ATS does it again, jumps to conclusions and breaks a leg doing so.

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte
Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

Who's currently shooting rockets at Great Britain?

If UK were to Occupy say Ireland I could see the Irish causing trouble.

Oh, wait.

Taggart

Is there a morality in crushing an enemy that attacks you on your soil, then, once you are comfortable, decrying other sovereign nations when they crush theirs?

Dresden, anyone? What about the big one - Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

Harte

Wait, so actions of the UK and US government in the 40's in a time of world war make it such that no one should criticise little old Israel for war crimes?
Maybe if Churchill was still alive and decrying what Israel are doing you may have a point.

Also did our government build a wall and put japan on a diet?

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte
Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

Who's currently shooting rockets at Great Britain?

If UK were to Occupy say Ireland I could see the Irish causing trouble.

Oh, wait.

Taggart

Is there a morality in crushing an enemy that attacks you on your soil, then, once you are comfortable, decrying other sovereign nations when they crush theirs?

Dresden, anyone? What about the big one - Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

Harte

Wait, so actions of the UK and US government in the 40's in a time of world war make it such that no one should criticise little old Israel for war crimes?
Maybe if Churchill was still alive and decrying what Israel are doing you may have a point.

Also did our government build a wall and put japan on a diet?

No Japan knew when they could not win and surrendered. They did not keep sending their people off to be slaughtered. Ask yourself, was the wall built at the start of the conflict, or was it built later when Palestinians refused peace and kept sending in suicide bombers?

originally posted by: flice
Is this a terrorist?

Is this a terrorist?

Is this a terrorist?

Is this a terrorist?

Is this a terrorist?

Islam Dar Ayyoub, 14

He said "sign it".
I said "I don't speak hebrew, can you read it aloud to me?"
He said "it's your release paper, you have to sign it."
Afterwards I found out it was a prewritten confession.

Is this a terrorist?


Is this a terrorist?


Are these terrorists?


I can't be sure about yours, but all mine are.

Harte

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Taggart

originally posted by: Harte
Israel should behave more like Westerners and stop bombing the crap out of people who shoot rockets at them.

You know, like Great Britain.

Oh, wait.

Harte

Who's currently shooting rockets at Great Britain?

If UK were to Occupy say Ireland I could see the Irish causing trouble.

Oh, wait.

Taggart

Is there a morality in crushing an enemy that attacks you on your soil, then, once you are comfortable, decrying other sovereign nations when they crush theirs?

Dresden, anyone? What about the big one - Hiroshima/Nagasaki?

Harte

Wait, so actions of the UK and US government in the 40's in a time of world war make it such that no one should criticise little old Israel for war crimes?

The "war crime" today is the same "war crime" as yesterday, isn't it?

originally posted by: TaggartMaybe if Churchill was still alive and decrying what Israel are doing you may have a point.

I wasn't making a point about hypocrisy, I was making a point about what happens when you shoot rockets at a nation with the capability to do something about it.

originally posted by: TaggartAlso did our government build a wall and put japan on a diet?

The diet? No, but we did blockade them. And, as a "diet," we made certain that two population centers lost a helluva lot of weight, collectively.
A wall? Only figuratively. We built a figurative wall around their capability to advance their agenda and future hegemony. Part of that "wall" still stands today.

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Violence negates victory.

War law was written to protect civilians. Are civilians being protected?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Harte

Violence negates victory.

War law was written to protect civilians. Are civilians being protected?

When have civilians ever been more protected than in this conflict?

Are we to put out of our minds the fact that the Israeli's make public their targets long before any attack, urge people to leave, drop leaflets to inform them, call them by phone and drop "door knockers," dud armaments that rattle on the roofs to let them know a strike is on the way?

Who in the hell does that, or ever has?

Harte

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Harte

Violence negates victory.

War law was written to protect civilians. Are civilians being protected?

When have civilians ever been more protected than in this conflict?

Are we to put out of our minds the fact that the Israeli's make public their targets long before any attack, urge people to leave, drop leaflets to inform them, call them by phone and drop "door knockers," dud armaments that rattle on the roofs to let them know a strike is on the way?

Who in the hell does that, or ever has?

Harte

I have made these same points numerous times. They largely get ignored.

a reply to: Harte

And again. The violence part?

No other way in your mind? That is how you wish to be treated?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Harte

And again. The violence part?

No other way in your mind? That is how you wish to be treated?

If Palestinians wish to be treated differently shouldn't they do something different?

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Harte

And again. The violence part?

No other way in your mind? That is how you wish to be treated?

I do not wish to have rockets fired at me, if that's what you mean.

If rockets were to be fired at me, you should definitely take for granted that I'm not gonna sit back and say "oh well, the international community (who, BTW are not having rockets fired at them) doesn't want me to do anything about this, so I'll sit here and wait to die.

