Ebola: Facts, Opinions, and Speculations.

a reply to: alexball

Many think a bunch of terrorists and serial killers started the epidemic in West Africa. ....Or don't you think West Africans count as victims?

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: ikonoklast

Whoever said they don't cough or sneeze? Even the CDC says they can cough or sneeze. Everyone coughs and sneezes every now and then...

The coughing/sneezing however is not caused by ebola as Ebola does not effect the respiratory system. It's a secondary infection that usually brings on those symptoms, caused by a weakened immune system.

That is why there is a recommended 6 foot safe zone around a patient, to prevent droplet transmission.

I've seen similar statements in the news, but you're right, I could have worded that point about coughing and sneezing better. A lot of info posted about Ebola transmission has been updated lately, but there is still info such as the CDC infographic Facts about Ebola that could give many an over-simplified impression of how Ebola can spread.

For example, most people probably haven't read the many debates on ATS about the differences between airborne transmission and droplet transmission. And the CDC's statement that, "Ebola only spreads when people are sick. A patient must have symptoms to spread the disease to others," is simply false. Survivors of Ebola can transmit Ebola through semen long after they no longer have symptoms.

I think the list in my post supports my point. Telling a patient they don't have Ebola and sending them home without testing because they don't have one or more expected symptoms is dangerous. Recent cases in Dallas and Madrid where patients were initially sent home prove the danger is real. I don't know what the solution is when the early symptoms are so common and possibly not all present, but it's obviously a big problem.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: ikonoklast

No warm fuzzies there.

Thanks for the information.

You're welcome.

Definitely no warm fuzzies. An educated guess would be that one of the ways Ebola manages to spread despite limitations in transmission vectors is that it is very difficult to recognize and correctly diagnose in the early stages.

a reply to: ikonoklast

Exactly, I'm furious with how this is being handled. I've written my local and state reps, I recommend EVERYONE do the same.

The people have to make the powers act.

2014 and people still believe the government, even after all it's lies? Pretty amazing that the tax-payers are paying for their own demise.

originally posted by: raymundoko
a reply to: ikonoklast

Exactly, I'm furious with how this is being handled. I've written my local and state reps, I recommend EVERYONE do the same.

The people have to make the powers act.

They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, so I think expecting politicians to handle things better is insane.

The first news stories I read today were about the second case of Ebola in Dallas. The next story was about how when the President heard there was a second case of Ebola in Dallas, he immediately called the CDC and told them to do a better job. Then he paused very briefly so a limited number of press representatives could take a photo of him (through the windows of the Oval Office) posing on the phone before hurrying off to another golf game.

That's not a joke. He made it a photo op. And the press was reporting it as if the President did a great thing, delaying his golf for a little while to take immediate action to halt the spread of Ebola.

So I guess I would restate your last line as "The people have to act." If people forget that they can innovate and take action without waiting for government to take care of them, we're probably doomed. Someone must have some brilliant ideas somewhere!

Anyone know the status of Louise Troh, and the other people that were in the apartment with Thomas Duncan? Or the airline marshall who was stabbed in the neck at the Liberian airport?

What on earth is this? A piss poor excuse. If emergency personnel need to get in and out fly them in on special or military planes. I swear they think we're stupid.

Should all air travel out of the affected region be banned?

While some members of Congress have called for a complete ban, officials in the health care field say that would be counterproductive. Flights from the three international airports in the hot zone have already slowed to a trickle, Gendreau says. “Travel is really down, but if you shut it down completely, the people who need to be there [to fight the disease] can’t get in." Above all, the public needs to keep this in context, he says. The Ebola outbreak “has been going on since March and flights weren’t curtailed until more than five months later. “You have had half a year of this and you can count on your hands the people who have gotten it outside of West Africa,” he says. [Source]

As to that last line? So far.

a reply to: ~Lucidity



Is there a line to punch that guy in the face?

a reply to: CatLady3912

The air Marshall was a botched robbery, no Ebola. The syringe contained a sedative.

