainly be keeping the pound. It's as much Scotlands as anyone elses.

Your kind worry about losing Scotland as an asset, lets face it. Cant blame you though, if the UK revolved around Holyrood and the English subsidised us as much as Scotland currently subsidises England i'd be worried too.

It is the Union's currency, if you leave you wont be part of the union, therefore it's not your currency.

You missed the point. The pound is Scotlands currency plain and simple. Same goes for Wales, NI and England. In the event of independence we have every right to want to keep our currency. Thats what all the chat about a currency union is all about.

It would be sheer folly to deny Scotland the pound, it would not happen. It would be like shooting the rest of the UK in the foot in terms of the value of the pound.

Anyone who thinks an independent Scotland wouldn't get to keep the pound is either falling for Project Fear propaganda or is just plain kidding themselves.

a reply to: helldiver
What type of pound do you mean though?
A pound like most of Cambodia uses the US dollar without a currency union, but is subject to economic changes outside of the control of the Cambodian government?
Or a pound which is in a formal currency union which the Bank of England underwrites and is then at risk of any economic issues which happen to go on in Scotland?

Or do you want a Bank of England & Scotland to jointly underwrite this shared currency?
Doesn't really sound like independence to me, but one thing is for sure, if Scotland wants a situation which could potentially result in negative consequences for rUK after independence then I would be one of the first calling for a referendum for us in rUK to be part of the democratic decision making process.
Scotland cannot have it's cake and eat it, if a decision is made to leave the union (and all the perceived benefits of the union) then any subsequent decisions which may have a negative impact on rUK must also be decided by the people of rUK.
Or do you think my thoughts are somehow undemocratic perhaps?

*Edit*
From everything I've heard Salmond spouting so far it sounds very much like me sharing a house with a mate then he moves out and is expecting me to be guarantor for his rent with his landlord.

a reply to: grainofsand


The UK is not going to dictate upon anything regards Scottish independence. If our independence is going to affect the rest of the UK negatively then we will take that into consideration. One negative impact might be the oil revenue although according to some it amounts to nothing. Another might be if we ditch the pound perhaps after independence you will be begging us to keep it.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: helldiver
What type of pound do you mean though?
A pound like most of Cambodia uses the US dollar without a currency union, but is subject to economic changes outside of the control of the Cambodian government?
Or a pound which is in a formal currency union which the Bank of England underwrites and is then at risk of any economic issues which happen to go on in Scotland?

Or do you want a Bank of England & Scotland to jointly underwrite this shared currency?
Doesn't really sound like independence to me, but one thing is for sure, if Scotland wants a situation which could potentially result in negative consequences for rUK after independence then I would be one of the first calling for a referendum for us in rUK to be part of the democratic decision making process.
Scotland cannot have it's cake and eat it, if a decision is made to leave the union (and all the perceived benefits of the union) then any subsequent decisions which may have a negative impact on rUK must also be decided by the people of rUK.
Or do you think my thoughts are somehow undemocratic perhaps?

*Edit*
From everything I've heard Salmond spouting so far it sounds very much like me sharing a house with a mate then he moves out and is expecting me to be guarantor for his rent with his landlord.

The latter of course, for the benefit of all. And the irony of your statement (deliberate?) is that as far as risk is concerned they would largely be the same risks Scotland currently faces as part of the UK.

I would that as it stands Scotland can have its cake but England eats it. Not the Uk, England.

a reply to: midicon
Perhaps, but do you really expect the rest of us in the UK to allow Scotland to dictate anything to us?
It is a two way street if you choose to leave the union, neither side can dictate the terms, and certainly not about only leaving the union but deciding to keep an economic connection with it if it suits Scotland.
Such details require agreement of both parties, especially when it is the one who is leaving is 'only leaving to a point', no, if you leave the union then you leave all of it and negotiate deals for the bits everyone can agree on we still want to be connected together.

Scotland is free to use the pound as Cambodian people universaly de-facto use the US dollar. Anything else can only be with the agreement of rUK after a vote for independence. Which bit of that do you disagree with?

a reply to: helldiver
I agree the latter would sound more sensible, and regarding risks, I can only comment on the risks to me in England after Scotland became a foreign nation. Friends or not, at that very point I'm only thinking of things from the viewpoint of how it affects my country. Scotland chose to leave the union, that means all of it and anything kept is open to new discussion between two parties deciding which formal links or part of the former union we would like to keep together.

a reply to: eletheia
Aye, Oil is a Burden....wish i had a Gallon for every time i,ve heard that mince spun in the past few years.
Suddenly we have a vote to keep 90% of the oil revenue for ourselves Oil is now a terrible affliction to those who have it.....


BOLLOCKS!!

originally posted by: alldaylong

A Scottish currency could carry the head of Salmond on it's notes, and Nicola Whatshername on the coins

That would be Sturgeon....easily remembered if ye call them the twa Fishes..

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Soloprotocol
Does it offend you that I do not wish to take the risk of accepting Scottish notes which I do not visually recognise in any way. Get over it man, I can accept whatever I like for payment of my services, and if I don't know the notes are not fake then I won't take them.
If I lose business from it then so be it, but it is a business decision I make, which if it causes you some emotional distress that is unfortunate, but I shall not worry about that too much.
Most sole-traders and small businesses I know won't take Scottish notes down here, take them to Tesco's or whatever who can afford the hit if they are fake.