Harte

I like how many are calling the palestinians the ones in the wrong, the ones that should change.
Do we just ignore that Israel has broke more UN resolutions than the rest of the planet combined.
Weird huh. How do the palestinians stop when Israel can never stick to an agreement.

Still war crimes are war crimes and only one side are killing children, not Hamas.

Lets say Hamas where using Kids as shields (Despite UN saying there is absolutely no truth in it)
Why are Israel blowing up the shields made from children? ask yourself that.

If there was a hostage situation in your local Mall, would the police go in a massacre all the children in the hope they get the bad guys? NO.. That is EXACTLY what Israel are doing.

Regardless of any history even in which the palestinians have been shafted left and right, ISRAEL are the ones
committing war crimes.

Cutting of power to millions - War crime
Bombing SIX UN safe Centres - War crime.
Killing Children and mothers - war crime.
Putting a whole collection of people on a diet purely because where they are. - War crime.

They are guilty of crimes against humanity and genocide.

has anyone seen the iron dome in action? no rockets are getting through that unless the people in charge of it fall asleep.

Many of the arguments posted on here are trying to say a good portion of the population are terrorists, in their OWN country, that is occupied by another country.

Perhaps some of you haven't followed this very much.

originally posted by: DrMescalito
I like how many are calling the palestinians the ones in the wrong, the ones that should change.
Do we just ignore that Israel has broke more UN resolutions than the rest of the planet combined.
Weird huh. How do the palestinians stop when Israel can never stick to an agreement.

Your neighbor constantly shoots at your house. You shoot back and a resolution condemning you is passed. They shoot again. Are you going to sit idly by in fear of resolutions, or will you defend yourself? I don't know about you, but they can pass all the resolutions they want, you shoot at me and I am coming for you.

It's easy, stop attacking Israel and they won't have security concerns. Keep attacking and they will.

As far as your war crimes ... Hamas is one responsible. So what should their punishment be?

JOHN GING: Yes, the armed groups are firing their rockets into Israel from the vicinity of UN facilities and residential areas, absolutely.

(End at 5:31)

www.cnsnews.com...

Then again when the UN finds weapons they do nothing .. except give them back to Hamas .. oh wait I mean "local police" ... who I am sure destroy them right away ...

arrrrghhhh!!

what is wrong with some people?!

no matter how we got here, it is the here and now.
i hear nothing but inflammatory rhetoric and bogus claims from hamas and pali supporters.
(dead kids, fireworks, genocide, the UN, land, zionists, prison, occupation, etc)

the israeli supporters have a bit more reason and facts to support them.

the israeli's took on multiple friggin armies several times and beat their asses.
why would the pali's still be around if israel wanted them dead?
why do 1 mil arab muslims live IN israel?
how many jews or christians live in gaza?

why would hamas want to keep attacking? beats the hell out of me, so i don't doubt those idiots use human shields to do exactly what some people, a lot of people actually, are doing right here on ATS and this thread.

what makes them more important than any other people getting killed around the world?

i'm sure if they put down the weapons, things would be so much better for them, if not, their fate is in their own hands.

originally posted by: 8675309jenny

originally posted by: stirling
Why not stop spewing your own version of hate........The IDF and Hamas have both committed war crimes.....
They care not one whit for either sides civilians...in fact seem to relish killing each other off whomever they find to kill.....kids adults old people , its all the same to them...its just a numbers game for the press.....a giant suck on the worlds sympathy tit.....
They can all go to hell in a handbasket for all I care...Time for the people to rise up and fling off the yoke of hatred on their own ........
Over 2000 dead and many more maimed....for three deaths.......an entire city of 1,8 million people without water, electricity, or basic medical treatment.....many Tens of thousands homeless,for three dead Israelis....
Sounds likew NAZI repression tactics to me....you kill one....we kill 100

NAILED IT!! I raise my glass to you sir!

How anyone can think 3 dead Israelis justifies this is absolutely beyond me. That Zionist Koolaid must be some 200proof stuff!

What sounds like a good number to you?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

What an insanely simplified version of what is actually going on.

"if someone shoots your house and you shoot their house.."

WHAT?

You obviously think hamas and women and children are all the same.

Try actually disproving my points instead of adding lazy rhetoric.

Do you agree with all the things I said are war crimes?

When you talk about war crimes it's not a matter of who started what, it's a matter of who is doing what ILLEGALLY.


You managed to write a whole wall of text not arguing a single point I made.

I don't know about you, but they can pass all the resolutions they want, you shoot at me and I am coming for you.

Even kids and mothers? You are no better then.

As for UN's resolutions that Israel have broken throughout the years, mostly were because of Israel not other armies.


One side has thousands of people being killed to the point the average age is 18.. 60% under that age.
Why? Because they've been wiped out.

Do you ever wonder why we don't hear from the palestinian people?
They have no Internet, they have no water, electric, homes, food.

Many of us are on the side of the people, you know the ones on a diet behind a big wall with no outside contact.

a reply to: Harte
Harte,

Title 18 USC 2441 was codified in 1996. How have those definitions changed? See here if you would like to know more.

