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Will Putin Realize That Russia Holds The Cards ?

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posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 07:51 AM
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a reply to: john666




Reports of Russia’s military build-up on Ukraine border groundless - Moscow


And what exactly would you expect RT to say?

Do you think they are going to bite the hand that feeds them?

Show me something that confirms that which doesn't come from RT and you might have something, until then just more propaganda from Russian run media.



Moscow itself is saying that "Reports of Russia’s military build-up on Ukraine border groundless", AND THEY WOULDN'T BE SAYING THAT, IF THEY WERE ON THE BRINK OF INVADING UKRAINE!


Just like they said there weren't Russian troops sent to Crimea, and we see how that ended up didn't we.





posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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Double post
edit on 7-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 10:23 AM
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originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04


originally posted by: BornAgainAlien


originally posted by: tsurfer2000h



a reply to: BornAgainAlien

















No, it`s not, Kiev forces just need to withdraw from Eastern Ukraine.











You do understand that it is still part of the country of Ukraine and they have the right to fight terrorists on that soil.







And yes the separatists can be considered terrorists.








Sure, an during WWII Europe was invested with terrorists, only they were called resistance.


Well as soon as you can show me what country Ukraine invaded we can continue that line of discussion. If you can't, I suggest you end it.




HAHAHA, you guys are cracking me up !

I will take that to mean you got served and have no response.


To OccamsRazor04

Wrong again with your assumptions...

I just had a genuinely laugh about it.
edit on 7-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien




You act like I`m part of the Russian government...?

I have nothing to do with them !



I never said you were did I?



Why doesn`t the EU/US/Kiev stop fighting against them ?


Because it is Ukraine and they have the right to protect their sovereignty against all who want to change that including those in the east.

Why doesn't Russia stop the separatists from continual fighting, as they are the ones supplying them with military hardware?



And I`m not that stupid not to know that Kiev was the one going on with fighting


And who didn't allow the first cease fire...the separarists.

And you should know that Russia has sent in their own people to lead the separatists...so they are becoming more involved.

news.nationalpost.com...< br />
So they aren't looking for a cease fire or they wouldn't be changing the leadership from Ukranians to Russians if they were.


Turning things around doesn`t make it true.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Turning things around doesn`t make it true.


What am I turning around...do tell.

And lying doesn't make it true, but Russia insists on doing it anyway.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 10:49 AM
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originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: BornAgainAlien




Turning things around doesn`t make it true.


What am I turning around...do tell.

And lying doesn't make it true, but Russia insists on doing it anyway.


- First of all you seemed to think only Kiev has a right to defend itself, anyone else doens`t have any rights in your opinion

- Sure they were looking for cease fire and a good place in the Ukraine (see Gallup poll from before EU/US), but hey, they just needed to be slaved



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




- First of all you seemed to think only Kiev has a right to defend itself, anyone else doens`t have any rights in your opinion



Let me see if I read this correctly...

Now you don't think Kiev has the right to defend it's sovereign territory against an armed separatists movement being backed by another country?

In my opinion they do have the right to defend themselves, but they don't have the right to consider themselves a free area because Russia said they should be...last time I checked eastern Ukraine was still part of Ukraine not Russia.



- Sure they were looking for cease fire and a good place in the Ukraine (see Gallup poll from before EU/US), but hey, they just needed to be slaved


Would you care to elaborate more as you are not clear as to what your trying to say.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

- All I said was Eastern Ukraine people have also the right to defend themselves

- The majority of Ukrainian people wanted to be independent (see link of Gallup poll (page 2)) , but EU/US wanted to have none of that, get your facts straights before discussing something please



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:07 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




- The majority of Ukrainian people wanted to be independent (see link of Gallup poll (page 2)) , but EU/US wanted to have none of that, get your facts straights before discussing something please


Somewhat like this...


New Poll finds only 15 percent in Eastern Ukraine want to join with Russia


www.pbs.org...

www.vox.com...


Among Ukrainians, 77% say Ukraine should remain united, compared with 14% who think regions should be permitted to secede if they so desire. In Ukraine’s west, which includes the central region around Kyiv (Kiev), as well as portions of the country that border Poland, Slovakia and Hungary, more than nine-in-ten (93%) think their nation should remain unified. A smaller majority (70%) in the country’s east – which includes areas along the Black Sea and the border with Russia – also prefer unity. Only in the breakaway territory of Crimea do more than half (54%) voice support for the right to secede.


www.pewglobal.org...

Now what was that about someone getting their facts straight.

Want to try again?


And here is another article for some added truth...

www.newrepublic.com...