Me and my girlfriend were having a discussion over this case

She had one hell of an original thought and is investigating what she can find on it..

This is a conspiracy site (keep this in mind the Motto Deny ignorance and then be Mark Twain)

1) What if Duncan was not Duncan?

She is looking into a possibility or two over different ways this could be true.. (keep in mind this is EBOLA SPECULATION) the possibility is from something that caught her attention over them calling him Eric.. She is looking at the idea he may have been using a different name.. A son of his..

Understand this is not fact.. This is a thought she is looking into, and their is a difference

a)this made me think myself

what if the person who died never existed?
Mind you this is not far left field.. This is the highway going to the stadium.. It is a thought..


I can hear some of the thoughts on this
All I can say is we really need an investigative protocol to be taught here.. (hint mods.. hint hint..)

All I have is the scientific method
Problem
Hypothesis
Experiment
Observation
Conclusion
rinse and repeat

I am waiting to see how she responds and what she finds

a reply to: ripcontrol

Some unanswered questions so far...

1) What if Thomas Eric Duncan is not really Thomas Eric Duncan?
1a) What if he used a family members information to come here?
2a) 20ish years ago his application was denied while his girlfriend and son's was approved. why? He was supposedly a refugee so he should have qualified for asylum status.
2) How did he afford this trip and all costs associated ( Ie. visa and passport ) with coming here when he live in squalor?
2a) When did he apply/ get approved for his recent visa?
2b) when did he purchase his plane tickets?
2c) Did the family send him money?
3) I find it coincidental that he rekindled a relationship with his son's mother recently after two decades. And suddenly they were getting married??
4) If you were leaving a disease ridden country why would you help take a person to not one but two Ebola clinics??
4a) why would you not protect yourself to decrease risk so not to potentially take this disease with you to the States?
5) Is the girlfriend/son here legally, on a visa, or gained citizenship?
5a) if on visas are the visas up to date?
5b) Were they here on refugee status?
6)The girlfriend was living in low income housing, so does this mean she was on welfare/food stamps?
6a) IF on food stamps, then why was there no food in the apartment and they needed aid?
7) Why now, after 20 ish years, did he decided to come to the US. Why not sooner if they were in love.

Here's one article I could find on who he was:
Who Was Thomas Eric Duncan? A Man Who Was Loved And In Love

NOTE: These questions do not represent my personal views. Just going over every possible angle. There are just too many holes in the current time line. Feel free to add your own questions to the list.

Family, friends remember Ebola victim Thomas Eric Duncan

Thomas Eric Duncan, the first Ebola patient diagnosed in the United States, grew up next to a leper colony in Liberia and fled years of war before later returning to his country to find it ravaged by the disease that ultimately took his life Wednesday.

leprosy and Ebola are not the same unless they treat it at a leper colony. Is this what they are calling the Ebola clinics? Don't know much about leper colonies it's just odd wording that could led to misunderstandings...

He came to attend the high-school graduation of his son

I thought his son was in college?? A freshman at Angelo State University??

"His son had told his mother, 'I want to see my dad. Can we help my dad to come?' And they fixed his papers to come to this country,"

Fixed how? Lied, forged, or just helped him fill out?

When the camp closed in 2013, Duncan returned to Liberia, to the same area where he'd attended high school -- now a slum wracked by poverty and disease -- and into a small room in a private home, Wureh said. He took a job with Safeway Cargo, FedEx's shipper in Liberia, as the general manager's chauffeur.

But a year later, he was summoned to the U.S. Duncan had recently confided, Kwenah said, that he "wanted to marry that girl in Dallas.

Did she become a citizen and thought by getting married the application process would be easier/quicker?

"We thought that because he was in America, he was safe, that he would be the one Liberian to survive," Kwenah said.

Does this mean they knew or suspected something?? Did Mr. Duncan call/email and tell them of his experience with the pregnant girl? Why would you word it that way unless you knew the girl had had Ebola?