Again, why do you support this? You seem to be lying to us now. Quo Bono? Civilians are never too be involved, ever. Those same civilians also have right to life, property, and protection under law, that you do. So, now, by your approved actions and mentality, we can skip the trials part and go directly to war for what could have been a staged murder. So much for all those pesky civilians in the way. Under the law, ignoring them in any military campaign, even if only one dies, is willful murder and a war crime.

Militarily your only purpose is to protect those laws. Title 10, see conduct unbecoming. You are to protect, not murder. And certainly not ignore our laws.

As for the international community, they are trying. Would you like to discuss recent in absentia trials going on, pertaining to that same subject? We don't hear much about those, do we?

Stop blocking the Hague and the ICC from doing its job.

Your template is broken.

originally posted by: Not Authorized
a reply to: Harte
Harte,

Title 18 USC 2441 was codified in 1996. How have those definitions changed? See here if you would like to know more.

Is it your position that similar constraints regarding civilians had never been in place prior to 1996?
See here if you would like to know more.

originally posted by: Not AuthorizedAgain, why do you support this? You seem to be lying to us now. Quo Bono? Civilians are never too be involved, ever.

So now I'm a liar? Typical.

And civilians are always and always will be involved.

originally posted by: Not Authorized Those same civilians also have right to life, property, and protection under law, that you do. So, now, by your approved actions and mentality, we can skip the trials part and go directly to war for what could have been a staged murder. So much for all those pesky civilians in the way. Under the law, ignoring them in any military campaign, even if only one dies, is willful murder and a war crime.

Here you seem to be unaware that the Palestinian civilians have been forced by their government to stand in front of, and protect, military positions from whence their government is launching illegal and deadly attacks on targeted civilian populations in a foreign sovereign nation.

Now, "gentlemen's agreements" regarding how war is to be fought are all well and good and quite high-minded. But they are also suicide to the side following them, if the other side isn't.

Hence the Dresden bombings and other examples I cited.

This is what happens when war happens. The accords laying out how to fight a war "legally" are what happens only when peace happens.

In other words, every, single such accord ever adopted by whatever "International Community" has fallen by the wayside when it came down to survival.

I've pointed out the extremes to which the Israeli's routinely go to help Palestinian civilians avoid the unfortunate but necessary military strikes that are required to stop the massacre of Israeli civilians. I've even asked posters to tell me what other political state in the history of Humanity has gone to such extents toward that end.

I note the conspicuous absence of any answer.

Harte

originally posted by: Harte I've pointed out the extremes to which the Israeli's routinely go to help Palestinian civilians avoid the unfortunate but necessary military strikes that are required to stop the massacre of Israeli civilians.

drivel. killing babies knowingly is not 'unfortunate but necessary', it's disgusting and criminal. and to which massacre of iraeli civilians in this conflict do you refer? the only massacre happening is that which Israel is daily carrying out in Gaza. please show me the reports i may have overlooked.

originally posted by: RoScoLaz4

originally posted by: Harte I've pointed out the extremes to which the Israeli's routinely go to help Palestinian civilians avoid the unfortunate but necessary military strikes that are required to stop the massacre of Israeli civilians.

drivel. killing babies knowingly is not 'unfortunate but necessary', it's disgusting and criminal. and to which massacre of iraeli civilians in this conflict do you refer? the only massacre happening is that which Israel is daily carrying out in Gaza. please show me the reports i may have overlooked.

11.000 rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza since 2005, when the Israelis gave the land over to Palestinian control.

Without missile defense, the war would be over already, state-sponsored (and explicitly stated) genocide complete.

You here are advocating for simply putting up with such outrageously illegal attacks on Israeli civilians.

When has this ever happened eolsewhere in the history of Humanity, where one state simply stands by while another continuously attacks them?

Harte

a reply to: Harte

Palestinian right of return. Do I need to spell it out for you? Israel doesn't belong. Palestine was to be a two state nation. Ben Gurion screwed that up by his declaration. War has taken hold ever since.

What religion has a concept of a scapegoat? Think that could apply with Ron Paul's statements about Hamas? Hmmmm? Open your eyes.

As for civilians, only murders kill innocent people. Then you wonder why the world is now perpetually waging war. Fool. You are the problem. You are defending profit margins and a warlike way of life, not me. And now, you want to hunt civilians down saying it will always be that way. Then, you turn around and justify it on top of it. Sick.

Anyone, who honors sanctity of life would never say what you said. Ever.

I think it is time for independent and internal military physiological evaluations for sadistic personality disorder. Your mentality is hostile towards life, and boarders insanity.

Are you a war criminal too? I think both does of this conflict are being war criminals. I'm thinking of people who do not want to play your evil games. Prove me wrong Harte. Allow war crimes to go forward, for both sides. They are guilty. Let it go.

Your war justification template is broken.

War, is unlawful. No more war.