Enjoy....
edit on 7-8-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The Gallup poll (it`s an American, so no propaganda) from before the troubles show clearly most Ukrainians wanted to stay independent, so they didn`t wanted to be part of the EU and Russia...so stop trying to make it look like they wanted to be part of the EU.



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




The Gallup poll (it`s an American, so no propaganda) from before the troubles show clearly most Ukrainians wanted to stay independent, so they didn`t wanted to be part of the EU and Russia...so stop trying to make it look like they wanted to be part of the EU.


See now you want to try and twist what you said and you can't.

I just showed you that most Ukrainians do not, and did not want to be part of Russia, as they want to stay part of a united Ukraine, so I have no idea where you, or why you mention the EU as it has nothing to do with what you tried to say I was wrong about.

Now that you have tried to backtrack do you still want to insist I " get your facts straights before discussing something please " because in fact you are the one who needs to get your facts straight.

Oh and btw you may want to learn why the Ukraine wanted to get Yanukovich out of office.

And Ukraine citizens did want to be part of the EU, and not part of the repressive Russia.

And you may want to read this...


On Nov. 21, the Ukrainian government decided to cancel plans to seek an association agreement with the European Union, which would have led to Ukraine’s economic integration into the continental bloc but stopped short of membership. The decision sparked mass protests reminiscent of the Orange Revolution nine years ago against alleged electoral fraud in the country’s 2004 presidential election. The E.U. was ready to sign a trade and cooperation agreement at a summit in Vilnius, Lithuania, for the Eastern Partnership, which governs the relationship between the E.U. and six former Soviet republics, including Ukraine. In response to the decision, 100,000 Ukrainians who support further European integration have set up tents in the center of Kiev, Ukraine’s capital, and plan to demonstrate until President Viktor Yanukovych signs the agreement.


america.aljazeera.com...
edit on 7-8-2014 by tsurfer2000h because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

The Gallup poll clearly shows the majority of Ukrainians wanted to be independent.

The Separatists are fighting to be independent, they are actually doing what the majority of the Ukrainians wanted, so they fight for what they believe in...it`s simply a big fat lie they wanted to be part of the EU, despite the Western region of the Ukraine is more pro EU (there`s a huge difference being more pro West/EU, than actually wanting to be part of it). The protest were instigated by EU/US after the deal to have more influence went bust, just like in `04.

Is it really so few Americans are ignorant about those facts ?

It seems not much has changed in 11 year time, back than a small majority of Americans supported the call to go to war in Iraq, But in the rest of the world (all over the world), 90% was against it, and only few % were for it (there were also undecided). The situation is now about the same with who`s responsible for the Ukraine war.
edit on 7-8-2014 by BornAgainAlien because: (no reason given)



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 02:35 AM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien




The Gallup poll clearly shows the majority of Ukrainians wanted to be independent.


Look you have already been shown that Ukraine wanted to be part of the EU, and yes they want to be independent from Russia.



The Separatists are fighting to be independent, they are actually doing what the majority of the Ukrainians wanted, so they fight for what they believe in...it`s simply a big fat lie they wanted to be part of the EU, despite the Western region of the Ukraine is more pro EU (there`s a huge difference being more pro West/EU, than actually wanting to be part of it).


You do understand that the separatists are fighting because Russia had come in and stirred the pot, Russia never intended to do anything for the East and it shows...why do you think the separatists are losing ground especially after the MH 17 downing.

And Ukraine did want to be part of the EU and Yanukovich screwed that up because his Russian handlers said no, which is one of the reasons they wanted him gone.



It seems not much has changed in 11 year time, back than a small majority of Americans supported the call to go to war in Iraq, But in the rest of the world (all over the world), 90% was against it, and only few % were for it (there were also undecided).The situation is now about the same with who`s responsible for the Ukraine war.


See why is it that those backing Russia in this conflict keep referring to Iraq and Syria as if those have any bearing whatsoever on Ukraine?

America is not the ones who started this, as you seem to not pay attention to what RUssia was doing behind the scenes with their man Yanukovich, but it's just easier to say the west caused this because hey the west is responsible for everything wrong in the world...yet most want what the west has which is ironic.



The protest were instigated by EU/US after the deal to have more influence went bust, just like in `04.


Just a little on this...Yanukovich was for signing the deal with the EU only his main backers the Russians didn't want it so he didn't sign as a way to keep them happy and in the end they screwed him too. DO some research and learn as it will help you in the end.



posted on Aug, 8 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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a reply to: tsurfer2000h

All you do is convince me you have some serious brain distortions, you`re twisting every fact to suit your needs...

Good luck with it



posted on Aug, 11 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: BornAgainAlien

Yes, the EU is hesitant on sanctions, but don't forget that the EU version of "Drill, Baby, Drill!" relies heavily on Vladimir and the Russians.



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