ATS does it again, jumps to conclusions and breaks a leg doing so.

Funny how what, a week ago? People were saying that Hamas didn't doo'd it. Then 'suddenly,' some guy appears, and says "I did it," after how long? Rather convenient that they 'found' this fella at about the same time as they are facing possible war crimes? Absolutely no coercion on their parts? Sure.

a reply to: sheepslayer247 I am agreeing to this .
For every spark of hatered you send out...regardless of the reason,you start a fire and it is becoming out of control.
Perhaps if we judged less and supported more the hatered will subside long enough for a solution to come about.
I know when im in a postion of 'oppression' ,hatered has never helped me out.Now anger is understandable,but to have so much hate is not going to change hate ,we are the only ones who can change any of this.

originally posted by: stirling
Why not stop spewing your own version of hate........The IDF and Hamas have both committed war crimes.....
They care not one whit for either sides civilians...in fact seem to relish killing each other off whomever they find to kill.....kids adults old people , its all the same to them...its just a numbers game for the press.....a giant suck on the worlds sympathy tit.....
They can all go to hell in a handbasket for all I care...Time for the people to rise up and fling off the yoke of hatred on their own ........
Over 2000 dead and many more maimed....for three deaths.......an entire city of 1,8 million people without water, electricity, or basic medical treatment.....many Tens of thousands homeless,for three dead Israelis....
Sounds likew NAZI repression tactics to me....you kill one....we kill 100

So misinformation is still alive and well...The war did not start because of anyone getting kidnapped...The Gazinians started the war by relentlessly launching rockets at Israeli schools, synagogues, shopping malls, etc. in anticipation of murdering thousands of Israeli civilians while hiding behind women and children when they knew Israel would retaliate...

originally posted by: VoidHawk
Lets not forget that one side is being squeezed into an ever shrinking piece of land! I think they have a right to be a little bit annoyed! maybe even the right to fight for their lives?

"They throw rockets"
Maybe they'd stop if they could have some of their land back!

It isn't their land...Never was their land...It was not a state...There was no government...It was owned by whoever had the power to own it...The last to own it was the British...

There wasn't a state before the British owned it...Arabs, Jews and others lived on the land...No one made a claim to it...

originally posted by: dukeofjive696969
Dont worry poster there still a thread on ats that was proven a hoax, on top where the op still defended is lies by spewing more venom at people sickened by the death of so many inocent, i was told i am pro hamas because im pissed off at the death of children.

Just understand that ats has a big right wing oriented membership, and dont lose sleep over it.

Well are you pissed that Hamas has been doing its level best to kill thousands of Israeli kids??? Does that bother you that they are still trying??? Are you pissed that with Israel having no option but to stop these attacks toward their children that Hamas uses Palestinian children as human shields???

a reply to: Iscool
Thousands of Israeli kids have not died. Palestinian kids have. Many of them. But Oh it's because Hamas uses them as "human meat shields" and blah blah blah. Hamas has Mossad connections. The land was inhabited before the European Zionists got it through the Balfour declaration and moved in. Then they push all the inhabitants onto a little plot of land through murder, bulldozed homes, etc. and when the inhabitants strike back they call it "terrorism". Just who are the terrorists here, really? At the very least, for now, Israel needs to return to the 1967 borders. Then war crimes trials. No more aid money for Israel from America. The world should take all of Israel weapons except for guns. Same with Hamas. No more excuses. Zionism has been exposed. The world is watching

The kidnappers were speaking Hebrew.

originally posted by: Fylgje
a reply to: Iscool
Thousands of Israeli kids have not died. Palestinian kids have. Many of them. But Oh it's because Hamas uses them as "human meat shields" and blah blah blah. Hamas has Mossad connections. The land was inhabited before the European Zionists got it through the Balfour declaration and moved in. Then they push all the inhabitants onto a little plot of land through murder, bulldozed homes, etc. and when the inhabitants strike back they call it "terrorism". Just who are the terrorists here, really? At the very least, for now, Israel needs to return to the 1967 borders. Then war crimes trials. No more aid money for Israel from America. The world should take all of Israel weapons except for guns. Same with Hamas. No more excuses. Zionism has been exposed. The world is watching

The kidnappers were speaking Hebrew.