*Edit*
And you won't hear me bitching and suffering any emotional distress if I'm in Scotland and a small Scottish business does not want to take my notes issued by the Bank of England. It is a business decision, nothing more. I would just go to the nearest ATM to get Scottish notes, and there would be no tears running down my face as if I have been belittled. But then, I don't generally look to seeing myself as a victim in life.

"God damn the pedantic Welsh"- Mark E. Smith, lyricist

originally posted by: helldiver
You missed the point. The pound is Scotlands currency plain and simple..

You are wrong. From the Sterling Wiki.

"As the central bank of the United Kingdom which has been delegated authority by the government, the Bank of England sets the monetary policy for the British Pound by controlling the amount of money in circulation. It has a monopoly on issuance of banknotes in England and Wales, and regulates the amount of banknotes issued by a seven authorized banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland."

It is totally controlled by the Bank of England. They have the ability to redraw the authorisation of Scottish banks to issue Sterling.

originally posted by: cyberheater

originally posted by: helldiver
You missed the point. The pound is Scotlands currency plain and simple..

You are wrong. From the Sterling Wiki.

"As the central bank of the United Kingdom which has been delegated authority by the government, the Bank of England sets the monetary policy for the British Pound by controlling the amount of money in circulation. It has a monopoly on issuance of banknotes in England and Wales, and regulates the amount of banknotes issued by a seven authorized banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland."

It is totally controlled by the Bank of England. They have the ability to redraw the authorisation of Scottish banks to issue Sterling.

But the fact is they wont.....yeah, like they are going to tell England's biggest trading partner to **** off... got to laugh at all this bollocks it's not your pound scary stories...if we become independence we will reach and agreement to continue using what is rightfully ours as we helped build it up into the what it has become today.

a reply to: grainofsand

Professor David Simpson, a Harvard-educated economist who has worked for the UN, World Bank, European Commission and Standard Life, told the committee that a currency union is likely, however.

In a written submission, he said: "A currency union based on sterling remains the most likely outcome following independence because it is in the best interests of not just Scotland but of England as well.

"It has been suggested that to work properly, a currency union requires political union, but the historical experience of those monetary unions between sovereign states that have been successful provides evidence to the contrary.

"It would be quite possible for Scotland to keep the pound following independence without entering into any formal currency union.

"Indeed, this would not only be possible but, if Scottish interests alone were to count, it would be desirable.

"The Bank of England would not act as a guarantor for Scottish banks or the Scottish Government.

"This is an advantage, not a disadvantage. It was precisely the implied promise of a bailout from the European Central Bank that allowed so many eurozone banks and governments to get themselves into a crisis of excessive debt."

Sunday Herald.

The facilitation of such a split is complicated and everyone will be involved...what is the big deal? Nobody is suggesting otherwise and nobody is dictating anything. The question is do we want independence? It isn't up to anyone else and if we vote for it we will have it.

originally posted by: cyberheater

originally posted by: helldiver
You missed the point. The pound is Scotlands currency plain and simple..

You are wrong. From the Sterling Wiki.

"As the central bank of the United Kingdom which has been delegated authority by the government, the Bank of England sets the monetary policy for the British Pound by controlling the amount of money in circulation. It has a monopoly on issuance of banknotes in England and Wales, and regulates the amount of banknotes issued by a seven authorized banks in Scotland and Northern Ireland."

It is totally controlled by the Bank of England. They have the ability to redraw the authorisation of Scottish banks to issue Sterling.

For crying out loud! Question: what is the currency of Scotland?

Come on, you can do it. I'll give you a hint: its the same as Wales, NI and Englands.

a reply to: Cruithneach
Haha that did make me chuckle!
Try being a Welshman living a couple of decades in England...I know every sheep joke there is and enjoy the banter after developing some sick comebacks lol

Seriously though, I will be a little sad if my Scottish mates become foreign citizens, I've always loved our disfunctional family which is the UK. I was in France many years ago and laughed when a French guy at a bar called me a sheep-shagger (France knows us through rugby) and my English mate joked back that only he can call me that coz we're the same nation family so any insults have to have a UK slant instead.

Yep, I'll be sad if I can't walk to the beach, turn left or right and eventually get back to the same place without ever crossing an international border.

Well I am Scottish,

And I am voting no,
If you look at england wales and scotland its obvious they should be one country.
But playing devils advocate The Bank of England was founded principally by Charles Montagu and William Paterson a merchant from dumfries so Scotland could claim heritage to half the Bank of England at least, ha ha.

a reply to: midicon
It appears we agree then

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: Cruithneach
Haha that did make me chuckle!
Try being a Welshman living a couple of decades in England...I know every sheep joke there is and enjoy the banter after developing some sick comebacks lol

Seriously though, I will be a little sad if my Scottish mates become foreign citizens, I've always loved our disfunctional family which is the UK. I was in France many years ago and laughed when a French guy at a bar called me a sheep-shagger (France knows us through rugby) and my English mate joked back that only he can call me that coz we're the same nation family so any insults have to have a UK slant instead.

Yep, I'll be sad if I can't walk to the beach, turn left or right and eventually get back to the same place without ever crossing an international border.

I'm sure travel will be pretty lenient though, probably similar to the EU thing where they have free movement over the borders.