Note: Depending on source the son's name is being reported as Karsiah Eric Duncan but on the San Angelo, TX website his name is listed as Eric Karsiah Duncan Jr. Found that odd. Source

originally posted by: blackcatmagic

He came to attend the high-school graduation of his son

I thought his son was in college?? A freshman at Angelo State University??

Another article clears that up.....

Karsiah Duncan, who also goes by Eric, had invited his father to Texas this summer to attend his high school graduation. The visa didn't come through until August, relatives said. He had not seen his father since he was 3 years old, when he and his mother immigrated to the U.S. The elder Duncan stayed behind in Africa.

rant: Would it kill them to all get on the same page. Are there any real journalist left??

originally posted by: alexball
Terrorists and serial killers have been presented with a unique opportunity:
To spread a disease where the vector is still unknown and there is no treatment. This chance can be abused by anyone who has an agenda against the Western people. It just takes a madman who, after reaching for his gun - thinks - "maybe I'll pay a visit to Liberia first".

I cannot be the only one to acknowledge this possibility can I?

The difference between genius and insanity is a very fine line.

Perhaps this Ebola outbreak was the work of an apocalyptic/biblical individual?

Not that I'm going to quote a biblical reference. Its just something to ponder about.

a reply to: tinkortwim

Jani Beg of the Mongol horde deliberately spread the Black Plague into Europe by catapulting infected bodies into the Milan-controlled port-city of Caffa.

I believe the next cold war (not necessarily this rehash against Putin) may be marked by biological, not nuclear, weapons.

a reply to: alexball

I used this exact analogy in conversation yesterday. Ebola could be a great way for Terrorists to wage biological warfare.

Although the disease is not as easily spread as people think, if a symptomatic person got into the country and went crazy in a mall, airport etc, we'd see an uncontrollable influx of ebola into city centers. While it wouldn't likely spread nationwide, we could potentially see large areas of cities decimated.

a reply to: raymundoko

Rayray, here you go:

originally posted by: Olivine
The question and answer portion is beginning now. UStream direct link

The previous speaker, Dr. Micheal Osterholm, just concluded his talk with the following tidbits:

He was given permission to divulge the following, although he has known for a few weeks: (i'm paraphrasing)
Ebola researchers in Winnipeg took a sample of Ebola from Guinea six weeks ago and gave it to macques.
The strain was unlike anything they had ever seen and they are extremely worried.

Secondly, he says it is disingenuous for officials to say that this strain is not transmissible through the air. We just don't know for certain.

He went on to say that we are giving the fever symptom too much priority. He stated it is a fact that , a substantial percentage of people who die from ebola never showed a fever over 101.5 ° F.

Lastly, the virus is control right now--not us.

Sobering comments.

Please, I encourage all of you able to watch this to do so.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

I've been watching that since it started. He said the research with the macaques was not yet complete. It looks like that person took a bit too much leeway with their paraphrasing...

He also said almost all have a fever, but few have HIGH fever. High fever is considered anything over 101.5.

Nobody has ever said symptoms require a high fever...many people in Africa consider symptoms to start as soon as a fever starts, no matter the grade. He said too much emphasis is being put on looking for a high fever by medical personnel, AKA the nurses in Dallas who turned Duncan away when he only had a low grade fever.

The Nurse who was just quarantined was quarantined with a 99 fever I think. I'll try and get the news article that linked the info. As soon as ANY symptoms start you can transmit the disease, it is in your fluids at that point and no longer just your blood.

Also see this:

www.sciencenews.org...

They are doing a NEW study, however it is with the same strain, so I am not sure what the new study is looking to accomplish.

a reply to: blackcatmagic

1) They do not call Ebola Leprosy. He grew up next to a Leper colony. He came back to Liberia while it was being ravaged by EBOLA the disease which eventually took his life.

2) Fixed just means they took care of his visas and travel papers on this side. It is much easier for travelers to get a visa if family or friends on the US side handle them.

3) I think they knew full well he might be infected, and they were hoping he would be taken care of and survive in the USA. I think that is why he was fully quarantined in the house with his family friends. So far none of them have shown symptoms. Why else would they do that unless they knew.