So if the Israeli's would have waited until after the tunnels were used to kill thousands of them as Hamas planned and as would have happened if they had fought this war after the Jewish new year, then you would be ok with the gazan death toll I presume? As opposed to all of the laws in your country which state that planning a murder and taking a concrete step towards achieving that plan makes you guilty of crime, you believe you always have to wait until after someone kills you for the law to be able to do something to them?

a reply to: hoth12

Link doesn't work..and I wouldn't be surprised with the great Intelligence Israel has..Didn't some top Hamas official son worked* for Mossad and told them a bunch of plans Hamas wanted to do? Don't be sooo quick to jump the gun lol..

a reply to: Iscool

The Balfour Declaration disagrees with you. Palestine, was to be given/used as a homeland for Jewish folk.

Israel formed in 1948 per declaration as a new state, which implies an old one existed. It then failed to produce a Constitution that was due by October 1, 1948.

My finger is still on the button.

OP, you are fighting a losing battle. For the most part, humans as a whole don't like being wrong. They will usually defend their position until the end, even if nothing supports their facts. And the more you oppose, the deeper they will dig their heels on.

And then on a site like this, multiply that times 10, since folks have -firmly- entrenched beliefs. You can show them a picture with a blue ball, and they will insist it is red, and it doesn't matter -what- you provide as proof. It's not even worth trying to convince folks, because it's an impossible task. Everything is a false flag, fabricated, the government, an evil agenda. There are no accidents on ATS - every event is obviously a fabricated event or a lie to cover something else up. Which of course, is ludicrous.. but if come here, just fully expect that.

Which sometimes is fun non-the-less.. but at the end of the day, all debating and bickering here is honestly ultimately fruitless and pointless.

The US uses "enhanced interrogation techniques" so you can bet Israel does. I can see in my minds eye, many an old, sickly Palestinian confessing to a list a mile long...they have been without basic human needs and food and supplies and electric and water and sewage for so long, thanks to Israels "humanitarian" actions, they are beyond weak now. I can envision this guy confessing to the killings of the 3 besides killing his neighbors dog, looking in the wrong direction relevant to Mecca, crapping on his prayer rug and coveting and "loving" his neighbors goat to make the pain of torture stop.

Besides, I thought the actual incident has been proven to be other than what was originally being put forth by Zionist PR. Their "stories' change by the second...sure is hard to keep up...even the liars can't seem to get it all straight anymore.

a reply to: shrevegal

they have been without basic human needs and food and supplies and electric and water and sewage for so long, thanks to Israels "humanitarian" actions, they are beyond weak now.

Isn't that what Mohammed did to capture cities and force conversion to Islam?

It's called a siege, and there's no reason to think it's particularly sinful.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777
I started a topic on this situation, hardly no replies, and shocked by some, although, I should know to expect it by now.

That is why I feel there are agendas out there because of this same thing. We could post 1000s of times about Africa and other places that make the whole Gaza event seem small in comparison, but they go unnoticed seemly to the lack of care, but boy do the posts fly when Israel does anything negative towards Gaza no matter the situation.

I personally understand that all the countries in the Middle East are extremist, including Israel. The only difference is the level and Israel is not the worst...that is about the best I would defend them since that is just the way it is over there no matter what country.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

I hope you rested well, the world puts many demands on our energy and attention.

I think there is a great deal of hope starting to shine.

I want it to be hope for a good thing. We'll see.

There was no need to attempt to trick me. I will always admit, willingly, that the complete truth of anything can not be known outside of Heaven. It is good to have doubt in beliefs which are false, but who among us believes that their beliefs are false? If they thought that, they would change them.

"Reasonable Doubt," is the standard used in American Courts for conviction of a crime. It is a very high standard. There are other standards. Further, 0+0+0+0+0=0

It is true that being hasty in making a judgment is not desirable. Unfortunately, there are occasions when speed is absolutely essential and decisions have to be made on limited information. That is especially true in war, as you recognized when you mentioned "The Fog of War."

Now, to thinking about racism? What is racism?

Again, I am speaking to you as a person. Fully respected. I value your opinion. You are person, just like me. Remember, I said "unknowingly". Does it fit?

Racism is the belief that all members of each race possesses characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

If you are asking me if I am racist, I will again say "no." If you are wondering whether another group, such as Hamas or the Israelis are racist, I can't tell.

But your definition of racism makes me a little uncomfortable. I believe that each race has different characteristics, generally. As examples, Asians are generally shorter than Europeans, and they have finer pores than Europeans who have finer pores than Africans. I have read that because Africans have a little different bone and muscle structure, they tend to excel in running and jumping. That same structure seems to hinder them in swimming.

I have read that the same genes which make Africans susceptible to sickle cell anemia, seems to help protect against malaria.

Africans may be better basketball players, but I don't see them as better people because of it. And, of course, nothing applies to everyone in a race, there are always exceptions.

Do you see this happening in this situation? Whenever I see "We are the Chosen People", is that a form of racism? Does the bill fit? There is additional words inside Racism, that also can be linked and further dived into.

I don't see that as racism, besides, if they are "Chosen People," it only makes sense to ask what they were chosen for. Historically, their life has not been pain free.

If my wife was Arab, how would she be treated? She is me. We are one.

I'm glad to hear that you are so attached to your lovely bride. If you were in Israel, I suppose you'd be treated the same way that the other 20% of the Arab non-Jewish population is treated. I suppose you'd be jumping in and out of shelters.

Now, that also gives me pause to what you said as well, as in your post above, you implied something, by claiming you do not "see how they are the same." Do you see the impression that you may be leaving with others? If you agree with it, is that a form or racism? By the textbook? Yes, it would be.

You misunderstood me. I was saying that Israel and Hamas can not be judged as equal in this situation. I was not talking about either individuals or races. An individual can say Hamas is better, or Israel is better, but I don't think saying they are absolutely equal in righteousness makes sense. It is not a racial thing

We are all Homo sapiens with rights. Including the Palestinians, even if we do not agree some aspects of their culture, they are still people. We can disagree with that culture, and try to show a better way, but we have no right to force that. None. They need to learn it for themselves.

I have difficulties with you here. You might recall the Thugs of India, their culture dictated assasination as a noble skill, and they killed many.

Don't misunderstand me here, I am only presenting someone else's point of view:

Be it so. This burning of widows is your custom; prepare the funeral pile. But my nation has also a custom. When men burn women alive we hang them, and confiscate all their property. My carpenters shall therefore erect gibbets on which to hang all concerned when the widow is consumed. Let us all act according to national customs.

Napier, William. (1851) History Of General Sir Charles Napier's Administration Of Scinde. (P. 35). London: Chapman and Hall [1] at books.google.com.

There are many moderates, not extremists, who are very forward thinking. Research some of the projects going on in Muslim countries. I was shocked at some of the environmental care being considered for an alleged backwards people.

Am I calling them backwards? But I might note that Muslim countries are far behind in obtaining Nobel Prizes in the Sciences.

The International Covenant was signed by Palestine less than four months ago. In reading it, it seems that Sharia law is a vast violation of the Covenant in itself.

I'm going to stop here, partially because of length and partially because it seems we are laying the groundwork for session of "Israel is worse than Hamas, they're criminals," versus "Hamas is worse than Israel, they're criminals." That is not going to be very productive.

Can you find another approach? Or is it essential to you to establish either Israel's guilt or a moral equivalence first?

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Dear Charles,

Again, all logical conclusions if you stop there. I apologize for the short answer. I disagree with some of the parts. What you describe, are all simply genetic traits, and indicative of a particular variation of our species. Remember, we are all homo sapien. At a fundamental level, we are the same. Each of us can breed with each other. This means we are genetically compatible.

Here is my question: Does it matter of our genetic differences? Think this, with every single sentence I written and posted above.

I would love to visit the Holy Land one day. Visiting Jerusalem. It is the City of Peace. In peace, and tranquility giving appropriate homage to our heritage out of respect.. and enjoying their rumored warm hospitality offered from both sides. But I can't do that, can I?

What do you think of my answer to my own question?

Respectfully, in my opinion I think this conflict is fundamentally fueled by racism. A claim, a fraudulent claim that crumbles after astute investigation, has been made.

No bashing.

Again, respectfully with love.

a reply to: Not Authorized

Dear Not Authorized,

A wonderful post . Thank you for having the patience and consideration to keep this going.

My agreement with you is sweeping. Genetic traits and racial composition have nothing to do with anything in my mind, although if one or both of the sides are using racism as motivating force, then it becomes pertinent to understand one of the reasons for the conflict. I don't care about racial differences, but I don't know what effect they're having there.

I would love to visit the Holy Land one day. Visiting Jerusalem. It is the City of Peace. In peace, and tranquility giving appropriate homage to our heritage out of respect.. and enjoying their rumored warm hospitality offered from both sides. But I can't do that, can I?

So would I like to visit there. I could, but I don't like the odds of death, imprisonment, or kidnapping. (Besides, I can't afford it.)

Respectfully, in my opinion I think this conflict is fundamentally fueled by racism. A claim, a fraudulent claim that crumbles after astute investigation, has been made.

Let's assume for the moment that you're absolutely correct. Does that mean they'll be killing each other until racism leaves their hearts?

Besides, I tend to think we're at the stage where each side is claiming "We're only shooting at you, because you shot at us." I'm not sure racism is a continuing cause, but you might be right.

No bashing.

I've never believed you were bashing, and I'm trying to match your restraint.

With respect,
Charles1952

originally posted by: g146541
I wonder if the Palestinian could even read the confession he signed.
We know the kidnapper spoke Hebrew, I wonder how the kidnappers Hebrew is??
Either way, 3 bully loudmouths get caught on the wrong side of the tracks...err concentration camp wall, and get scrubbed is nothing new.
You don't see very many white racist types hanging around in Harlem, especially after dark.

(Edit)
Besides, I thought the reason why the terrorists started in on Palestine was the rocket attacks.
Kind of makes the deaths of these 3 a non issue doesn't it?

I must have missed something somewhere..

Didn't the Israeli Government already acknowledge that they "knew", Hamas was not responsible for this act.

Now all of a sudden, just as Israel is looking pretty bad, they do a flip and find some poor patsy to confess in the hope of taking some international heat off them..

Are they that retarded to not know that the rest of the general population of the world would catch this...

Oh, I forgot, if you are not Jewish, your not intelligent or even human for that matter...lol

a reply to: Ironclad2000
It is not a matter of them not knowing, it is an old trick.
Throw all of the crap you can think of at a wall and hopefully the people just stop seeing the wall, but remember all of the crap.
None of the crap can hide the fact that israel is a rogue state and they murder innocents.

a reply to: hoth12

Thank the universe you brought this up....

It's not like the Israel security forces have ever made people confess anything that wasn't true.........................

Or that they would lie about or manufacture this individual and parade him around like they got their man.

You should really watch this in-partial report from the Gaza area. It's about how kids as young as 14 are being taken in the middle of the night from their homes by the IDF. Interogated and tried for crimes they might not even have committed (like throwing stone as IDF vehicles and so on).
The kids are then tortured, stung with electric batons and told "sign this... it's your release paper" only to find out that it was a pre-written confession in Hebrew which many of them don't speak.

www.dr.dk...

a reply to: hoth12
So I guess you think that Israel should have bomved Gaza rather than arrest the one allegedly guilty guy. I look forward to the days of bombing a whole people for the crimes of one or two people. I guess Hamas is also justified in rocket attacks for the Palestinian boy that was burned alive by Israeli extremists?


Get out of here with your non sense.